The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(01-23-2017 02:47 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  I don't know a ton about Green, just read scouting reports and people on here. I thought his issue (besides needing to gain strength) was outside shooting?

I saw him play in high school. I don't know who's telling you he's not a good outside shooter, but they are way off. I didn't see many weaknesses other than his strength and his defense, which I am sure both areas have seen great improvement since he's been here. He is also a phenomenal passer. He is also a great ball handler.

My expectations are to make the NCAA Tournament next year. The talent is there. Bring in a big man and I think it will happen.

ESPN Analyst
Updated 12/10/2015
Strengths:
Green has a unique combination of size and playmaking ability with the ball in his hands. He's a good ball-handler, outstanding passer and under-rated (and improving shooter) who is capable of playing all three perimeter positions. He's very smooth with the ball in his hands, utilizes his length effectively to play with great economy of motion and can facilitate for those around him with his court vision and passing instincts. He shows flashes of making some very high level plays off the bounce and also has the tools to develop into a good defender.
Weaknesses:
He's undeniably talented but still learning to be efficient and so his minutes dipped on a very talented Team Loaded squad this summer. While his decision making and overall impact need to continue to progress to reach his natural talent, he also needs to develop his body. Right now he's long, lean and not consistently able to play through contact. While he's not quite as bad of a shooter as some suggest, in large part because he picks his spots well, he needs to continue to develop that area of his game as well.
Bottom Line:
He needs to get stronger and more significant but his size, length, smoothness, court vision and playmaking instincts give him a significant upside once he learns to put all the pieces together on a consistent basis.

(01-23-2017 02:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  ESPN Analyst
Updated 12/10/2015
Strengths:
Green has a unique combination of size and playmaking ability with the ball in his hands. He's a good ball-handler, outstanding passer and under-rated (and improving shooter) who is capable of playing all three perimeter positions. He's very smooth with the ball in his hands, utilizes his length effectively to play with great economy of motion and can facilitate for those around him with his court vision and passing instincts. He shows flashes of making some very high level plays off the bounce and also has the tools to develop into a good defender.
Weaknesses:
He's undeniably talented but still learning to be efficient and so his minutes dipped on a very talented Team Loaded squad this summer. While his decision making and overall impact need to continue to progress to reach his natural talent, he also needs to develop his body. Right now he's long, lean and not consistently able to play through contact. While he's not quite as bad of a shooter as some suggest, in large part because he picks his spots well, he needs to continue to develop that area of his game as well.
Bottom Line:
He needs to get stronger and more significant but his size, length, smoothness, court vision and playmaking instincts give him a significant upside once he learns to put all the pieces together on a consistent basis.

Interesting...I am not gonna agree with it but these guys know more than I do. From what I saw, he can shoot it. His mechanics are great too.

Vegas 8, CIT and CBI are the same as the low level 'ESPN invented just for filling the end of football TV schedule" bowls. It's amazing to me some amay folks look own at playing and winning the Vegas 8 or CBI but cream your jeans over the Bahamas Bowl and like bowls that can include 6-6 or even 5-7 teams.

(01-23-2017 05:37 PM)Monarch Homselr Wrote:  Vegas 8, CIT and CBI are the same as the low level 'ESPN invented just for filling the end of football TV schedule" bowls. It's amazing to me some amay folks look own at playing and winning the Vegas 8 or CBI but cream your jeans over the Bahamas Bowl and like bowls that can include 6-6 or even 5-7 teams.

The Bahamas Bowl was ODU's first bowl game.

Basketball has been to the NCAAs multiple times and has won games in a few of them. Converted to football, the Vegas/CBI/CIT is like going to the Bahamas when you've gone to the Belk or Military Bowl with relative regularity and occasionally get to go to the Outback or Peach Bowl.

(01-23-2017 10:34 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-23-2017 10:14 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  JJ is currently 81-47 at ODU (.633). He's taken us to a postseason tournament three out of four years and has an NIT Final Four under his belt. The overall talent and depth has increased every year and is trending up.

There is no reasonable argument to justify firing him.

Can we just stop with the "postseason" nonsense? It is embarrassing to tout a trip to the Vegas 8 or one of the ChIT tournaments. We have a banner hanging touting those things for pete's sake. I guess that tells you all you need to know about the aspirations of the current admin.

I don't disagree with your statement, but I think football fans could say the same thing about playing in any bowl game that isn't one of the big 5 or 6.

(01-23-2017 06:08 PM)ODU Hoops Wrote:  

(01-23-2017 10:34 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-23-2017 10:14 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  JJ is currently 81-47 at ODU (.633). He's taken us to a postseason tournament three out of four years and has an NIT Final Four under his belt. The overall talent and depth has increased every year and is trending up.

