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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-27-2017 04:45 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 04:05 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 04:00 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 12:07 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 11:54 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  "Overachieving" comes from where we were and where we are. Arguable best player aside - we didn't return a lot of experience.

We got back a little over one-third of our minutes, points, rebounds from last year. That's well below average. Probably lowest in the league - excluding Tulsa where Haith basically turned over his entire roster. Compare that to SMU and Cincy who return very experienced teams. They have over half their production returned. They aren't necessarily "not deep" - they are choosing to go with the short rotation because they can with experienced players.

The other thing leading to the overachieving opinion is the visual evidence of a turnaround starting. We see the difference in our players and our team from what we've had the past few years. I believe we have won more as underdogs than we've lost as favorites.

It took Pastner a few years to get us to where we are, so we figured it would take a few years to get back up. Seems like the timeline is speeding up. We are winning more with fewer experienced players. Hence, overachieving.

I know you don't like it or agree with it. You and the other guy wanted another coach. We get it. But if you step away from that, surely you can objectively recognize at least some of this perception.

The team was 13-7 (4-3) at this same point last year.

I understand everything you posted...if it's overachieving, it's overachieving by a hair...at best.

There's nothing wrong with it either. It is what it is though.

Well, we've played 21 games. So we were 13-8 last year. That is 2 game improvement after losing 2/3 of your production.

You do weird math stuff.

That's hilarious. If you only knew.

But this is pretty basic. See, we've played 21 this year and we're 15-6. After 21 last year, we were 13-8. Is that really weird to you?

Or are you getting confused on losing 2/3 of our production. See we lost 60+% or our points, rebounds, minutes from last year.

This can't be that confusing.

If you live in a vacuum, that's awesome sauce.

Of course last year, at this juncture, Memphis had played four teams that were ranked in the top 25 when we played them. This year, zero.

Last year OU was top 10, USCe was fully healthy AT Columbia. OM was better than this year's team. We had already played @Cinci and @(nationally ranked)UConn.

But, yeah, other than that, it is totally apples to apples.
01-27-2017 04:52 PM
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HoopDreams Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-27-2017 04:49 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  For the most part, the season is right where most fans thought it would be.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-800403.html

Yup.
01-27-2017 04:55 PM
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Tiger87 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-27-2017 04:46 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 04:41 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  I'm not one to say he's well above expectations. I just want to point out how some can see he's doing well. If you can't see that, you've certainly got something else going on.

I'm not sure anyone has said he's not doing well.

There were varying expectation levels going into the season therefore some view this point in the season differently than others.

For the roster that staff went with, they are doing fine. Certainly better play on the court and in game coaching than there was under the previous regime.

That's all. No conspiracy or hate or whatever else anyone wants to intimate.

We are reconciled.

I don't think there's a conspiracy or hate. I do know that some people have not liked him from Day 1, though, and that it is very difficult for them to move off that. There's one guy on here who says all he wants to do is collect a paycheck for his retirement. I think he even added a golden parachute image to his signature.
01-27-2017 04:56 PM
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Tiger87 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-27-2017 04:49 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  Essentially in the 11 games in which Memphis Memphis has been a dog (6) or favored by 5.5 (5 games) points or less, they play pick'em ball (7-6).

I see now how the math confuses you.
01-27-2017 04:59 PM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-27-2017 04:59 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 04:49 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  Essentially in the 11 games in which Memphis Memphis has been a dog (6) or favored by 5.5 (5 games) points or less, they play pick'em ball (7-6).

I see now how the math confuses you.

Haha.

Well played.

(6-5).

[Image: d3Os2lG.gif]
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2017 05:02 PM by salukiblue.)
01-27-2017 05:00 PM
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HoopDreams Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-27-2017 04:56 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  There's one guy on here who says all he wants to do is collect a paycheck for his retirement. I think he even added a golden parachute image to his signature.

Hmmmm....I think that same poster was the first to start a thread on the rumor of Tubby to Memphis...ah yes, here's post from that thread.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-777119.html

(04-10-2016 06:42 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Agree with most. He's too old for the job now. Recruiting is his weakness and hasn't gotten any better with age. Coaching is very solid. But not the right fit for us now.
01-27-2017 05:02 PM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-27-2017 05:02 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 04:56 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  There's one guy on here who says all he wants to do is collect a paycheck for his retirement. I think he even added a golden parachute image to his signature.

