(01-19-2017 01:54 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:33 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Remember when BG was lambasted, mostly by childish Toledo fans (present company excluded), for not building a larger arena?

Good time.

80% of your students live within a mile of campus, and BG still cant get capacity percentages like Toledo. That's why we lambast BG.... and because it's fun!

Except for the whole FACT that you can search and find the posts of Toledo fans doing exactly what I said.

(01-19-2017 02:07 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:54 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:33 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Remember when BG was lambasted, mostly by childish Toledo fans (present company excluded), for not building a larger arena?

Good time.

80% of your students live within a mile of campus, and BG still cant get capacity percentages like Toledo. That's why we lambast BG.... and because it's fun!

Except for the whole FACT that you can search and find the posts of Toledo fans doing exactly what I said.

I bet they did! You should have a larger arena than a high school... that doesn't mean you aren't underachieving filling this building as well!

(01-19-2017 03:19 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 02:07 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:54 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:33 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Remember when BG was lambasted, mostly by childish Toledo fans (present company excluded), for not building a larger arena?

Good time.

80% of your students live within a mile of campus, and BG still cant get capacity percentages like Toledo. That's why we lambast BG.... and because it's fun!

Except for the whole FACT that you can search and find the posts of Toledo fans doing exactly what I said.

I bet they did! You should have a larger arena than a high school... that doesn't mean you aren't underachieving filling this building as well!

BG has underachieved filling that building, as well as AA, for years. That's why it was idiotic for Toledo folks to be recommending a building that sat 2,000+ or more people!

(01-19-2017 06:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 03:19 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 02:07 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:54 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:33 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Remember when BG was lambasted, mostly by childish Toledo fans (present company excluded), for not building a larger arena?

Good time.

80% of your students live within a mile of campus, and BG still cant get capacity percentages like Toledo. That's why we lambast BG.... and because it's fun!

Except for the whole FACT that you can search and find the posts of Toledo fans doing exactly what I said.

I bet they did! You should have a larger arena than a high school... that doesn't mean you aren't underachieving filling this building as well!

BG has underachieved filling that building, as well as AA, for years. That's why it was idiotic for Toledo folks to be recommending a building that sat 2,000+ or more people!

Maybe a larger arena could bring in entertainment money for acts that want to perform in front of good crowds, IDK?? I wasnt a part of the Anderson tear down and rebuild. I was still in high school at that time. The Stroh is still not a "cute" venue for its size. I hate endzone scoreboards. BG attempted to make up for it by putting a player stat board on the opposite side. Still... all we want in the MAC is the student section of Ohio right? Well BG is a college town that has that capability if the students embraced athletics... even just a little bit. That building along with every building in the MAC should be getting 60% capacity for average, a couple closer to sell out crowds, or have a very good reason why the crowds are so bad/ why that the arena is so large.

The older buildings used to pack em in. During the late 90's toledo sold out about every game for 9,000 seats. In 2008 we downsized to 7,300 because we saw crowds had been dwindling, and maybe predicted that TV was starting to hurt attendance? Not sure. We need to do better at filling our building. An NCAA squad would be nice. BG could use one too. Akron and Kent's numbers are more shocking really.

(01-19-2017 06:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 03:19 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 02:07 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:54 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:33 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Remember when BG was lambasted, mostly by childish Toledo fans (present company excluded), for not building a larger arena?

Good time.

80% of your students live within a mile of campus, and BG still cant get capacity percentages like Toledo. That's why we lambast BG.... and because it's fun!

Except for the whole FACT that you can search and find the posts of Toledo fans doing exactly what I said.

I bet they did! You should have a larger arena than a high school... that doesn't mean you aren't underachieving filling this building as well!

BG has underachieved filling that building, as well as AA, for years. That's why it was idiotic for Toledo folks to be recommending a building that sat 2,000+ or more people!

What did you think of the childish, idiotic Falcon fans who said the same thing?

(01-19-2017 01:33 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Remember when BG was lambasted, mostly by childish Toledo fans (present company excluded), for not building a larger arena?

Good time.

Uh, BG's bball arena capacity is one thing...but the thing we Toledo fans criticize about it is how ****** it is. There's no life to it. It looks cheap. It's not just small in seating capacity, but it's small in how it feels. It's small time. The designer & whatever cheap ass approved the design should be fired.

avg attendance for conference home games only, through two and half weeks-

5,609 Ohio
4,426 Toledo
3,033 Akron
2,986 Ball St
2,830 Buffalo

2,769 MAC

2,493 CMU
2,242 Miami
2,148 WMU
2,099 Kent St
1,606 EMU
1,385 NIU
802 BGSU

WMU's could be better (and team) -- but the mishap I think put things over the top.

Still, especially in smaller arenas, I'd like to see everyone have Around 3k.

