(01-23-2017 09:00 PM)RonBurgundy Wrote:  The problem with the Independence Bowl is their administration is incompetent, delusional, and can't put up enough money to be attractive to good SEC and Big XII teams like in the past. Their bowl attendance is tanking because they are getting 6-6 ACC and SEC teams that don't really move the needle of public interest. Why would anyone in Shreveport care about watching a team like Boston College, NC State, Vandy, or South Carolina? I can guarantee outside of the player's families that fan bases aren't making the trip down to Shrevegas from these schools. The Alabama's, Oklahoma's, and Texas A&M's aren't coming anymore like in the past because the bowl is getting the bottom of the barrel of the SEC and ACC who most years won't even fill their allotment. The people running the Indy Bowl keep holding on to their wet dream of getting a 6-6 or 5-7 LSU to come up to NWLA which is going to kill the bowl cause it ain't happening anytime soon. If they were smart, they would re-up with two of C-USA, Sun Belt, and AAC so they could have a bunch of teams within a easy drive that would actually come and spend money in Shreveport.

If Shreveport hits the lotto and lands Arkansas, TAMU, or LSU or to a lesser degree Ole Miss or Miss State they make bucket loads of money.

(01-23-2017 09:00 PM)RonBurgundy Wrote:  The problem with the Independence Bowl is their administration is incompetent, delusional, and can't put up enough money to be attractive to good SEC and Big XII teams like in the past. Their bowl attendance is tanking because they are getting 6-6 ACC and SEC teams that don't really move the needle of public interest. Why would anyone in Shreveport care about watching a team like Boston College, NC State, Vandy, or South Carolina? I can guarantee outside of the player's families that fan bases aren't making the trip down to Shrevegas from these schools. The Alabama's, Oklahoma's, and Texas A&M's aren't coming anymore like in the past because the bowl is getting the bottom of the barrel of the SEC and ACC who most years won't even fill their allotment. The people running the Indy Bowl keep holding on to their wet dream of getting a 6-6 or 5-7 LSU to come up to NWLA which is going to kill the bowl cause it ain't happening anytime soon. If they were smart, they would re-up with two of C-USA, Sun Belt, and AAC so they could have a bunch of teams within a easy drive that would actually come and spend money in Shreveport.

Blasphemy, all power teams are hyper relevant and immensely popular throughout everywhere.

(01-24-2017 09:14 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 08:55 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  How about SEC #4 vs G5 champion #2 (Access bowl runner up).

Right now SEC #4 is slotted for, let me see, Sugar, Citrus, Houston/Charlotte/Liberty/Tampa/Gator. So try SEC #8, and I doubt that they'll prefer the second-best G5 champ over a 6-6 P5 matchup.

So, I expect the SEC to say "How bout...no"

The goal for the AAC is to position their champion for a Liberty/Gator/Music City/Texas Bowl level opponent. The pool that includes those bowls guarantees each bowl a #3-#5 selection. The AAC should be looking to land a slot in that pool.

Frankly, I don't think the Indy Bowl is the best way to gain access to that pool. I suspect the only way for the AAC to land a slot in that pool is to vastly upgrade the payout of the Miami Bowl. So, I think the AAC would love a slot in the Indy Bowl--but they aren't going to guarantee their champ to the Indy Bowl without the Indy Bowl promising a much better P5 selection as the opponent (has to be better than the ACC #7).

(01-24-2017 02:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 09:14 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 08:55 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  How about SEC #4 vs G5 champion #2 (Access bowl runner up).

Right now SEC #4 is slotted for, let me see, Sugar, Citrus, Houston/Charlotte/Liberty/Tampa/Gator. So try SEC #8, and I doubt that they'll prefer the second-best G5 champ over a 6-6 P5 matchup.

So, I expect the SEC to say "How bout...no"

The goal for the AAC is to position their champion for a Liberty/Gator/Music City/Texas Bowl level opponent. The pool that includes those bowls guarantees each bowl a #3-#5 selection. The AAC should be looking to land a slot in that pool.

Frankly, I don't think the Indy Bowl is the best way to gain access to that pool. I suspect the only way for the AAC to land a slot in that pool is to vastly upgrade the payout of the Miami Bowl. So, I think the AAC would love a slot in the Indy Bowl--but they aren't going to guarantee their champ to the Indy Bowl without the Indy Bowl promising a much better P5 selection as the opponent (has to be better than the ACC #7).

I don't think that would work, but Miami Beach >>> Shreveport, so it's a less hopeless strategy anyway. But more likely is the SEC and ACC move their lower-tier part-time matchup from Shreveport to Marlins Stadium and kick out the AAC, much like the ACC and Big Ten did with the Pinstripe Bowl.