Hmmmm....I think that same poster was the first to start a thread on the rumor of Tubby to Memphis...ah yes, here's post from that thread.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-777119.html

(04-10-2016 06:42 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Agree with most. He's too old for the job now. Recruiting is his weakness and hasn't gotten any better with age. Coaching is very solid. But not the right fit for us now.

[Image: raw]
01-27-2017 05:05 PM
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Tiger87 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-27-2017 04:55 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 04:49 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  For the most part, the season is right where most fans thought it would be.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-800403.html

Yup.

So, most thought 20ish.

If we're right where most expected, then 5-5 down the stretch is the expectation?
01-27-2017 05:17 PM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-27-2017 05:17 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 04:55 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 04:49 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  For the most part, the season is right where most fans thought it would be.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-800403.html

Yup.

So, most thought 20ish.

If we're right where most expected, then 5-5 down the stretch is the expectation?

That seems to be the math to get to 20. 6-4 to hit my prediction.
01-27-2017 05:23 PM
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Tiger87 Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-27-2017 05:02 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 04:56 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  There's one guy on here who says all he wants to do is collect a paycheck for his retirement. I think he even added a golden parachute image to his signature.

Hmmmm....I think that same poster was the first to start a thread on the rumor of Tubby to Memphis...ah yes, here's post from that thread.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-777119.html

(04-10-2016 06:42 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Agree with most. He's too old for the job now. Recruiting is his weakness and hasn't gotten any better with age. Coaching is very solid. But not the right fit for us now.

Interesting. Russian hack? Fake news? FBI hates me?

I came around. Talked to a UK fan who didn't care for Tubby there, to get his take. He convinced me he would be a good coach for us right now. He sold me on his coaching ability and educated me that his recruiting is not as bad as some say. His biggest problem was playing Saul so much there. That and not schmoozing BBN. We got a taste of nepotism with the staff, and I wasn't a fan, but whatever.

Some come around, some can't get past the bias.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2017 05:31 PM by Tiger87.)
01-27-2017 05:27 PM
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3601 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-27-2017 04:55 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 04:49 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  For the most part, the season is right where most fans thought it would be.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-800403.html

Yup.

Most fans, but not PoopDreams?
01-27-2017 05:33 PM
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HoopDreams Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-27-2017 05:27 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 05:02 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 04:56 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  There's one guy on here who says all he wants to do is collect a paycheck for his retirement. I think he even added a golden parachute image to his signature.

Hmmmm....I think that same poster was the first to start a thread on the rumor of Tubby to Memphis...ah yes, here's post from that thread.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-777119.html

(04-10-2016 06:42 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Agree with most. He's too old for the job now. Recruiting is his weakness and hasn't gotten any better with age. Coaching is very solid. But not the right fit for us now.

Interesting. Russian hack? Fake news? FBI hates me?

I came around. Talked to a UK fan who didn't care for Tubby there, to get his take. He convinced me he would be a good coach for us right now. He sold me on his coaching ability and educated me that his recruiting is not as bad as some say. His biggest problem was playing Saul so much there. We got a taste of that with the staff, and I wasn't a fan, but whatever.

Some come around, some can't get past the bias.

I like his coaching and a lot of things I see on the court, especially that he knows how to beat a zone and he likes to mix up defenses.

I'll take down the golden parachute sig pic when Tubby puts a deep roster of legit scholarship players on the floor (no walk-ons or legacies either - real players). That's as much of a promise as I will ever make.

To me, Memphis is easy - especially given the talent in the Mid-South (east AR, north MS, west TN):

1) Construct a full roster of legit DI players
2) Play a challenging schedule
3) Win more than you lose
4) Don't get curbstomped in the tourney

In reality, do those 4 things and make like 1 decent run and you will still have critics, but you will also get an easy 6-8 years out of the gig.

Heck, Josh did 3 of the 4 and got 7 years.
01-27-2017 05:36 PM
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AlonsoWDC Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-27-2017 09:36 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 07:37 AM)roachman48 Wrote:  1 I am baffled by josh's success at ga tech. How in the hell did one of his teams upset UNC and FSU?
2 I do not know if tubby deserves a spot on that list of best first year coaches. BUT, imho, on the court Tubby has DEFINITELY OVERACHIEVED with this roster of players.Now, recruiting has been much less impressive. But we will have to wait and see on that one.

I just don't see the over achieving on the part of this team. I know we've been over this a million times, but basically this team always puts out the best player on the floor (Dedric) and that helps. OU and USCe were probably games Memphis stole, but OM, Monmouth, and Tulsa were games they should have won (ie better talent). Providence and Iowa were toss ups. Every other win was versus a team Memphis was supposed to beat easily--and they did. That is simply achieving, not OVER achieving.