There is no reasonable argument to justify firing him.

Can we just stop with the "postseason" nonsense? It is embarrassing to tout a trip to the Vegas 8 or one of the ChIT tournaments. We have a banner hanging touting those things for pete's sake. I guess that tells you all you need to know about the aspirations of the current admin.

I don't disagree with your statement, but I think football fans could say the same thing about playing in any bowl game that isn't one of the big 5 or 6.

You are not wrong, but I agree with Cyniclone's statement above. Our football team is new and that was our first bowl game. They also earned their way into the Bahamas bowl with a really good record and were in position to win the conference (albeit a long shot) on the last weekend of the regular season. It was the best season in school history, it exceeded any reasonable expectation from a program as young as ours, and we were picked to finish second to last in the division. Beyond that, our football team finished ranked higher than our basketball team will in just its second full year of competing at the FBS level.

So, while the comparison seems reasonable on the surface, it is really apples to oranges IMO.

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(01-23-2017 12:26 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  odufansam, looking at the 2013-2014 roster and the 2016-2017 roster, I'm not sure how you can make that statement.

PG - Keenan Palmore vs. Ahmad Caver - Advantage Caver, by far!
SG - Aaron Bacote vs. BJ Stith - Push
SF - Ambrose Mosley vs. Zoran Talley - Advantage Talley, by far!
PF - Denzel Taylor (freshman) vs. Denzel Taylor (senior) - Advantage Sr. year, by far!
C - Richard Ross vs. Brandan Stith - Advantage Stith, by a little

Bench - Batten, Baker (freshman) vs. Porter, Baker (senior), Haynes - Advantage this year, by far!

Spin things whichever way you like, but the reality is that we were better in year two than we were in year three, and better in year three than year four. It seems the more of those pre JJ recruits we lose, the worse we get. No matter how you cut it, we have been trending down since the second half of JJ's second season.

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(01-23-2017 05:37 PM)Monarch Homselr Wrote:  Vegas 8, CIT and CBI are the same as the low level 'ESPN invented just for filling the end of football TV schedule" bowls. It's amazing to me some amay folks look own at playing and winning the Vegas 8 or CBI but cream your jeans over the Bahamas Bowl and like bowls that can include 6-6 or even 5-7 teams.

ODU won 10 games this year. One can argue whether or not they got screwed out of a bigger bowl, but that takes nothing away from what they accomplished.

I have nothing against the basketball tournaments that you mentioned either, but at some point, you have to get past those.

4 teams go to the NCAA Football Tournament. 68 go in basketball.

(01-23-2017 09:37 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  It is recreation to discuss what "we" will do; when "we" will replace JJ and who "we"
are going to replace him with.
As I stated in another thread
Jeff Jones is easily doing enough to keep his job, for now.

-JJ and WS are personal friends.

- JJs ODU W/L percentage is better than that of BT. I know, I know, it's early in his tenure and this is not nearly as good a conference, but right now that is a factor

- BT didn't take us to the post season until his 4th season. JJ took us in his first and has since. (crap tourneys are irrelevant)

- Home attendance spiked to near record levels the past two seasons (over 7,000), after the huge drop in the season following the 2012/2013 BT disaster.



As long as we have a winning % and continue to get to (meaningful or not) a post season tournament, JJs job is secure, unless it hits us in the pocketbook.

The bottom line:
JJ will have to have an epic fail, like that of Blaine Taylor, OR the money stops coming in. Attendance/season tickets will have to drop significantly, and that may indeed be happening, as so far this year attendance is down almost 1000/game (6148) compared with the previous two seasons.
If that trend continues, or there is a significant drop in season ticket sales, over the next few years, then there will be a change; but probably not before.

Even all that might not be enough, as KB is still here.

I tend to agree. Barirng winning the conference tournament championship, my guess is that Wood will make a move to replace KB following completion of this season. That leaves the status of JJ. I just don't see Wood making a change any time soon. We simply are not going to buy out JJ given all of the other competing wants for budget dollars. Get used to it because I don't see any changes in that aspect of MBB.

(01-23-2017 06:24 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-23-2017 06:08 PM)ODU Hoops Wrote:  

(01-23-2017 10:34 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-23-2017 10:14 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  JJ is currently 81-47 at ODU (.633). He's taken us to a postseason tournament three out of four years and has an NIT Final Four under his belt. The overall talent and depth has increased every year and is trending up.

There is no reasonable argument to justify firing him.

