It hit me the other day. Mick is still pretty young - a few years younger than me at 45. He's coaching in his 14th season overall and in his 11th at the helm of our beloved Bearcats. He's starting to put up some nice career numbers with what appears to be many coaching years still ahead for him (at UC or elsewhere). At UC, he has been consistently, quietly winning since the 2010/11 season when the current run of six consecutive tourney appearances began. I am definitely in the camp of a Mick supporter but I am not a blind Mick apologist. I say that because Mick deserves credit for enduring the rebuild years in one of the toughest, deepest conferences of all time. On the flip, he lacks conference championships and deep runs in the NCAA tournament. Not an indictment, just an observation. Anywho, I was curious how Mick stacks up against other UC coaches. First, some career numbers to consider:

293-155 (.654) 14th Season Overall
69-24 (.742) Murray State
224-131 (.631) Cincinnati
163-63 (.721) Cincinnati since 2010/11 Season
8 NCAA Tournament Appearances (2 Murray State)
1 Sweet Sixteen Appearance
2 Regular Season Championships (1 OVC, 1 AAC)
2 Conference Tournament Championships (Murray State)
7 Seasons AP Poll Appearances
1 Final AP Poll Ranking #15
Highest AP Poll Ranking #7

Now, some rankings for Mick compared to UC coaches all time:

Total Seasons: #2
Total Wins: #2
Total Losses: #1
Winning Percentage: #9
Conference Championships: Tied #4
NCAA Appearances: #2

Obviously, Mick would need to get to a FF and coach many more successful seasons to be in the same conversation with Huggs. A National Championship would put him up there as elite with Jucker. It is hard to compare between different eras however. No matter where he ends up, I believe Coach Cronin will leave a lasting legacy at UC as a former alum rebuilding our program from the ground up. He also has run a clean program and not embarrassed our university family. I will always remember how well he handled the difficult year after the Xavier brawl. If, and it is very possible IMO, he finds more success in terms of winning in March, then his legacy will be even greater. Conference affiliation, the new arena and recruiting can also be factors. Your thoughts on where do you see Mick's legacy heading or ending up at UC?

Jucker
Smith
Huggs
Cronin

In that order

One of the complaints I often hear about Mick is that he has hit a wall in regards to his performance. But I never really understood this sentiment. At age 45, he's consistently fielding good NCAA teams despite a poor conference and poor arena. One of those things will be upgraded soon. The other might be as well. Add that to the fact that annual tourney appearances will lead to a consistent uptick in recruiting, and I think it's very premature to say that Mick is incapable of getting over the hump.

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If this can be said to be Cronin's best team in terms of overall talent, imagine next year. Your starting 5 is going to look like:

Kyle Washington
Gary Clark
Jacob Evans
Jarron Cumberland
Cane Broome

I see 3 potential first team all conference players, and the other 2 guys are going to be excellent as well, likely second team or honorable mention. Then you got Jenifer and Tre Scott, and Brooks coming off the bench as spark plugs. Don't know much about the incoming guys but I hear one of them is a shooter and the other is a scorer, and I think we are adding some post depth as well.

Just sayin that we might have not seen Cronin's peak yet and he is only 45...

Chatter? Chatter?

Mick's boys are due for some luck. In the other thread, when got here there was 1 returning player a small forward and no evidence he ran anyone off the program.

UCGrad1992 offers an excellent summary of Mick's career in Post #1. I agree that the positives far outweigh any negatives at this point.

With that said, it's also fair for fans to expect more in the NCAA Tournament going forward. Losing the first game 3 of the past 4 seasons to teams from the Atlantic 10, Ivy League, and Missouri Valley (all considered mid-major conferences at best), was disappointing. Especially so coming out of the best conference ever during 3 of those years. If not for Caupain's heroics at the hoop against Purdue, that could easily be four straight first game losses.

But I'm through looking back. I really believe this is Mick's best team and next year's stands a good chance to be even better. So let's enjoy the moment; beat X, pound USF and enjoy an undefeated January. If so, that would be quite an accomplishment added to the Cronin era.

If mick let go of his little man complex he would be one of best in business. No coach prepares his team for big games like mick. Go grab a couple aau coaches to get better recruits and let everything else fall in place. Its not hard to gobble up wins at Cincinnati in the aac. Now you have talent its time win when it matters. After 11yrs I became frustrated with huggs for same reason. To be fair huggs was better recruiter but mick would've had a championship in 90's-2000's if he had teams huggs had. He coaches scrubs brilliant now I want see how he coaches talent.

(01-24-2017 08:19 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  With that said, it's also fair for fans to expect more in the NCAA Tournament going forward. Losing the first game 3 of the past 4 seasons to teams from the Atlantic 10, Ivy League, and Missouri Valley (all considered mid-major conferences at best), was disappointing. Especially so coming out of the best conference ever during 3 of those years. If not for Caupain's heroics at the hoop against Purdue, that could easily be four straight first game losses.

