WMU @EMU 1,485 (17% capacity)
Ohio @Akron 3,598 (65% capacity)
UB @ Kent State 2,110 (33% capacity)
Miami @ NIU 1,053 (11% capacity)
CMU @ Ball State 3,044 (26% capacity)
BG @ Toledo 5,118 (70% capacity)

Last night wasn't the best night to showcase crowds in our league... with 3 decent attendance figures, capacity % was a big shocker to me. Not only should we strive for better numbers at the gate, we should move into smaller venues!

Rumor has it that Miami will announce a new arena or major Millett renovation plans around the end of the season, probably to coincide with what we'd expect to be a new men's basketball coach hiring (hopefully women's too). In that case I'd expect us to significantly downsize from Millett, which is well over 9K capacity now.

Have to love the MAC's scheduling..."Let's put the big UT/BG rivalry game on a Tuesday night". Still a pretty good crowd considering Toledo's attendance #s this season, but I think a Saturday night would have drawn better, certainly more UT fans and probably more BG fans...

(01-18-2017 06:49 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  WMU @EMU 1,485 (17% capacity)
Ohio @Akron 3,598 (65% capacity)
UB @ Kent State 2,110 (33% capacity)
Miami @ NIU 1,053 (11% capacity)
CMU @ Ball State 3,044 (26% capacity)
BG @ Toledo 5,118 (70% capacity)

Great effort, NIU...Toledo's women's program averages 4x that number!

I hoped going in Akron/Ohio would be able to pull ~4200 (probably a bit too optimistic on my part considering it was a Tuesday), however, it fell short. The fans that did show witnessed some highlight reel worthy plays. There is no disputing the fact this team Akron team is more flashy than years past. Hopefully it gets fans wanting to come back for more.

I agree a good chunk of the conference plays in arenas that are too big. The thing is the 3 worst culprits of playing in large arenas while attracting small attendances are Ball State, EMU, and NIU. Ball State arena opened in 1992, EMU opened in 1997, and NIU arena opened in 2002. I don't see any of these schools looking to build a new arena anytime soon.

(01-18-2017 08:18 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  Have to love the MAC's scheduling..."Let's put the big UT/BG rivalry game on a Tuesday night". Still a pretty good crowd considering Toledo's attendance #s this season, but I think a Saturday night would have drawn better, certainly more UT fans and probably more BG fans...

We're playing at Miami on a Tuesday night. can you imagine the numbers from that game? Fives of tens of people will be there to witness another edition of the Battle of the Bricks! LOL

(01-18-2017 09:09 AM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 08:18 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  Have to love the MAC's scheduling..."Let's put the big UT/BG rivalry game on a Tuesday night". Still a pretty good crowd considering Toledo's attendance #s this season, but I think a Saturday night would have drawn better, certainly more UT fans and probably more BG fans...

We're playing at Miami on a Tuesday night. can you imagine the numbers from that game? Fives of tens of people will be there to witness another edition of the Battle of the Bricks! LOL

The MAC needs to learn to get out of its own way.

(01-18-2017 08:12 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Rumor has it that Miami will announce a new arena or major Millett renovation plans around the end of the season, probably to coincide with what we'd expect to be a new men's basketball coach hiring (hopefully women's too). In that case I'd expect us to significantly downsize from Millett, which is well over 9K capacity now.

Best of luck to you guys. You seriously face an uphill battle in attendance in Southwest Ohio, having to compete with UC, Xavier, Dayton, Wright State and now Northern Kentucky. I am sure a lot of your alums drive over to Columbus for games as well.

I remember the Miami of the 80 and early 90s. You are going to need to make a home run hire to turn your ship around.

(01-18-2017 08:12 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Rumor has it that Miami will announce a new arena or major Millett renovation plans around the end of the season, probably to coincide with what we'd expect to be a new men's basketball coach hiring (hopefully women's too). In that case I'd expect us to significantly downsize from Millett, which is well over 9K capacity now.

Big stadiums and arena are relics of the past when most games were not on television or webcast.

As we've discussed many times, many/most people aren't going to drive 25 miles or more to watch a game live which is available at home.

The 21st century metric: Attendance + metered viewers on TV or webcasting.