Can we just stop with the "postseason" nonsense? It is embarrassing to tout a trip to the Vegas 8 or one of the ChIT tournaments. We have a banner hanging touting those things for pete's sake. I guess that tells you all you need to know about the aspirations of the current admin.

I don't disagree with your statement, but I think football fans could say the same thing about playing in any bowl game that isn't one of the big 5 or 6.

You are not wrong, but I agree with Cyniclone's statement above. Our football team is new and that was our first bowl game. They also earned their way into the Bahamas bowl with a really good record and were in position to win the conference (albeit a long shot) on the last weekend of the regular season. It was the best season in school history, it exceeded any reasonable expectation from a program as young as ours, and we were picked to finish second to last in the division. Beyond that, our football team finished ranked higher than our basketball team will in just its second full year of competing at the FBS level.

So, while the comparison seems reasonable on the surface, it is really apples to oranges IMO.

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If we were a basketball team that just moved up to division one a few seasons ago (like say Grand Canyon or Longwood) then the CBI/CIT/Vegas would be great. We have a proud tradition of mens basketball success at the top level for over 30 years. Most of the P5 look down their noses at the NIT and call it "not in tournament". We are happy with both the NIT and the NCAA which is appropriate at our level. A pay to play no name tournament means we didnt meet our goals. On the other hand, football is brand new, so a winning season and a mediocre bowl is worth getting excited about. Plus, there really isn't much better that we can strive for. The best bowls associated with CUSA are the Heart of Dallas and Armed Forces. Thats as good as it gets. Not much better than the Bahamas. Meanwhile, ODU basketball can legitimately strive for a sweet sixteen appearance and hope that with some luck we can do even better than that in the NCAA tournament.

(01-23-2017 09:37 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  It is recreation to discuss what "we" will do; when "we" will replace JJ and who "we"
are going to replace him with.
As I stated in another thread
Jeff Jones is easily doing enough to keep his job, for now.

-JJ and WS are personal friends.

- JJs ODU W/L percentage is better than that of BT. I know, I know, it's early in his tenure and this is not nearly as good a conference, but right now that is a factor

- BT didn't take us to the post season until his 4th season. JJ took us in his first and has since. (crap tourneys are irrelevant)

- Home attendance spiked to near record levels the past two seasons (over 7,000), after the huge drop in the season following the 2012/2013 BT disaster.

As long as we have a winning % and continue to get to (meaningful or not) a post season tournament, JJs job is secure, unless it hits us in the pocketbook.

The bottom line:
JJ will have to have an epic fail, like that of Blaine Taylor, OR the money stops coming in. Attendance/season tickets will have to drop significantly, and that may indeed be happening, as so far this year attendance is down almost 1000/game (6148) compared with the previous two seasons.
If that trend continues, or there is a significant drop in season ticket sales, over the next few years, then there will be a change; but probably not before.

Even all that might no be enough, as KB is still here.

Looks like we need to fire wood selig then.

Of course, that's really what we've needed all along.

He's overseen the total collapse of the men's and women's hoops program, the field hockey program and the stadium disaster.

I'm honestly not sure what he's gotten right so far....

(01-25-2017 12:54 AM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(01-23-2017 09:37 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  It is recreation to discuss what "we" will do; when "we" will replace JJ and who "we"
are going to replace him with.
As I stated in another thread
Jeff Jones is easily doing enough to keep his job, for now.

-JJ and WS are personal friends.

- JJs ODU W/L percentage is better than that of BT. I know, I know, it's early in his tenure and this is not nearly as good a conference, but right now that is a factor

- BT didn't take us to the post season until his 4th season. JJ took us in his first and has since. (crap tourneys are irrelevant)

- Home attendance spiked to near record levels the past two seasons (over 7,000), after the huge drop in the season following the 2012/2013 BT disaster.

As long as we have a winning % and continue to get to (meaningful or not) a post season tournament, JJs job is secure, unless it hits us in the pocketbook.

The bottom line:
JJ will have to have an epic fail, like that of Blaine Taylor, OR the money stops coming in. Attendance/season tickets will have to drop significantly, and that may indeed be happening, as so far this year attendance is down almost 1000/game (6148) compared with the previous two seasons.
If that trend continues, or there is a significant drop in season ticket sales, over the next few years, then there will be a change; but probably not before.

Even all that might no be enough, as KB is still here.

Looks like we need to fire wood selig then.

Of course, that's really what we've needed all along.

He's overseen the total collapse of the men's and women's hoops program, the field hockey program and the stadium disaster.

I'm honestly not sure what he's gotten right so far....

Now we're talking! Finally to the root of the problem!