But if not for Ellis's dunk being a millisecond late (or Clark being hurt), UC could have easily been into the second round last year, and then, who knows? The what-ifs don't always have to be negative. Luck has more to do with the NCAA tournament than people care to acknowledge. Hopefully we get some good luck this season.

(01-23-2017 09:17 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Jucker
Smith
Huggs
Cronin

In that order

Gale Catlett had better teams and better players than Cronin.

(01-24-2017 11:07 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(01-23-2017 09:17 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Jucker
Smith
Huggs
Cronin

In that order

Gale Catlett had better teams and better players than Cronin.

One COULD argue that Tony Yates had better players at one point. He did have a Top 10 recruiting class. But yes, he was a terrible coach.

(01-24-2017 01:57 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 11:07 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(01-23-2017 09:17 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Jucker
Smith
Huggs
Cronin

In that order

Gale Catlett had better teams and better players than Cronin.

One COULD argue that Tony Yates had better players at one point. He did have a Top 10 recruiting class. But yes, he was a terrible coach.

Top 10 that had to sit out due to prop 48.

(01-24-2017 02:13 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 01:57 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 11:07 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(01-23-2017 09:17 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Jucker
Smith
Huggs
Cronin

In that order

Gale Catlett had better teams and better players than Cronin.

One COULD argue that Tony Yates had better players at one point. He did have a Top 10 recruiting class. But yes, he was a terrible coach.

Top 10 that had to sit out due to prop 48.

That class and the opening of the Shoemaker center really helped to propel Huggins to have a good start. I think looking back it is too easy to over or under rate coaches without looking into the advantages and disadvantages each encountered such as playing on campus or not, returning talent and probations faced.

(01-23-2017 10:44 PM)ctipton Wrote:  Chatter? Chatter?

I was just thinking about this today. He'd be truly enjoying this team. Of course, so would G

(01-24-2017 11:00 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 08:19 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  With that said, it's also fair for fans to expect more in the NCAA Tournament going forward. Losing the first game 3 of the past 4 seasons to teams from the Atlantic 10, Ivy League, and Missouri Valley (all considered mid-major conferences at best), was disappointing. Especially so coming out of the best conference ever during 3 of those years. If not for Caupain's heroics at the hoop against Purdue, that could easily be four straight first game losses.

But if not for Ellis's dunk being a millisecond late (or Clark being hurt), UC could have easily been into the second round last year, and then, who knows? The what-ifs don't always have to be negative. Luck has more to do with the NCAA tournament than people care to acknowledge. Hopefully we get some good luck this season.

Mick's first tournament team was poised to make a run and was playing pretty good basketball but unfortunately ran into a player/team that wouldn't be denied. UC played them about as tough as anyone else did that March, but unfortunately fell a bit short.

Kilpatrick's three to tie against Creighton going in and out with about 10 seconds left. Who knows what would have happened if that dropped.

The Harvard game was a really tough draw. Harvard was a 12 seed but ranked 32 in Kenpom. Only 5 spots behind UC. There were 14 teams that made the tournament that year that were lower than Harvard on Kenpom but got a higher seed. UC still should have/could have won, but it was a tough draw.

Keep making the tournament every year and eventually the stars will align and UC will make a run.

Uconn's last National Championship they won, they were a seven seed and won a game in overtime (in a game they probably should have lost) to #10 seed St. Joe's in the first round. If Uconn falls 0.1 seconds short in that game (or one more missed shot/one more St. Joe's made shot) they lose in the first round and Kevin Ollie probably doesn't have a job right now. Sometimes it takes catching that one big break that springboards a run.

Hopefully UC is still playing well in March, and gets a few things to bounce their way.

(01-24-2017 06:02 PM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 11:00 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 08:19 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  With that said, it's also fair for fans to expect more in the NCAA Tournament going forward. Losing the first game 3 of the past 4 seasons to teams from the Atlantic 10, Ivy League, and Missouri Valley (all considered mid-major conferences at best), was disappointing. Especially so coming out of the best conference ever during 3 of those years. If not for Caupain's heroics at the hoop against Purdue, that could easily be four straight first game losses.

But if not for Ellis's dunk being a millisecond late (or Clark being hurt), UC could have easily been into the second round last year, and then, who knows? The what-ifs don't always have to be negative. Luck has more to do with the NCAA tournament than people care to acknowledge. Hopefully we get some good luck this season.

Mick's first tournament team was poised to make a run and was playing pretty good basketball but unfortunately ran into a player/team that wouldn't be denied. UC played them about as tough as anyone else did that March, but unfortunately fell a bit short.

Kilpatrick's three to tie against Creighton going in and out with about 10 seconds left. Who knows what would have happened if that dropped.

The Harvard game was a really tough draw. Harvard was a 12 seed but ranked 32 in Kenpom. Only 5 spots behind UC. There were 14 teams that made the tournament that year that were lower than Harvard on Kenpom but got a higher seed. UC still should have/could have won, but it was a tough draw.

Keep making the tournament every year and eventually the stars will align and UC will make a run.