As I see it, the only thing attractive about the Independence Bowl is that it has an ACC/SEC opponent, most of the time.

(01-24-2017 04:01 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 02:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 09:14 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 08:55 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  How about SEC #4 vs G5 champion #2 (Access bowl runner up).

Right now SEC #4 is slotted for, let me see, Sugar, Citrus, Houston/Charlotte/Liberty/Tampa/Gator. So try SEC #8, and I doubt that they'll prefer the second-best G5 champ over a 6-6 P5 matchup.

So, I expect the SEC to say "How bout...no"

The goal for the AAC is to position their champion for a Liberty/Gator/Music City/Texas Bowl level opponent. The pool that includes those bowls guarantees each bowl a #3-#5 selection. The AAC should be looking to land a slot in that pool.

Frankly, I don't think the Indy Bowl is the best way to gain access to that pool. I suspect the only way for the AAC to land a slot in that pool is to vastly upgrade the payout of the Miami Bowl. So, I think the AAC would love a slot in the Indy Bowl--but they aren't going to guarantee their champ to the Indy Bowl without the Indy Bowl promising a much better P5 selection as the opponent (has to be better than the ACC #7).

I don't think that would work, but Miami Beach >>> Shreveport, so it's a less hopeless strategy anyway. But more likely is the SEC and ACC move their lower-tier part-time matchup from Shreveport to Marlins Stadium and kick out the AAC, much like the ACC and Big Ten did with the Pinstripe Bowl.

As I see it, the only thing attractive about the Independence Bowl is that it has an ACC/SEC opponent, most of the time.

I guess the AAC might be able to make more money if Marlins stadium hosted the SEC vs. ACC. They'd have to kick themselves out though as it is a conference owned bowl...which is why the possibility exists to upgrade opponents.

(01-24-2017 02:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 09:14 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 08:55 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  How about SEC #4 vs G5 champion #2 (Access bowl runner up).

Right now SEC #4 is slotted for, let me see, Sugar, Citrus, Houston/Charlotte/Liberty/Tampa/Gator. So try SEC #8, and I doubt that they'll prefer the second-best G5 champ over a 6-6 P5 matchup.

So, I expect the SEC to say "How bout...no"

The goal for the AAC is to position their champion for a Liberty/Gator/Music City/Texas Bowl level opponent. The pool that includes those bowls guarantees each bowl a #3-#5 selection. The AAC should be looking to land a slot in that pool.

Frankly, I don't think the Indy Bowl is the best way to gain access to that pool. I suspect the only way for the AAC to land a slot in that pool is to vastly upgrade the payout of the Miami Bowl. So, I think the AAC would love a slot in the Indy Bowl--but they aren't going to guarantee their champ to the Indy Bowl without the Indy Bowl promising a much better P5 selection as the opponent (has to be better than the ACC #7).

The problem for the AAC is that the ACC, SEC B10 & B12 may not be looking to give these bowls. In addition, I think the ACC would love to get the a Texas bowl against the B12 to replace Indy and move that ahead of Detroit and Miltary. Much of this will depend 17 & 18 seasons prior to the negotiations for the bowls starting in 19. If the ACC goes along with B10 and SEC as the only conferences to send teams to the CFP every year, the ACC will be looking to replace B12 and PAC in larger bowl games and getting a NYD bowl game to go along with with Orange. Don't be surprised if Ninja Swofford tries to get agreements in 2018.

AAC will have a hard time getting bowl games against P5 teams that are not in the lower tier of their conference tie-ins. I think you will be seeing more deals like the B10/ACC did sharing bowl spots to further ensure avoiding sending teams to the same bowl in a three year period.

(01-24-2017 06:36 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 04:01 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 02:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 09:14 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 08:55 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  How about SEC #4 vs G5 champion #2 (Access bowl runner up).

Right now SEC #4 is slotted for, let me see, Sugar, Citrus, Houston/Charlotte/Liberty/Tampa/Gator. So try SEC #8, and I doubt that they'll prefer the second-best G5 champ over a 6-6 P5 matchup.

So, I expect the SEC to say "How bout...no"

The goal for the AAC is to position their champion for a Liberty/Gator/Music City/Texas Bowl level opponent. The pool that includes those bowls guarantees each bowl a #3-#5 selection. The AAC should be looking to land a slot in that pool.

Frankly, I don't think the Indy Bowl is the best way to gain access to that pool. I suspect the only way for the AAC to land a slot in that pool is to vastly upgrade the payout of the Miami Bowl. So, I think the AAC would love a slot in the Indy Bowl--but they aren't going to guarantee their champ to the Indy Bowl without the Indy Bowl promising a much better P5 selection as the opponent (has to be better than the ACC #7).