The major exception is say a B1G game with 15K fans who are screaming, jumping up and down, etc. etc. then the atmosphere becomes what is not available at home.
(I attended a MSU@Maryland game a few years ago and the place was electric).

NIU has a big arena with high school-ish concession stand arrangements and an old video board. The old Chick Evans field house had even less, but in there, even 2,000 people could make the place seem loud so the atmosphere was better, and that helped bring in more people.

The team would need to have some sustained success, then I think some people would jump on the bandwagon, though we'd probably still only get 3-4K, since some would just watch on E$PN3.

(01-18-2017 09:33 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 09:09 AM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 08:18 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  Have to love the MAC's scheduling..."Let's put the big UT/BG rivalry game on a Tuesday night". Still a pretty good crowd considering Toledo's attendance #s this season, but I think a Saturday night would have drawn better, certainly more UT fans and probably more BG fans...

We're playing at Miami on a Tuesday night. can you imagine the numbers from that game? Fives of tens of people will be there to witness another edition of the Battle of the Bricks! LOL

The MAC needs to learn to get out of its own way.

I gave up on that battle a few years ago. When I think of MAC leadership and MAC commish, this image ALWAYS comes to mind:

Back 2-3 years ago Summit County tried to get taxpayers to agree to fund a 9,000 seat arena for downtown Akron. Granted that arena would have been designed to serve a larger purpose than just to host Akron basketball games. If Akron ever financially gets on track and they find themselves in a position to build a new arena, I'd roughly want it to stay the size of the JAR (5K-6K seats).

The problem with the JAR isn't that it is a monstrosity. The problem lies in the fact it wasn't a great venue to watch basketball when it was built 30+ years ago and there is really no good way of remodeling it.

At some schools, students were not fully back yesterday. Attendance should pick up starting this weekend, though no guarantee it will.

(01-18-2017 12:00 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Back 2-3 years ago Summit County tried to get taxpayers to agree to fund a 9,000 seat arena for downtown Akron. Granted that arena would have been designed to serve a larger purpose than just to host Akron basketball games. If Akron ever financially gets on track and they find themselves in a position to build a new arena, I'd roughly want it to stay the size of the JAR (5K-6K seats).

The problem with the JAR isn't that it is a monstrosity. The problem lies in the fact it wasn't a great venue to watch basketball when it was built 30+ years ago and there is really no good way of remodeling it.

When i played travel ball, we played in the JAR a few times. I thought it was clunky. Odd blue bleachers that dont match the rest of the stadium. Small on floor student sections, and larger upperdeck built in seats. Its a weird set up. Similar to WMU's setup that has actually switched directions of the floor since it was built.

(01-18-2017 01:41 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 12:00 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Back 2-3 years ago Summit County tried to get taxpayers to agree to fund a 9,000 seat arena for downtown Akron. Granted that arena would have been designed to serve a larger purpose than just to host Akron basketball games. If Akron ever financially gets on track and they find themselves in a position to build a new arena, I'd roughly want it to stay the size of the JAR (5K-6K seats).

The problem with the JAR isn't that it is a monstrosity. The problem lies in the fact it wasn't a great venue to watch basketball when it was built 30+ years ago and there is really no good way of remodeling it.

When i played travel ball, we played in the JAR a few times. I thought it was clunky. Odd blue bleachers that dont match the rest of the stadium. Small on floor student sections, and larger upperdeck built in seats. Its a weird set up. Similar to WMU's setup that has actually switched directions of the floor since it was built.

The walking track combined with so little lower court seating behind the baskets is what I was getting at when I said there was no good way of remodeling it. Students are too far away from the court and people walking past obstruct your view unless you sit high enough up.

(01-18-2017 09:09 AM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  We're playing at Miami on a Tuesday night. can you imagine the numbers from that game? Fives of tens of people will be there to witness another edition of the Battle of the Bricks! LOL

Considering we actually drew well over 4000 people to last year's game in Oxford for a game at the perfect time (Saturday afternoon), I'd say the 'true' fan support that game is somewhere in between that and what we'll get later this year.

