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Rare and optimistic view of unrated and 2* high school players that went on to become solid pros. We may have 3 soon with Moton, Davis and Terrell with legit shots at pro careers. Let's hope that the overlooked kids that Lester is bringing in can do the same or at least become key contributors to the team.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...000-012717

Best part is JJ Watt leaving for Wisconsin after CMU tried to move him to OT.

(01-28-2017 12:59 AM)WMUlaxer97 Wrote:  Rare and optimistic view of unrated and 2* high school players that went on to become solid pros. We may have 3 soon with Moton, Davis and Terrell with legit shots at pro careers. Let's hope that the overlooked kids that Lester is bringing in can do the same or at least become key contributors to the team.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...000-012717

Best part is JJ Watt leaving for Wisconsin after CMU tried to move him to OT.

People do realize that there are literally thousands of kids who are recruited and play college football every year that are 2 star and unranked, compared to the 20 or so 5 star kids. Yep. We are going to find some guys that turn out great. It's sometimes just about development. But most of the time, the kids are ranked good for a reason.

A legit question...and not trying to be a dick about it...

Is everyone burying their head in the sand or something? Did we not realize that as our recruiting rankings went up, we went from mediocre MAC team to a MAC champ and NY 6 bowl team? That was recruiting plus coaching.

If we think that Lester is going to get it done recruiting a bunch of diamonds in the rough, guys that haven't been offered by other FBS programs, guys that are only offered by GLIAC schools, then I got a piece of crap to sell you at Ferrari prices. It's not going to happen.

We should all be deeply disturbed by these last few offers. It's not a positive trend.

(01-28-2017 02:17 AM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 12:59 AM)WMUlaxer97 Wrote:  Rare and optimistic view of unrated and 2* high school players that went on to become solid pros. We may have 3 soon with Moton, Davis and Terrell with legit shots at pro careers. Let's hope that the overlooked kids that Lester is bringing in can do the same or at least become key contributors to the team.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...000-012717

Best part is JJ Watt leaving for Wisconsin after CMU tried to move him to OT.

People do realize that there are literally thousands of kids who are recruited and play college football every year that are 2 star and unranked, compared to the 20 or so 5 star kids. Yep. We are going to find some guys that turn out great. It's sometimes just about development. But most of the time, the kids are ranked good for a reason.

A legit question...and not trying to be a dick about it...

Is everyone burying their head in the sand or something? Did we not realize that as our recruiting rankings went up, we went from mediocre MAC team to a MAC champ and NY 6 bowl team? That was recruiting plus coaching.

If we think that Lester is going to get it done recruiting a bunch of diamonds in the rough, guys that haven't been offered by other FBS programs, guys that are only offered by GLIAC schools, then I got a piece of crap to sell you at Ferrari prices. It's not going to happen.

We should all be deeply disturbed by these last few offers. It's not a positive trend.

I agree with your general premise but I wouldn't worry that much about this class. If we're struggling to get players that FBS schools want next cycle then I would be wondering.

(01-28-2017 02:17 AM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  People do realize that there are literally thousands of kids who are recruited and play college football every year that are 2 star and unranked, compared to the 20 or so 5 star kids. Yep. We are going to find some guys that turn out great. It's sometimes just about development. But most of the time, the kids are ranked good for a reason.

A legit question...and not trying to be a dick about it...

Is everyone burying their head in the sand or something? Did we not realize that as our recruiting rankings went up, we went from mediocre MAC team to a MAC champ and NY 6 bowl team? That was recruiting plus coaching.

If we think that Lester is going to get it done recruiting a bunch of diamonds in the rough, guys that haven't been offered by other FBS programs, guys that are only offered by GLIAC schools, then I got a piece of crap to sell you at Ferrari prices. It's not going to happen.

We should all be deeply disturbed by these last few offers. It's not a positive trend.

I would like to know how many kids destined for FBS schools had committed prior to Lester being hired? How would anyone feel as a high school athlete or parent of that kid if a newly hired coach came up to the house at the last minute. I doubt any top tier, 2nd or 3rd tier talent would jump on board, coming off #15 & 1 loss season or not. Actually the flux from the staff turnover would make potential recruits more skeptical.
This process takes months to get a student athlete to commit to the next few years of their lives. A 4-5 year commitment to an 18 year old is an eternity. Not sure how we can judge given the extremely short timeframe to bring in players? Our coaches did not bring with them the connections to 3-4* recruits from high profile programs.
I think that retaining some of Fleck's commits and getting some that fill positions of need is the best we could've done and they did with a couple more to come. Beat MSU and the 2018 kids in the 6hr radius will be interested. Or at least challenge for the MAC. Less than 8 wins could set the program back badly.
We have been spoiled by extraordinary recruiting classes by G5 standards under fleck. Those are anomalies, but can happen again with further success on the field. But is certainly an unreal expectation for these circumstances.