I don't think that would work, but Miami Beach >>> Shreveport, so it's a less hopeless strategy anyway. But more likely is the SEC and ACC move their lower-tier part-time matchup from Shreveport to Marlins Stadium and kick out the AAC, much like the ACC and Big Ten did with the Pinstripe Bowl.

As I see it, the only thing attractive about the Independence Bowl is that it has an ACC/SEC opponent, most of the time.

I guess the AAC might be able to make more money if Marlins stadium hosted the SEC vs. ACC. They'd have to kick themselves out though as it is a conference owned bowl...which is why the possibility exists to upgrade opponents.

You own the bowl. You don't own the stadium, though. Just like Pinstripe and Detroit, when a P5 offer comes along, the G5 bowl gets kicked out. You can take your conference owned bowl license and find some other location, but don't bank on being able to hold on to something that the P5 conferences decide they want.

(01-24-2017 09:35 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If Shreveport hits the lotto and lands Arkansas, TAMU, or LSU or to a lesser degree Ole Miss or Miss State they make bucket loads of money.

Sounds like the I-Bowl should either: (1) Get a commitment from the SEC to send an SEC West team to Shreveport every year, or (2) Give up their "independence" and become an ESPN-operated game owned by ESPN and two G5 conferences.

(01-24-2017 06:36 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 04:01 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 02:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 09:14 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 08:55 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  How about SEC #4 vs G5 champion #2 (Access bowl runner up).

Right now SEC #4 is slotted for, let me see, Sugar, Citrus, Houston/Charlotte/Liberty/Tampa/Gator. So try SEC #8, and I doubt that they'll prefer the second-best G5 champ over a 6-6 P5 matchup.

So, I expect the SEC to say "How bout...no"

The goal for the AAC is to position their champion for a Liberty/Gator/Music City/Texas Bowl level opponent. The pool that includes those bowls guarantees each bowl a #3-#5 selection. The AAC should be looking to land a slot in that pool.

Frankly, I don't think the Indy Bowl is the best way to gain access to that pool. I suspect the only way for the AAC to land a slot in that pool is to vastly upgrade the payout of the Miami Bowl. So, I think the AAC would love a slot in the Indy Bowl--but they aren't going to guarantee their champ to the Indy Bowl without the Indy Bowl promising a much better P5 selection as the opponent (has to be better than the ACC #7).

I don't think that would work, but Miami Beach >>> Shreveport, so it's a less hopeless strategy anyway. But more likely is the SEC and ACC move their lower-tier part-time matchup from Shreveport to Marlins Stadium and kick out the AAC, much like the ACC and Big Ten did with the Pinstripe Bowl.

As I see it, the only thing attractive about the Independence Bowl is that it has an ACC/SEC opponent, most of the time.

I guess the AAC might be able to make more money if Marlins stadium hosted the SEC vs. ACC. They'd have to kick themselves out though as it is a conference owned bowl...which is why the possibility exists to upgrade opponents.

We went to the inaugural game, and it was an awkward set-up for football. Many (message board) fans would not be heartbroken to see it move. Whether it's in Marlin's stadium or not, it's the best shot for the AAC to upgrade opponents (if they through money at it). The most glaring problem is the lack of money to throw.

Sorry, didn't mean to reply to myself. Only pointing out that it's different from the Pinstripe and Detroit as those conferences AAC and MAC (?) lost actual tie ins.

Actually, Quick Lane Bowl, which is organized by the Detroit Lions, was a new bowl. Organizers explored the possibility of moving the Little Caesars Pizza Bowl to nearby Comerica Park as an outdoor game or could have moved to another city. However, they decided to cancel the bowl instead of looking for a new location or city.

Actually the AAC lost three bowls that year

Along with Pinstripe to the ACC, they lost Belk (Charlotte) to the SEC and Russell Athletic (Orlando) to the B12. I think the payout for one of these bowls almost covers at least 2/3 of the entire bowl payout for the current line up.

Thanks, couldn't recall the Detroit situation clearly. Everything rolls downhill. If my memory serves, after the AAC lost tie ins, they stole from CUSA...Military, Armed Forces (CUSA's partial), half of CUSA's HI spot and accepted a 2 year rotation in NOLA instead of an outright tie...mistake IMO. St. Pete (founded by Big East/CUSA) re-upped with a AAC vs. ACC/CUSA shared tie. New bowls made up the rest IIRC. Definitely a downgrade. Not sure how many ties the Big East had, but Birmingham and St. Pete may have been the only holdovers.