(01-18-2017 09:56 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 08:12 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Rumor has it that Miami will announce a new arena or major Millett renovation plans around the end of the season, probably to coincide with what we'd expect to be a new men's basketball coach hiring (hopefully women's too). In that case I'd expect us to significantly downsize from Millett, which is well over 9K capacity now.

Best of luck to you guys. You seriously face an uphill battle in attendance in Southwest Ohio, having to compete with UC, Xavier, Dayton, Wright State and now Northern Kentucky. I am sure a lot of your alums drive over to Columbus for games as well.

I remember the Miami of the 80 and early 90s. You are going to need to make a home run hire to turn your ship around.

Thanks. I'm really holding out that we hire Ryan Pedon, because realistically with how low our program is he'd be the best we can probably do. A guy with Miami experience under Charlie Coles, experience at two additional MAC schools (Kent State and Toledo), experience at a good Big Ten program under a successful ex-MAC coach (Illinois), and a current job as an assistant at the poster child for mid-major basketball (Butler) is pretty damn qualified. No matter what happens it won't be an easy fix, at least football we all sucked it up a few years but knew brighter times were definitely ahead, that's not the case for hoops.

Attendance declines isn't something only the MAC is suffering from, just about every league is also in the same boat.

However, I said this last year and I'll say it again this year, the move to Tuesday night league games isn't helping things. I'm not sure what the situation is in New York, Michigan, Indiana or Illinois, but Tuesday is the main early-week night for high school boys basketball in Ohio.

Plus, now we are getting one Friday night game a week (the other huge night for high school basketball in Ohio). Those Friday games have affected Akron more than anybody in the league. Last year, the Zips lost four home games due to it (the Zips played only one Saturday home game all year ... against last-place Miami).

Already this year, Akron is about to lose its second straight Saturday game against Eastern Michigan (the WMU game was also on Friday). And there is a decent chance they will lose at least two of its next three Saturday games ... Buffalo, Toledo, Kent ... to Friday night TV.

I get it, it's about TV and ESPN3, but using Akron as an example, it's pretty easy to see why their attendance is down from the days when the games were on Wednesday and Saturday (and there was zero to very limited streaming options).

(01-19-2017 01:43 AM)Wadszip Wrote:  Attendance declines isn't something only the MAC is suffering from, just about every league is also in the same boat.

However, I said this last year and I'll say it again this year, the move to Tuesday night league games isn't helping things. I'm not sure what the situation is in New York, Michigan, Indiana or Illinois, but Tuesday is the main early-week night for high school boys basketball in Ohio.

Plus, now we are getting one Friday night game a week (the other huge night for high school basketball in Ohio). Those Friday games have affected Akron more than anybody in the league. Last year, the Zips lost four home games due to it (the Zips played only one Saturday home game all year ... against last-place Miami).

Already this year, Akron is about to lose its second straight Saturday game against Eastern Michigan (the WMU game was also on Friday). And there is a decent chance they will lose at least two of its next three Saturday games ... Buffalo, Toledo, Kent ... to Friday night TV.

I get it, it's about TV and ESPN3, but using Akron as an example, it's pretty easy to see why their attendance is down from the days when the games were on Wednesday and Saturday (and there was zero to very limited streaming options).

I agree with your points.

As I posted before, the 'new model' is fans at game + fans watching on TV or webcast. Twenty years ago it was simply fans at game.

The 'metric' (measurement) has changed. Attendance isn't what it used to be. Now attendance income is down but television revenue is up.

While some are unhappy with the way things are, it is great for fans who don't live within say 50 miles of their favorite team. They get to see the game usually for free on TV or webcast.

Think of a Detroit Tigers fan. Fifty years ago how many games did a fan in Flint, Lansing, Jackson, etc. get to see? Maybe a dozen on TV and a few in person?

Different world...

Remember when BG was lambasted, mostly by childish Toledo fans (present company excluded), for not building a larger arena?

Good time.

(01-19-2017 01:33 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Remember when BG was lambasted, mostly by childish Toledo fans (present company excluded), for not building a larger arena?

Good time.

80% of your students live within a mile of campus, and BG still cant get capacity percentages like Toledo. That's why we lambast BG.... and because it's fun!