(01-28-2017 02:17 AM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 12:59 AM)WMUlaxer97 Wrote:  Rare and optimistic view of unrated and 2* high school players that went on to become solid pros. We may have 3 soon with Moton, Davis and Terrell with legit shots at pro careers. Let's hope that the overlooked kids that Lester is bringing in can do the same or at least become key contributors to the team.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...000-012717

Best part is JJ Watt leaving for Wisconsin after CMU tried to move him to OT.

People do realize that there are literally thousands of kids who are recruited and play college football every year that are 2 star and unranked, compared to the 20 or so 5 star kids. Yep. We are going to find some guys that turn out great. It's sometimes just about development. But most of the time, the kids are ranked good for a reason.

A legit question...and not trying to be a dick about it...

Is everyone burying their head in the sand or something? Did we not realize that as our recruiting rankings went up, we went from mediocre MAC team to a MAC champ and NY 6 bowl team? That was recruiting plus coaching.

If we think that Lester is going to get it done recruiting a bunch of diamonds in the rough, guys that haven't been offered by other FBS programs, guys that are only offered by GLIAC schools, then I got a piece of crap to sell you at Ferrari prices. It's not going to happen.

We should all be deeply disturbed by these last few offers. It's not a positive trend.

Ahhhh the cubit days....really refreshing though

For anyone who believes that the sky has fallen, look at the other MAC recruiting classes per Rivals. To keep thing in perspective BGSU, Toledo and Ball St lead us by the slimmest of margins. Not at all because they much better talent coming in. BGSU has the same # of 3* kids but a 24 recruit class. Toledo has 1 more 3* and 22 commits. Ball St has 2 FEWER 3* but 4 more commits. CMU has had many more months on the recruiting trail and no coaching turnover & still would love to have our class.

The difference is that our '13, '14, '15 & '16 classes were stacked and will perform on the field. If we are relying on the 18+ Of this class to come in to perform this season we are in a world of hurt.

Closing Dellinger, Moment and Goddard and retaining Grant should not be underestimated.

The days of getting 13 three stars recuits are over.

I am of the opinion we should not try and use every available scholarship we have, just because we have them. Hold on to 4-5 of them and let it be known they are available for walk-ons who demonstrate performance in camp.

If you're gambling on diamonds in the rough let them demonstrate it at Spring or Fall camp-against athletes of Div 1A talent. Far better measure of their potential performance on the field than by videos or playing performance against HS talent.

It's been my observation that kids who come into camp as walk-ons, demonstrate performance and earn a scholy the hard way really make contributions for the program.

(01-28-2017 05:10 AM)New School Bronco Wrote:  The days of getting 13 three stars recuits are over.

I think we will be able to gauge that better once Lester and Co have a full year of recruiting under their belt.This time next year should give some evidence of their recruiting skill.Hopefully WMU has a sucessful 2017 so that the interest level amount the kids,will still be there for WMU. Given the circumstances that this staff had to work with and the short time frame,they have shown fairly well. They got some decent talent to committ to WMU. A fair number of 3 stars.

Fleck's first class was eighth in MAC and he had a month longer than Lester.

Plus he didn't have the previous coach poaching our commits.

Considering circumstances I suspect new staff will do fine on Signing Day.

Hope you don't mind a Huskies fan chiming in here. Things are much more interesting over here than they are for our board right now. It's a very chaotic, yet exciting time for WMU football, while a very dubious one for NIU. I've followed the Broncos a bit closer since their rise. The recruiting thing especially. A few thoughts:

While Flecks classes have been amazing, last years team had 16 two star players starting. The 2 star guys are always the foundation of all MAC teams. I know for us the success rate for 3 star kids is no better than it is for the 2. Oddly enough, nearly all of the all-time greats for us have been 2 star rated.