Oklahoma was a hard-fought comeback win and I'll grant you that - but we stomped a hole in South Carolina and they never threatened for the win.
01-27-2017 06:06 PM
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macgar32 Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-27-2017 04:06 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 04:00 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 12:07 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 11:54 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 09:36 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  I just don't see the over achieving on the part of this team. I know we've been over this a million times, but basically this team always puts out the best player on the floor (Dedric) and that helps. OU and USCe were probably games Memphis stole, but OM, Monmouth, and Tulsa were games they should have won (ie better talent). Providence and Iowa were toss ups. Every other win was versus a team Memphis was supposed to beat easily--and they did. That is simply achieving, not OVER achieving.

Depth sucks, but SMU plays even fewer players than Memphis, and they are doing really well. Cinci plays their starters the same minutes as Memphis and has one extra reserve but they still are winning.

Hopefully, the entire team sticks around for next year (minus Kessee, of course) and the raw recruits that are coming in can fill small needs as necessary.

"Overachieving" comes from where we were and where we are. Arguable best player aside - we didn't return a lot of experience.

We got back a little over one-third of our minutes, points, rebounds from last year. That's well below average. Probably lowest in the league - excluding Tulsa where Haith basically turned over his entire roster. Compare that to SMU and Cincy who return very experienced teams. They have over half their production returned. They aren't necessarily "not deep" - they are choosing to go with the short rotation because they can with experienced players.

The other thing leading to the overachieving opinion is the visual evidence of a turnaround starting. We see the difference in our players and our team from what we've had the past few years. I believe we have won more as underdogs than we've lost as favorites.

It took Pastner a few years to get us to where we are, so we figured it would take a few years to get back up. Seems like the timeline is speeding up. We are winning more with fewer experienced players. Hence, overachieving.

I know you don't like it or agree with it. You and the other guy wanted another coach. We get it. But if you step away from that, surely you can objectively recognize at least some of this perception.

The team was 13-7 (4-3) at this same point last year.

I understand everything you posted...if it's overachieving, it's overachieving by a hair...at best.

There's nothing wrong with it either. It is what it is though.

Well, we've played 21 games. So we were 13-8 last year. That is 2 game improvement after losing 2/3 of your production.

Yeah, but if 2/3 of your production wasn't all that great and the replacement was a guy like KJ getting max minutes then it's mostly a wash.

I mean, as of right now, would you rather have a senior Shaq Goodwin getting 30 mpg or redshirt freshman KJ getting 33 mpg?

Most folks would probably say it's a wash.

Every team loses production every year.

Your kidding right...

KJ is a wash with Burrel.

There was no replacement for Shaq and its not even close.

There was no replacement for Woodson and its not even close.

Martin has done a good job replacing Tarrant but no one saw that coming

And obviously no one would have expected Crawford being one of the most improved players in the country.

So yeah most would have expected Josh to be in the toilet with this team...What record would you have expected from Josh with this roster prior to the season starting? The expectations if Josh was the coach should be the baseline if we are looking for improvements.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2017 06:22 PM by macgar32.)
01-27-2017 06:20 PM
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HoopDreams Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
Huh?
01-27-2017 07:19 PM
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3601 Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-27-2017 05:33 PM)3601 Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 04:55 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 04:49 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  For the most part, the season is right where most fans thought it would be.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-800403.html

Yup.

Most fans, but not PoopDreams?

Crickets? PoopDreams isn't on that thread. PD said we would be lucky to win 15. T or F?
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2017 10:39 PM by 3601.)
01-27-2017 10:37 PM
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3601 Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-27-2017 10:12 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  
(01-27-2017 10:02 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Jon Rothstein Verified account
‏@JonRothstein
Georgia Tech may have the worst power-five roster I've ever seen. Yellow Jackets won't win a game in ACC play this season. Book it.

Yep.

Because the "experts" and their preseason predictions were wrong, now all of a sudden it's a miracle coaching job.

Pfffftttt

Haven't you thrown Pastner under the bus in the past because he didn't do well with highly rated recruits and also mocked some of those folks who said the recruits might be overrated? You also ridiculed Pastner for not living up to preseason expectations.

Can't have it both ways, amigo. Make up your mind.
01-28-2017 02:03 PM
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HoopDreams Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
Huh?
01-28-2017 02:33 PM
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3601 Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Ranking new coaches by CBS Sports
(01-28-2017 02:33 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Huh?

Don't be obtuse.
01-28-2017 07:07 PM
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