ETA: The main problem with Marlin's Park is the distance for AAC West teams. A move would be welcomed for half the league.

(01-24-2017 08:53 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  Thanks, couldn't recall the Detroit situation clearly. Everything rolls downhill. If my memory serves, after the AAC lost tie ins, they stole from CUSA...Military, Armed Forces (CUSA's partial), half of CUSA's HI spot and accepted a 2 year rotation in NOLA instead of an outright tie...mistake IMO. St. Pete (founded by Big East/CUSA) re-upped with a AAC vs. ACC/CUSA shared tie. New bowls made up the rest IIRC. Definitely a downgrade. Not sure how many ties the Big East had, but Birmingham and St. Pete may have been the only holdovers.

ETA: The main problem with Marlin's Park is the distance for AAC West teams. A move would be welcomed for half the league.

GCG I wouldn't get into a debate on this subject. You have some posters in this thread who are trying to turn this indy bowl issue into some kind of indictment on the AAC and there's nothing logical that you can state that will get them off of their agenda,,,, just a fair warning

(01-24-2017 06:55 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 06:36 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 04:01 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 02:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 09:14 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Right now SEC #4 is slotted for, let me see, Sugar, Citrus, Houston/Charlotte/Liberty/Tampa/Gator. So try SEC #8, and I doubt that they'll prefer the second-best G5 champ over a 6-6 P5 matchup.

So, I expect the SEC to say "How bout...no"

The goal for the AAC is to position their champion for a Liberty/Gator/Music City/Texas Bowl level opponent. The pool that includes those bowls guarantees each bowl a #3-#5 selection. The AAC should be looking to land a slot in that pool.

Frankly, I don't think the Indy Bowl is the best way to gain access to that pool. I suspect the only way for the AAC to land a slot in that pool is to vastly upgrade the payout of the Miami Bowl. So, I think the AAC would love a slot in the Indy Bowl--but they aren't going to guarantee their champ to the Indy Bowl without the Indy Bowl promising a much better P5 selection as the opponent (has to be better than the ACC #7).

I don't think that would work, but Miami Beach >>> Shreveport, so it's a less hopeless strategy anyway. But more likely is the SEC and ACC move their lower-tier part-time matchup from Shreveport to Marlins Stadium and kick out the AAC, much like the ACC and Big Ten did with the Pinstripe Bowl.

As I see it, the only thing attractive about the Independence Bowl is that it has an ACC/SEC opponent, most of the time.

I guess the AAC might be able to make more money if Marlins stadium hosted the SEC vs. ACC. They'd have to kick themselves out though as it is a conference owned bowl...which is why the possibility exists to upgrade opponents.

You own the bowl. You don't own the stadium, though. Just like Pinstripe and Detroit, when a P5 offer comes along, the G5 bowl gets kicked out. You can take your conference owned bowl license and find some other location, but don't bank on being able to hold on to something that the P5 conferences decide they want.

This is a good point.

I don't think one G5 conference can gain much traction. But if the G5 could offer its 4 non-CFP champions to a series of bowls to play the P5 it might be interesting enough.

Even if some traditional G5 bowls like Las Vegas and Mobile have to be sacrificed.

It will be interesting how much trimming goes on with conferences needing to average 6 wins. Is it going to be a rounding down if you average 7.2 or a rounding up? This should lead to a reduction for the P5. If there is a reduction they'll probably scramble to keep what they have.

Independence may have to drop to a G5 affiliation, especially with the P5 wanting to try a bowl in Chicago.

Lower tier P5 bowls become G5 bowls.
Lower tier G5 bowls go out of business...

(01-24-2017 08:53 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  ETA: The main problem with Marlin's Park is the distance for AAC West teams. A move would be welcomed for half the league.

That's why I think the G5 would be served in creating a 6 bowl pool with the G4 champs vs. at-large to make geography work.

Poinsettia
Las Vegas
Independence
Mobile
Miami Beach
Virginia Beach (new for the pool)

Add to the pool BYU, Army for star power and then pick the next best 6 G5 teams based on record to fill slots. Try to stick to geography where possible.

AAC thinks they can ratchet up the tie-in ladder like the old Big East. One big difference between the AAC and Big East 2.0 is that Big East 2.0 had Notre Dame as part of its bowl lineup. ND enabled the BE to trade up some in bowl games and with only 8 schools the conference didn't need as many as a 12 team AAC.

(01-24-2017 02:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 09:14 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 08:55 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  How about SEC #4 vs G5 champion #2 (Access bowl runner up).