As far all time great players, it's usually takes one to make an all-time great MAC team. Ben-Miami, Moss-Marshall, Lynch-NIU, and Davis-WMU. The better MAC teams are very close in talent and sometimes a super-star sets them apart.

In regards to talent, Fleck's aura seemed to be built around his recruiting ability. Which is off the charts. But he was a extremely good at coaching fundamental, smart football. To me, people had the impression WMU just rolled the ball out and their P5 talent just ran circles around the other MAC schools. But like I mentioned, you had 16 two star starters. That's probably in line with what most MAC teams have. What made WMU so good was being incredibly efficient and playing mistake free ball. That was their key to success(and Davis). The Broncos won every T.O. contest in big games as well as committing the fewer penalties. That's almost always the key to winning. That and QB play. Terrell was a very efficient, great game manager. Very similar to Drew Hare in 2014 when he had 18 tds to 2 ints. Neither QB was a big-time play maker. But they made big plays when needed. Terrell played like a senior QB and a great leader.

I'm not disregarding the importance of having a highly rated recruiting class. I'd take an all 3 star class if we could get them, but I wouldn't over emphasize the impact it had on your past or future success. It's a part of it, but it's not THE only part of it. I'd be most concerned with Lester's ability to keep up the quality of coaching that Fleck brought. Next year there will be plenty of talent on the field(as far as ratings), it will be interesting to see if Lester can get the most out of it.

Excellent post, Squirrel.

(01-28-2017 12:09 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Hope you don't mind a Huskies fan chiming in here. Things are much more interesting over here than they are for our board right now. It's a very chaotic, yet exciting time for WMU football, while a very dubious one for NIU. I've followed the Broncos a bit closer since their rise. The recruiting thing especially. A few thoughts:

While Flecks classes have been amazing, last years team had 16 two star players starting. The 2 star guys are always the foundation of all MAC teams. I know for us the success rate for 3 star kids is no better than it is for the 2. Oddly enough, nearly all of the all-time greats for us have been 2 star rated.

As far all time great players, it's usually takes one to make an all-time great MAC team. Ben-Miami, Moss-Marshall, Lynch-NIU, and Davis-WMU. The better MAC teams are very close in talent and sometimes a super-star sets them apart.

In regards to talent, Fleck's aura seemed to be built around his recruiting ability. Which is off the charts. But he was a extremely good at coaching fundamental, smart football. To me, people had the impression WMU just rolled the ball out and their P5 talent just ran circles around the other MAC schools. But like I mentioned, you had 16 two star starters. That's probably in line with what most MAC teams have. What made WMU so good was being incredibly efficient and playing mistake free ball. That was their key to success(and Davis). The Broncos won every T.O. contest in big games as well as committing the fewer penalties. That's almost always the key to winning. That and QB play. Terrell was a very efficient, great game manager. Very similar to Drew Hare in 2014 when he had 18 tds to 2 ints. Neither QB was a big-time play maker. But they made big plays when needed. Terrell played like a senior QB and a great leader.

I'm not disregarding the importance of having a highly rated recruiting class. I'd take an all 3 star class if we could get them, but I wouldn't over emphasize the impact it had on your past or future success. It's a part of it, but it's not THE only part of it. I'd be most concerned with Lester's ability to keep up the quality of coaching that Fleck brought. Next year there will be plenty of talent on the field(as far as ratings), it will be interesting to see if Lester can get the most out of it.

Good post. But more importantly, great name; +2 for the name rabid squirrel.

(01-28-2017 09:49 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Fleck's first class was eighth in MAC and he had a month longer than Lester.

Plus he didn't have the previous coach poaching our commits.

Considering circumstances I suspect new staff will do fine on Signing Day.

Apples to oranges in a sense; even with the poaching this class never fell below top half of the conference. But I understand your point and agree that Lester is doing fine on short notice.

(01-28-2017 12:09 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Hope you don't mind a Huskies fan chiming in here. Things are much more interesting over here than they are for our board right now. It's a very chaotic, yet exciting time for WMU football, while a very dubious one for NIU. I've followed the Broncos a bit closer since their rise. The recruiting thing especially. A few thoughts:

While Flecks classes have been amazing, last years team had 16 two star players starting. The 2 star guys are always the foundation of all MAC teams. I know for us the success rate for 3 star kids is no better than it is for the 2. Oddly enough, nearly all of the all-time greats for us have been 2 star rated.

