(01-17-2017 04:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 09:02 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Vandy does great in baseball and other sports and uk does fine in basketball and other sports. A conference is more than just one sport.

The OP does not mention any sport, in either the piece or the subject line, so by implication it not asking about just one sport.

But since Vandy won the SEC BBall Tourney in 2012, Women's Tennis in 2015, women's cross-country in 2011, while Kentucky is the reigning Tourney champion and was women's soccer champions in 2006, the question as written doesn't make much sense.

Yes it does Bruce. It is another of this board's G5 set ups to say that there are schools within the P5 that shouldn't be there based upon some kind of nebulous sports record rather than maturely looking at a picture that encompasses all facets of realignment where size of fan base, size of endowments, levels of research, minimum ACT & SAT scores for entrance, number of post graduates, ability to draw a crowd of viewers on the tube, the % and size of travelling fan bases, and total value to a conference are actually measured.

It is the only approach by which some schools can stake a claim to belong. We're better than Kentucky in football. We are better than Indiana in football. We are better than Wake Forest in football (although Wake just had a good year), and usually they toss in Purdue.

There are many reasons there are oodles of schools, which can gain some notoriety in football, that will never be considered for peer relationships, or as a member of a shared conference, by the large state schools invested in research, which happen to pack their venue with 80,0000 plus week after week, and which can score at least a !/3rd share of football viewers on a Saturday.

As Tommy Lee Jones says in No Country for Old Men, "It's not just the one thing, it's the dismal tide". These threads are designed to look at the one thing, and ignore the dismal tide of other exclusionary factors.

(01-16-2017 09:44 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 07:47 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  For that matter, will Indiana ever win the Big Ten again?

All it takes is the right coach.

Wisconsin was a dormat before Barry Alverez showed up and since then, they have been to 6 Rose Bowls.

Northwestern was THE worst Power conference program before Gary Barnett turned them around and they went to the Rose Bowl.

Purdue was awful before and after Joe Tiller but he got them to a Rose Bowl.

If Purdue and Norrhwestern can make it to Rose Bowls, any school in the Big Ten can.

Purdue is a bad example.

You say they were "awful before and after Tiller" but it was really only 1982-1996 and 2009-present that they were awful. They won conference championships in every decade until the 70s, and from 1973-1980 they finished in the top half of the conference 7 times and finished ranked 3 times (78, 79, 80). They also were nationally relevant under Tiller (5 ranked seasons from 97-03).

Purdue is the Cradle of Quarterbacks, with 11 NFL QBs and 3 QBs who went on to win Super Bowls.

Unlike Mississippi State, Washington State, or Wake Forest, Purdue is a peer institution of its conference-mates. It has 40k students, 430k living alumni, a $2.4 billion endowment, similar academics to the rest of the Big 10, and is 2 hours from Chicago (and 1 hour from Indianapolis).

Purdue is down now. But it has the resources to compete (maybe not with Ohio State or Alabama, but certainly with Michigan State or Virginia Tech). Its history proves that.

(01-16-2017 07:47 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  For that matter, will Indiana ever win the Big Ten again?

Indiana, Minnesota and Purdue tied for the Big 10 title in 1967 and all 3 spent a good bit of time in the top 10. Last time IU or MN won the Big 10.

And as mentioned, Northwestern has won 3 Big 10 titles after being the doormat of FBS. The only one who challenged them for the title of ultimate doormat was Kansas St. who won the Big 12 about 5 years back.

Bear Bryant did well at Kentucky. They just need an incredible coach. It is the same for Vandy and other schools in their position. Not a tough question to answer.

(01-16-2017 07:47 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  For that matter, will Indiana ever win the Big Ten again?

Fun Fact: IU is 9-55 all-time against Michigan; 12-72-5 against Ohio State (most of those wins came pre-1950 before Ohio State became a power).

One thing Kentucky and Indiana have in common is the states do not have a lot of home grown football talent. Moreover, the best ones in their states usually leave to go to the better B10 football programs, Notre Dame and/or schools like Louisville, Cincinnati, Pitt and WVU.

I don't see those schools winning their conference in FB anytime soon.

Kentucky probably had their best chance to win the SEC East this year, but losing to Florida who managed to snatch a victory in Death Valley was a killer. Of course then Kentucky would have had a rematch against my other alma mater, but Kenticky has similar offensive weapons to Clemson, just not the same caliber.

I should've specifically said football in the OP, although the tone and end of football season kinda implies we aren't talking about Kentucky winning in basketball.

It's a mathematical certainty that they will.

That said, it may not be in my lifetime, or my great grandchildren's lifetimes.

I think most of the SEC is hoping for them though. Nobody really hates those two programs.

(01-18-2017 12:54 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It's a mathematical certainty that they will.