Right now SEC #4 is slotted for, let me see, Sugar, Citrus, Houston/Charlotte/Liberty/Tampa/Gator. So try SEC #8, and I doubt that they'll prefer the second-best G5 champ over a 6-6 P5 matchup.

So, I expect the SEC to say "How bout...no"

The goal for the AAC is to position their champion for a Liberty/Gator/Music City/Texas Bowl level opponent. The pool that includes those bowls guarantees each bowl a #3-#5 selection. The AAC should be looking to land a slot in that pool.

That's not going to happen.

The BE was only able to trade up into the bowl system some because it had ND as a bowl partner.

What would be smarter is try to pool resources with the G5 into better games or a second tier bowl series with P5 teams. with 4 G5 conference champs to bundle it might be appealing enough with ratings and attendance at non-CFP bowls down.

G5 champs are on national TV before bowl games now. They walk in with some exposure and name recognition. Cinderella national interest.

(01-24-2017 06:55 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 06:36 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 04:01 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 02:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 09:14 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Right now SEC #4 is slotted for, let me see, Sugar, Citrus, Houston/Charlotte/Liberty/Tampa/Gator. So try SEC #8, and I doubt that they'll prefer the second-best G5 champ over a 6-6 P5 matchup.

So, I expect the SEC to say "How bout...no"

The goal for the AAC is to position their champion for a Liberty/Gator/Music City/Texas Bowl level opponent. The pool that includes those bowls guarantees each bowl a #3-#5 selection. The AAC should be looking to land a slot in that pool.

Frankly, I don't think the Indy Bowl is the best way to gain access to that pool. I suspect the only way for the AAC to land a slot in that pool is to vastly upgrade the payout of the Miami Bowl. So, I think the AAC would love a slot in the Indy Bowl--but they aren't going to guarantee their champ to the Indy Bowl without the Indy Bowl promising a much better P5 selection as the opponent (has to be better than the ACC #7).

I don't think that would work, but Miami Beach >>> Shreveport, so it's a less hopeless strategy anyway. But more likely is the SEC and ACC move their lower-tier part-time matchup from Shreveport to Marlins Stadium and kick out the AAC, much like the ACC and Big Ten did with the Pinstripe Bowl.

As I see it, the only thing attractive about the Independence Bowl is that it has an ACC/SEC opponent, most of the time.

I guess the AAC might be able to make more money if Marlins stadium hosted the SEC vs. ACC. They'd have to kick themselves out though as it is a conference owned bowl...which is why the possibility exists to upgrade opponents.

You own the bowl. You don't own the stadium, though. Just like Pinstripe and Detroit, when a P5 offer comes along, the G5 bowl gets kicked out. You can take your conference owned bowl license and find some other location, but don't bank on being able to hold on to something that the P5 conferences decide they want.

There are plenty of conference stadiums to move the Miami Bowl to.

My point remains---the rule of thumb is no bowl with a payout high enough to attract a high P5 opponent will opt for an AAC tie when they can afford a P5 tie. Thus, the only way it can happen is for the AAC to upgrade its own bowl. The location doesn't matter.

Besides---theres now a ban on new bowls, so kicking the AAC owned Miami Bowl out of Marlins stadium would simply result in Marlins Stadium having no bowl at all.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/earl...db77f2aa18

Not that I think BYU would be for it, but I think doing a 4 game deal with the AAC be part of their tie-ins would both in the upcoming Bowl negotiations. Similar to ND and ACC agreement.

(01-25-2017 12:42 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Not that I think BYU would be for it, but I think doing a 4 game deal with the AAC be part of their tie-ins would both in the upcoming Bowl negotiations. Similar to ND and ACC agreement.

Looking over their schedule thus year, BYU has 1 AAC team and it's ECU at ECU (yeah!) an FCS team, 4 P5 teams and the rest of their schedule is all MWC teams. For a conference and a school who left on very bad terms, they sure are playing a lot o football games against each other lol

Cheers!

(01-22-2017 03:20 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Because it was left on the table after the SEC and Big Ten had filled all their available ties. For all it's flaws (Shreveport, not ACC country) it's a bowl with history against a P5 opponent. It's in the ACC lower tier along with Detroit vs the Big TEn, Military vs AAC (usually Navy) and ST PEtersburg vs AAC (part time).

The established Florida bowls (Citrus, Tampa, Gator) would rather have a Big TEn-SEC matchup, so the ACC has to take what they can get.

Well the ACC#2 (in a sense) goes to the Russell Bowl which is a second bowl in Orlando to the Citrus.


So why not dump the Indy Bowl and just prop up another second bowl, either in Tampa, Jacksonville, or perhaps Atlanta, with a mid ACC bowl team?