As far all time great players, it's usually takes one to make an all-time great MAC team. Ben-Miami, Moss-Marshall, Lynch-NIU, and Davis-WMU. The better MAC teams are very close in talent and sometimes a super-star sets them apart.

In regards to talent, Fleck's aura seemed to be built around his recruiting ability. Which is off the charts. But he was a extremely good at coaching fundamental, smart football. To me, people had the impression WMU just rolled the ball out and their P5 talent just ran circles around the other MAC schools. But like I mentioned, you had 16 two star starters. That's probably in line with what most MAC teams have. What made WMU so good was being incredibly efficient and playing mistake free ball. That was their key to success(and Davis). The Broncos won every T.O. contest in big games as well as committing the fewer penalties. That's almost always the key to winning. That and QB play. Terrell was a very efficient, great game manager. Very similar to Drew Hare in 2014 when he had 18 tds to 2 ints. Neither QB was a big-time play maker. But they made big plays when needed. Terrell played like a senior QB and a great leader.

I'm not disregarding the importance of having a highly rated recruiting class. I'd take an all 3 star class if we could get them, but I wouldn't over emphasize the impact it had on your past or future success. It's a part of it, but it's not THE only part of it. I'd be most concerned with Lester's ability to keep up the quality of coaching that Fleck brought. Next year there will be plenty of talent on the field(as far as ratings), it will be interesting to see if Lester can get the most out of it.

Squirrel speaks knowledge... and it always comes down to playing fundamentally sound ball... strong players with a single goal...

WMU under Fleck became a TEAM playing for each other... no drama. The Franklin/Bogan backfield could have destroyed some teams chemistry but those two made each other better! That's the culture Fleck has left us to grow from!

GO BRONCOS!

I think even more so than his recruiting success, Fleck's real ability was as a motivator. He got the most out of the guys he had, and that combined with the above-average MAC recruiting classes led to some really good WMU teams the past few years.

But it doesn't hurt that he had superior athletes to work with. You can't teach speed. Davis, Phillips, Franklin, Bogan, Bellamy, Eskridge...that kind of athleticism gives any coach a huge advantage.

Quote:The days of getting 13 three stars recuits are over.

Yep. And less 2-star recruits, I would believe. BUT, maybe not so much. Lester & Co. have a chance next year (and this year) to show what they can bring in as far as recruits.

A lot of it is going to be with how well Lester makes the team dug in, dedicated, and growing together. Obviously Pappa PJ did that very well. And his recruiting (VS average-MAC) made the difference between being an improved team from the latter Cubit years + in the running for 1st place .... VS going 12-0 when the key players were seniors.

(01-28-2017 04:05 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  I think even more so than his recruiting success, Fleck's real ability was as a motivator. He got the most out of the guys he had, and that combined with the above-average MAC recruiting classes led to some really good WMU teams the past few years.

But it doesn't hurt that he had superior athletes to work with. You can't teach speed. Davis, Phillips, Franklin, Bogan, Bellamy, Eskridge...that kind of athleticism gives any coach a huge advantage.

That superior talent has a composite recruit ranking of 2.5 stars. That's not to say they're not talented. Just that theyre only average MAC recruits(except Bellamy). For example; 2 star rival's RB Jordan Huff will lead the MAC in rushing in 2017. It just shows that winning the recruiting war can be misleading. Especially at the skill position. It seems more important/accurate on both O and D lines. That's where WMU has an edge and reason for optimism in 2017.

(01-29-2017 03:00 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 04:05 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  I think even more so than his recruiting success, Fleck's real ability was as a motivator. He got the most out of the guys he had, and that combined with the above-average MAC recruiting classes led to some really good WMU teams the past few years.

But it doesn't hurt that he had superior athletes to work with. You can't teach speed. Davis, Phillips, Franklin, Bogan, Bellamy, Eskridge...that kind of athleticism gives any coach a huge advantage.

That superior talent has a composite recruit ranking of 2.5 stars. That's not to say they're not talented. Just that theyre only average MAC recruits(except Bellamy). For example; 2 star rival's RB Jordan Huff will lead the MAC in rushing in 2017. It just shows that winning the recruiting war can be misleading. Especially at the skill position. It seems more important/accurate on both O and D lines. That's where WMU has an edge and reason for optimism in 2017.

To be fair, Huff wouldn't lead the MAC if WMU didn't have 4 backs that were better.

I would say that Gilbert will lead the MAC in rushing.