That said, it may not be in my lifetime, or my great grandchildren's lifetimes.

I think most of the SEC is hoping for them though. Nobody really hates those two programs.

I have been talking to a girl who is a Kentucky fan so I am rooting for the Wildcats to make good in football. I hide my disdain for their basketball.

(01-17-2017 02:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 04:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 09:02 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Vandy does great in baseball and other sports and uk does fine in basketball and other sports. A conference is more than just one sport.

The OP does not mention any sport, in either the piece or the subject line, so by implication it not asking about just one sport.

But since Vandy won the SEC BBall Tourney in 2012, Women's Tennis in 2015, women's cross-country in 2011, while Kentucky is the reigning Tourney champion and was women's soccer champions in 2006, the question as written doesn't make much sense.

Yes it does Bruce. It is another of this board's G5 set ups to say that there are schools within the P5 that shouldn't be there based upon some kind of nebulous sports record rather than maturely looking at a picture that encompasses all facets of realignment where size of fan base, size of endowments, levels of research, minimum ACT & SAT scores for entrance, number of post graduates, ability to draw a crowd of viewers on the tube, the % and size of travelling fan bases, and total value to a conference are actually measured.

It is the only approach by which some schools can stake a claim to belong. We're better than Kentucky in football. We are better than Indiana in football. We are better than Wake Forest in football (although Wake just had a good year), and usually they toss in Purdue.

There are many reasons there are oodles of schools, which can gain some notoriety in football, that will never be considered for peer relationships, or as a member of a shared conference, by the large state schools invested in research, which happen to pack their venue with 80,0000 plus week after week, and which can score at least a !/3rd share of football viewers on a Saturday.

As Tommy Lee Jones says in No Country for Old Men, "It's not just the one thing, it's the dismal tide". These threads are designed to look at the one thing, and ignore the dismal tide of other exclusionary factors.

While there are those who look at this from a sports perspective, the fact is that many P5 schools do not belong based on off-the-field criteria as well. The upper half of the American Conference is clearly better than Ole Miss, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Arkansas, Washington State, Oregon State, Kansas State, Texas Tech, West Virginia, and Louisville when it comes to off-the-field metrics.

While some of these belong in the P5 based on their fanbase or their winning teams, many are clearly lacking in those categories too.

(01-20-2017 07:22 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 02:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 04:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 09:02 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Vandy does great in baseball and other sports and uk does fine in basketball and other sports. A conference is more than just one sport.

The OP does not mention any sport, in either the piece or the subject line, so by implication it not asking about just one sport.

But since Vandy won the SEC BBall Tourney in 2012, Women's Tennis in 2015, women's cross-country in 2011, while Kentucky is the reigning Tourney champion and was women's soccer champions in 2006, the question as written doesn't make much sense.

Yes it does Bruce. It is another of this board's G5 set ups to say that there are schools within the P5 that shouldn't be there based upon some kind of nebulous sports record rather than maturely looking at a picture that encompasses all facets of realignment where size of fan base, size of endowments, levels of research, minimum ACT & SAT scores for entrance, number of post graduates, ability to draw a crowd of viewers on the tube, the % and size of travelling fan bases, and total value to a conference are actually measured.

It is the only approach by which some schools can stake a claim to belong. We're better than Kentucky in football. We are better than Indiana in football. We are better than Wake Forest in football (although Wake just had a good year), and usually they toss in Purdue.

There are many reasons there are oodles of schools, which can gain some notoriety in football, that will never be considered for peer relationships, or as a member of a shared conference, by the large state schools invested in research, which happen to pack their venue with 80,0000 plus week after week, and which can score at least a !/3rd share of football viewers on a Saturday.

As Tommy Lee Jones says in No Country for Old Men, "It's not just the one thing, it's the dismal tide". These threads are designed to look at the one thing, and ignore the dismal tide of other exclusionary factors.

While there are those who look at this from a sports perspective, the fact is that many P5 schools do not belong based on off-the-field criteria as well. The upper half of the American Conference is clearly better than Ole Miss, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Arkansas, Washington State, Oregon State, Kansas State, Texas Tech, West Virginia, and Louisville when it comes to off-the-field metrics.

While some of these belong in the P5 based on their fanbase or their winning teams, many are clearly lacking in those categories too.

Cite your facts across the spectrum of factors I listed: Attendance, Endowment, Athletic Department Revenue, Travel Size, Academics, Market Penetration, Flagship Status, and On Field/Court Performance. You are still cherry picking your criteria. BTW, the criteria I cited are all factors considered in SEC expansion.

(01-20-2017 07:22 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 02:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 04:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 09:02 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Vandy does great in baseball and other sports and uk does fine in basketball and other sports. A conference is more than just one sport.