802 for BGSU?! What the hell's going on there??? (No, Toledo fans -- don't answer that one)

(01-20-2017 01:24 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  avg attendance for conference home games only, through two and half weeks-

5,609 Ohio
4,426 Toledo
3,033 Akron
2,986 Ball St
2,830 Buffalo

2,769 MAC

2,493 CMU
2,242 Miami
2,148 WMU
2,099 Kent St
1,606 EMU
1,385 NIU
802 BGSU

I can't believe I'm sticking up for bgSUCKS, but 802 is not their average. They have hosted EMU (1,605) and NIU (2,234), for an average of 1,919.

I expect attendance averages to trend upwards since most of those numbers reflect schools playing 1-2 games with students on break.

The talent level in the MAC is likely the worst it's ever been. MAC officiating is hard to sit through. Ticket prices and travel costs are too high. The games are too long and drawn out with all the reviews. And nearly every game can be watched on your smart phone.

These factors contribute to attendance woes more than anything.

(01-20-2017 03:13 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  The talent level in the MAC is likely the worst it's ever been. MAC officiating is hard to sit through. Ticket prices and travel costs are too high. The games are too long and drawn out with all the reviews. And nearly every game can be watched on your smart phone.

These factors contribute to attendance woes more than anything.

"The talent level in the MAC is likely the worst it's ever been"
It's on par with what its been for the past 15-20 years IMO

"MAC officiating is hard to sit through"
How is that any different than 20 years ago?

"Ticket prices and travel costs are too high"
I was able to buy season tickets to Akron for $60 GA. That breaks out to $4 per game. Looks like BG breaks out to ~$9/game. The cost of a movie ticket. Travel costs are about as dirt cheap as they can get since the MAC is 1 of the most compact conferences.

"The games are too long and drawn out with all the reviews"
How long do you think a basketball game should last? A MAC game on ESPN3 that doesn't go to OT lasts ~2 hours

"nearly every game can be watched on your smart phone"
This is the biggest factor

(01-20-2017 03:35 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 03:13 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  The talent level in the MAC is likely the worst it's ever been. MAC officiating is hard to sit through. Ticket prices and travel costs are too high. The games are too long and drawn out with all the reviews. And nearly every game can be watched on your smart phone.

These factors contribute to attendance woes more than anything.

"The talent level in the MAC is likely the worst it's ever been"
It's on par with what its been for the past 15-20 years IMO

"MAC officiating is hard to sit through"
How is that any different than 20 years ago?

"Ticket prices and travel costs are too high"
I was able to buy season tickets to Akron for $60 GA. That breaks out to $4 per game. Looks like BG breaks out to ~$9/game. The cost of a movie ticket. Travel costs are about as dirt cheap as they can get since the MAC is 1 of the most compact conferences.

"The games are too long and drawn out with all the reviews"
How long do you think a basketball game should last? A MAC game on ESPN3 that doesn't go to OT lasts ~2 hours

"nearly every game can be watched on your smart phone"
This is the biggest factor

Yeah, whooaa back that train up! The MAC was the 2nd best mid major in the country last season and ranked 9th best conference OVERALL in the nation. There has been a slight drop off this year, but it is still one of the premier mid majors in the country and maybe 13-15th nationally.

Another thing which I think is hurting MAC teams is that power conferences are no longer even accepting phone calls to play in MAC arenas. That always use to help generate some ticket sales, that door has been closed.

(01-20-2017 07:30 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 01:24 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  avg attendance for conference home games only, through two and half weeks-

5,609 Ohio
4,426 Toledo
3,033 Akron
2,986 Ball St
2,830 Buffalo

2,769 MAC

2,493 CMU
2,242 Miami
2,148 WMU
2,099 Kent St
1,606 EMU
1,385 NIU
802 BGSU

I can't believe I'm sticking up for bgSUCKS, but 802 is not their average. They have hosted EMU (1,605) and NIU (2,234), for an average of 1,919.

I'm using the official stats of the MAC- http://mac-sports.com/custompages/stats/...NFONLY.HTM

(01-20-2017 07:20 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 07:30 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  I can't believe I'm sticking up for bgSUCKS, but 802 is not their average. They have hosted EMU (1,605) and NIU (2,234), for an average of 1,919.

I'm using the official stats of the MAC- http://mac-sports.com/custompages/stats/...NFONLY.HTM

Looks like they took only attendance from the EMU game.

(01-19-2017 06:08 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:43 AM)Wadszip Wrote:  Attendance declines isn't something only the MAC is suffering from, just about every league is also in the same boat.

However, I said this last year and I'll say it again this year, the move to Tuesday night league games isn't helping things. I'm not sure what the situation is in New York, Michigan, Indiana or Illinois, but Tuesday is the main early-week night for high school boys basketball in Ohio.

Plus, now we are getting one Friday night game a week (the other huge night for high school basketball in Ohio). Those Friday games have affected Akron more than anybody in the league. Last year, the Zips lost four home games due to it (the Zips played only one Saturday home game all year ... against last-place Miami).

Already this year, Akron is about to lose its second straight Saturday game against Eastern Michigan (the WMU game was also on Friday). And there is a decent chance they will lose at least two of its next three Saturday games ... Buffalo, Toledo, Kent ... to Friday night TV.

