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stever20 Online
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Post: #1
baseball HOF
So who do folks think will make the Hall of Fame tonight at 6pm et?

I think Bagwell and Raines do. Hoffman maybe as well.

It'll be interesting to see where Clemens and Bonds go this year- year 5 of their chances.
01-18-2017 11:38 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #2
RE: baseball HOF
Jeff Bagwell
Tim Raines
Pudge Rodriguez
01-18-2017 06:04 PM
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stever20 Online
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RE: baseball HOF
Hoffman missed by 5 votes.
Vlad Guerrero missed by 15 votes.

Clemens and Bonds up over 50% now.
01-18-2017 06:17 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: baseball HOF
These three bullet points are enough to explain why Raines belongs in the Hall:

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18461...-hall-fame
Quote:-- Over the seven seasons from 1981 to 1987, Raines led the National League in singles, doubles, triples and walks. In other words, he was so good at reaching base, he led his league in pretty much every way it's possible to "reach base."

-- And what seals it for many voters is the list of slam-dunk Hall of Famers who got on base fewer times than Raines did: Lou Brock, Roberto Clemente, Roberto Alomar, Ernie Banks, Mike Schmidt and Tony Gwynn. Just to name a half-dozen.

-- If you noticed the name of Gwynn on that list, so did lots of voters. They made a point of mentioning it to us. Raines and Gwynn played in the same generation and had careers of nearly the same length. But even though Gwynn got 536 more hits and beat Raines in batting average by 44 points, Raines' ability to draw walks made their OBPs almost identical (.388 for Gwynn, .385 for Raines) -- and Raines' baserunning brilliance enabled him to reach scoring position so often, he scored almost 200 more runs than Gwynn.
01-18-2017 06:23 PM
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BlazerJoe Offline
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Post: #5
RE: baseball HOF
Bonds and Clemens will probably be in eventually.
01-18-2017 06:30 PM
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C2__ Offline
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RE: baseball HOF
Well overdue for Bagwell, speaking as a homer and a realist. The Steroid Era guilt by association and having his numbers, for lack of a better phrase, retarded by the cavernous Astrodome is what slowed his election. If he wasn't a First Ballot guy then he was close. One of the best all around players ever (hitting, baserunning and fielding).
01-18-2017 06:55 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #7
RE: baseball HOF
1 thing that was huge IMO was only Vlad and Manny Ramirez from the newcomers that didn't make the HOF got 5% so the rest of them dropped off the ballot.

so like for instance-
2016 ballot had 18 guys on it that had been there before
2017 ballot had 15 guys on it that had been there before
2018 ballot will have 14 guys on it that had been there before

a lot less clutter on the ballot now than before.
01-19-2017 12:46 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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baseball HOF
They should put the steroid guys in since we have very few confirmed users
01-20-2017 09:18 AM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: baseball HOF
(01-20-2017 09:18 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  They should put the steroid guys in since we have very few confirmed users

They'll get in eventually. As time passes, this realization will sink in: PED users are already in the Hall of Fame.
01-20-2017 03:09 PM
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HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Offline
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Post: #10
RE: baseball HOF
Put in Billy Martin and Danny Murtaugh.
01-20-2017 03:27 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #11
RE: baseball HOF
(01-20-2017 03:09 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-20-2017 09:18 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  They should put the steroid guys in since we have very few confirmed users

They'll get in eventually. As time passes, this realization will sink in: PED users are already in the Hall of Fame.

Doesn't mean they should let in admitted PED users and those who are grandfathered in like those already in the HOF.
01-20-2017 07:29 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: baseball HOF
(01-20-2017 07:29 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(01-20-2017 03:09 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-20-2017 09:18 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  They should put the steroid guys in since we have very few confirmed users

They'll get in eventually. As time passes, this realization will sink in: PED users are already in the Hall of Fame.

Doesn't mean they should let in admitted PED users and those who are grandfathered in like those already in the HOF.

I think after a few more years, the voters will shrug their shoulders and vote 'em in. We're not as naive now about PEDs as we were 20 years ago. We know that if someone wins the Tour de France 7 years in a row and all his closest competitors were caught or admitted dopers, he wasn't riding "clean". We know that when a power pitcher looks almost as dominant after age 40 as he did at 32, it's not just because he takes Advil and rides a stationary bike between starts.
(This post was last modified: 01-20-2017 10:32 PM by Wedge.)
01-20-2017 10:31 PM
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C2__ Offline
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RE: baseball HOF
I hear what you're saying but unless people admit to their crimes, then it's not fair to turn it into a witch hunt and lump them in with admitted users and those who are highly suspected of using via credible sources (i.e. not hearsay and guilt by association).
01-21-2017 04:00 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #14
RE: baseball HOF
The HOF doesn't have to name all the PED users who were lucky enough to not be busted. All the voters have to do is accept that the usage was/is sufficiently widespread that they've already put dopers in the Hall, and that being an uncaught doper is not more noble or righteous than being a caught doper.
01-21-2017 12:42 PM
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RE: baseball HOF
We can agree to disagree and honestly, who cares? If you're a dedicated enough fan, you'll figure out who the best players were of each era and the stories behind them, such as all we've heard about Ty Cobb. I never got the big deal about making the Hall of Fame so exclusive, it's supposed to be celebrating the history of the game of baseball, not be some snobby elitist social club. Voters need to step back and ask themselves what terms like "first ballot HoF" even means, why can't a player that went some All-Star games but was never really too, too great go? I know you don't want to lower the bar too low but geesh, the ideology is idiotic.
01-21-2017 10:09 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #16
RE: baseball HOF
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18577...ers-get-in

Quote:The way Hall of Famer Frank Thomas sees it, Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens might as well be enshrined if players linked to performance-enhancing drugs are getting elected.

The Big Hurt, a longtime critic of players using PEDs, spoke out again during the Chicago White Sox's annual fan convention Saturday.

"They should be in now, as far as I'm concerned," Thomas said. "They've let a few people in already we all know. It's uncomfortable at this point. I'm sure this year's going to be uncomfortable because we've got two great players going in, but they know. It's no secret. If they didn't do it, they would be stomping and kicking and in interviews saying, 'I didn't do it.'"
01-29-2017 09:35 PM
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