The OP does not mention any sport, in either the piece or the subject line, so by implication it not asking about just one sport.

But since Vandy won the SEC BBall Tourney in 2012, Women's Tennis in 2015, women's cross-country in 2011, while Kentucky is the reigning Tourney champion and was women's soccer champions in 2006, the question as written doesn't make much sense.

Yes it does Bruce. It is another of this board's G5 set ups to say that there are schools within the P5 that shouldn't be there based upon some kind of nebulous sports record rather than maturely looking at a picture that encompasses all facets of realignment where size of fan base, size of endowments, levels of research, minimum ACT & SAT scores for entrance, number of post graduates, ability to draw a crowd of viewers on the tube, the % and size of travelling fan bases, and total value to a conference are actually measured.

It is the only approach by which some schools can stake a claim to belong. We're better than Kentucky in football. We are better than Indiana in football. We are better than Wake Forest in football (although Wake just had a good year), and usually they toss in Purdue.

There are many reasons there are oodles of schools, which can gain some notoriety in football, that will never be considered for peer relationships, or as a member of a shared conference, by the large state schools invested in research, which happen to pack their venue with 80,0000 plus week after week, and which can score at least a !/3rd share of football viewers on a Saturday.

As Tommy Lee Jones says in No Country for Old Men, "It's not just the one thing, it's the dismal tide". These threads are designed to look at the one thing, and ignore the dismal tide of other exclusionary factors.

While there are those who look at this from a sports perspective, the fact is that many P5 schools do not belong based on off-the-field criteria as well. The upper half of the American Conference is clearly better than Ole Miss, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Arkansas, Washington State, Oregon State, Kansas State, Texas Tech, West Virginia, and Louisville when it comes to off-the-field metrics.

While some of these belong in the P5 based on their fanbase or their winning teams, many are clearly lacking in those categories too.

That's a flawed argument either way. It's like going into a job interview at Apple, the interviewer asks you, "Tell me why Apple should hire you," and the answer is, "I'm a little better than your worst engineer." It would never be convincing for a job candidate to compare him or her self to someone the company might not hire again if the hiring decision was made today.

As much as chance as Rutgers winning the Big 10. There's a chance.

Cheers!

(01-21-2017 06:29 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 07:22 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 02:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 04:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 09:02 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Vandy does great in baseball and other sports and uk does fine in basketball and other sports. A conference is more than just one sport.

The OP does not mention any sport, in either the piece or the subject line, so by implication it not asking about just one sport.

But since Vandy won the SEC BBall Tourney in 2012, Women's Tennis in 2015, women's cross-country in 2011, while Kentucky is the reigning Tourney champion and was women's soccer champions in 2006, the question as written doesn't make much sense.

Yes it does Bruce. It is another of this board's G5 set ups to say that there are schools within the P5 that shouldn't be there based upon some kind of nebulous sports record rather than maturely looking at a picture that encompasses all facets of realignment where size of fan base, size of endowments, levels of research, minimum ACT & SAT scores for entrance, number of post graduates, ability to draw a crowd of viewers on the tube, the % and size of travelling fan bases, and total value to a conference are actually measured.

It is the only approach by which some schools can stake a claim to belong. We're better than Kentucky in football. We are better than Indiana in football. We are better than Wake Forest in football (although Wake just had a good year), and usually they toss in Purdue.

There are many reasons there are oodles of schools, which can gain some notoriety in football, that will never be considered for peer relationships, or as a member of a shared conference, by the large state schools invested in research, which happen to pack their venue with 80,0000 plus week after week, and which can score at least a !/3rd share of football viewers on a Saturday.

As Tommy Lee Jones says in No Country for Old Men, "It's not just the one thing, it's the dismal tide". These threads are designed to look at the one thing, and ignore the dismal tide of other exclusionary factors.

While there are those who look at this from a sports perspective, the fact is that many P5 schools do not belong based on off-the-field criteria as well. The upper half of the American Conference is clearly better than Ole Miss, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Arkansas, Washington State, Oregon State, Kansas State, Texas Tech, West Virginia, and Louisville when it comes to off-the-field metrics.

While some of these belong in the P5 based on their fanbase or their winning teams, many are clearly lacking in those categories too.

That's a flawed argument either way. It's like going into a job interview at Apple, the interviewer asks you, "Tell me why Apple should hire you," and the answer is, "I'm a little better than your worst engineer." It would never be convincing for a job candidate to compare him or her self to someone the company might not hire again if the hiring decision was made today.

Why would anyone want to work at Apple?

(01-21-2017 07:56 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  As much as chance as Rutgers winning the Big 10. There's a chance.

Cheers!

There isn't a darn thing wrong with Rudy or Eddie the Eagle.
Proud parents and fans. Competition at the highest level!