Uconn's last National Championship they won, they were a seven seed and won a game in overtime (in a game they probably should have lost) to #10 seed St. Joe's in the first round. If Uconn falls 0.1 seconds short in that game (or one more missed shot/one more St. Joe's made shot) they lose in the first round and Kevin Ollie probably doesn't have a job right now. Sometimes it takes catching that one big break that springboards a run.

Hopefully UC is still playing well in March, and gets a few things to bounce their way.

Never seen so many point blank shots that rimmed out as I did against Harvard.

(01-24-2017 06:02 PM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 11:00 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 08:19 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  With that said, it's also fair for fans to expect more in the NCAA Tournament going forward. Losing the first game 3 of the past 4 seasons to teams from the Atlantic 10, Ivy League, and Missouri Valley (all considered mid-major conferences at best), was disappointing. Especially so coming out of the best conference ever during 3 of those years. If not for Caupain's heroics at the hoop against Purdue, that could easily be four straight first game losses.

But if not for Ellis's dunk being a millisecond late (or Clark being hurt), UC could have easily been into the second round last year, and then, who knows? The what-ifs don't always have to be negative. Luck has more to do with the NCAA tournament than people care to acknowledge. Hopefully we get some good luck this season.

Mick's first tournament team was poised to make a run and was playing pretty good basketball but unfortunately ran into a player/team that wouldn't be denied. UC played them about as tough as anyone else did that March, but unfortunately fell a bit short.

Kilpatrick's three to tie against Creighton going in and out with about 10 seconds left. Who knows what would have happened if that dropped.

The Harvard game was a really tough draw. Harvard was a 12 seed but ranked 32 in Kenpom. Only 5 spots behind UC. There were 14 teams that made the tournament that year that were lower than Harvard on Kenpom but got a higher seed. UC still should have/could have won, but it was a tough draw.

Keep making the tournament every year and eventually the stars will align and UC will make a run.

Uconn's last National Championship they won, they were a seven seed and won a game in overtime (in a game they probably should have lost) to #10 seed St. Joe's in the first round. If Uconn falls 0.1 seconds short in that game (or one more missed shot/one more St. Joe's made shot) they lose in the first round and Kevin Ollie probably doesn't have a job right now. Sometimes it takes catching that one big break that springboards a run.

Hopefully UC is still playing well in March, and gets a few things to bounce their way.

i doubt at this rate mick even sniffs the hall of fame

(01-24-2017 09:43 AM)bulldog23 Wrote:  If mick let go of his little man complex he would be one of best in business. No coach prepares his team for big games like mick. Go grab a couple aau coaches to get better recruits and let everything else fall in place. Its not hard to gobble up wins at Cincinnati in the aac. Now you have talent its time win when it matters. After 11yrs I became frustrated with huggs for same reason. To be fair huggs was better recruiter but mick would've had a championship in 90's-2000's if he had teams huggs had. He coaches scrubs brilliant now I want see how he coaches talent.

If you start getting AAU coaches doesn't that mean you have to let go of some you have?

(01-24-2017 06:02 PM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 11:00 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 08:19 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  With that said, it's also fair for fans to expect more in the NCAA Tournament going forward. Losing the first game 3 of the past 4 seasons to teams from the Atlantic 10, Ivy League, and Missouri Valley (all considered mid-major conferences at best), was disappointing. Especially so coming out of the best conference ever during 3 of those years. If not for Caupain's heroics at the hoop against Purdue, that could easily be four straight first game losses.

But if not for Ellis's dunk being a millisecond late (or Clark being hurt), UC could have easily been into the second round last year, and then, who knows? The what-ifs don't always have to be negative. Luck has more to do with the NCAA tournament than people care to acknowledge. Hopefully we get some good luck this season.

Mick's first tournament team was poised to make a run and was playing pretty good basketball but unfortunately ran into a player/team that wouldn't be denied. UC played them about as tough as anyone else did that March, but unfortunately fell a bit short.

Kilpatrick's three to tie against Creighton going in and out with about 10 seconds left. Who knows what would have happened if that dropped.

The Harvard game was a really tough draw. Harvard was a 12 seed but ranked 32 in Kenpom. Only 5 spots behind UC. There were 14 teams that made the tournament that year that were lower than Harvard on Kenpom but got a higher seed. UC still should have/could have won, but it was a tough draw.

Keep making the tournament every year and eventually the stars will align and UC will make a run.

Uconn's last National Championship they won, they were a seven seed and won a game in overtime (in a game they probably should have lost) to #10 seed St. Joe's in the first round. If Uconn falls 0.1 seconds short in that game (or one more missed shot/one more St. Joe's made shot) they lose in the first round and Kevin Ollie probably doesn't have a job right now. Sometimes it takes catching that one big break that springboards a run.

Hopefully UC is still playing well in March, and gets a few things to bounce their way.

Good summary of our history in the NCAA. I want To win so bad in many ways for Mick to be successful. I'd love to see him make a deep run, if for no other reason than his own efforts.