I get it, it's about TV and ESPN3, but using Akron as an example, it's pretty easy to see why their attendance is down from the days when the games were on Wednesday and Saturday (and there was zero to very limited streaming options).

I agree with your points.

As I posted before, the 'new model' is fans at game + fans watching on TV or webcast. Twenty years ago it was simply fans at game.

The 'metric' (measurement) has changed. Attendance isn't what it used to be. Now attendance income is down but television revenue is up.

While some are unhappy with the way things are, it is great for fans who don't live within say 50 miles of their favorite team. They get to see the game usually for free on TV or webcast.

Think of a Detroit Tigers fan. Fifty years ago how many games did a fan in Flint, Lansing, Jackson, etc. get to see? Maybe a dozen on TV and a few in person?

Different world...

I agree 100 percent with this. I wish the stream numbers were something that is is easily attainable. Something like attendance plus stream numbers (now that everybody is on ESPN3 ... well, maybe not Kent; Akron just got on at the start of league play) would tell a more truer tale at the interest levels people have in each program.

Still wouldn't be perfect for several different reasons, but it would still paint better picture than purely attendance.

(01-18-2017 08:52 AM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 06:49 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  WMU @EMU 1,485 (17% capacity)
Ohio @Akron 3,598 (65% capacity)
UB @ Kent State 2,110 (33% capacity)
Miami @ NIU 1,053 (11% capacity)
CMU @ Ball State 3,044 (26% capacity)
BG @ Toledo 5,118 (70% capacity)

Great effort, NIU...Toledo's women's program averages 4x that number!

Well, at least with NIU we report actually accurate numbers. Can't speak for every MAC school

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

(01-21-2017 04:02 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 08:52 AM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 06:49 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  WMU @EMU 1,485 (17% capacity)
Ohio @Akron 3,598 (65% capacity)
UB @ Kent State 2,110 (33% capacity)
Miami @ NIU 1,053 (11% capacity)
CMU @ Ball State 3,044 (26% capacity)
BG @ Toledo 5,118 (70% capacity)

Great effort, NIU...Toledo's women's program averages 4x that number!

Well, at least with NIU we report actually accurate numbers. Can't speak for every MAC school

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

I hope you arent talking about our womens numbers!? Because those are legit. We about fill our lower sections for every single game. The student sections are thin for wbb. Still better than student crowds from any other MAC team for wbb. Our mens numbers are a tiny bit fuged probably because season ticket holders dont always show up. On the mens side we have students though... were u at the NIU wbb game last weekend at Savage?

(01-21-2017 05:12 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(01-21-2017 04:02 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 08:52 AM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 06:49 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  WMU @EMU 1,485 (17% capacity)
Ohio @Akron 3,598 (65% capacity)
UB @ Kent State 2,110 (33% capacity)
Miami @ NIU 1,053 (11% capacity)
CMU @ Ball State 3,044 (26% capacity)
BG @ Toledo 5,118 (70% capacity)

Great effort, NIU...Toledo's women's program averages 4x that number!

Well, at least with NIU we report actually accurate numbers. Can't speak for every MAC school

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

I hope you arent talking about our womens numbers!? Because those are legit. We about fill our lower sections for every single game. The student sections are thin for wbb. Still better than student crowds from any other MAC team for wbb. Our mens numbers are a tiny bit fuged probably because season ticket holders dont always show up. On the mens side we have students though... were u at the NIU wbb game last weekend at Savage?

Never said Toledo as a school or even anyone specifically. The only claim I made was that I know NIU records actual butts in seats and I can't be sure other MAC schools do. That's all I said.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

(01-21-2017 05:13 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(01-21-2017 05:12 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(01-21-2017 04:02 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 08:52 AM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 06:49 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  WMU @EMU 1,485 (17% capacity)
Ohio @Akron 3,598 (65% capacity)
UB @ Kent State 2,110 (33% capacity)
Miami @ NIU 1,053 (11% capacity)
CMU @ Ball State 3,044 (26% capacity)
BG @ Toledo 5,118 (70% capacity)

Great effort, NIU...Toledo's women's program averages 4x that number!

Well, at least with NIU we report actually accurate numbers. Can't speak for every MAC school

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

I hope you arent talking about our womens numbers!? Because those are legit. We about fill our lower sections for every single game. The student sections are thin for wbb. Still better than student crowds from any other MAC team for wbb. Our mens numbers are a tiny bit fuged probably because season ticket holders dont always show up. On the mens side we have students though... were u at the NIU wbb game last weekend at Savage?

Never said Toledo as a school or even anyone specifically. The only claim I made was that I know NIU records actual butts in seats and I can't be sure other MAC schools do. That's all I said.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

It was a retort to a Toledo fan giving a jab to NIU, so I assumed you were implying we dont report correctly. I know for a fact turnstiles are only counted for student purposes as one entrance doesnt even have them. Scanned tickets doesnt work either because the amount of suites and boxes that get an alotment per game if bought. I also have no idea if security, band, workers etc. are ever taken into account for attendance.