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I don't think it's feasible to judge the character of every single recruit, but reports are out that this kid was involved in a gang rape. With all of the talent PJ has, why would he risk bringing in this character - doesn't make sense to me.

Comments???

https://www.google.com/amp/woodtv.com/20...x-football

What is Coach Hawk's legacy? He recruited a murderer!

Point being, coaches can only control what they can control. They can't control actions of their players off the field. PJ has already said he has learned from it. Also, Fleck is gone so who cares.

(01-15-2017 11:43 AM)Nacho Wrote:  What is Coach Hawk's legacy? He recruited a murderer!

Point being, coaches can only control what they can control. They can't control actions of their players off the field. PJ has already said he has learned from it. Also, Fleck is gone so who cares.

Amazing that Coach Hawk has seemed to essentially not suffer any backlash about this.

Not that he or any other coach can control what guys do on their own free time, but where is the questioning about his recruiting of character? And he has substantially less players

If Hawk is going to be judged on the basis of Kennedy's character then you certainly need to balance that with the countless success stories he's had over the past 12 seasons. Multiple quality kids over that time. I could be wrong but I think we've dominated (or at least had more than our share) of Academic All-MAC players over his tenure. And, who really knows if he's suffered any backlash or not.

(01-15-2017 12:01 PM)Broncos83 Wrote:  If Hawk is going to be judged on the basis of Kennedy's character then you certainly need to balance that with the countless success stories he's had over the past 12 seasons. Multiple quality kids over that time. I could be wrong but I think we've dominated (or at least had more than our share) of Academic All-MAC players over his tenure. And, who really knows if he's suffered any backlash or not.

He shouldn't be judged by one guy, as no coach should. But there has been substantially less questioning of him and this situation than there was about PJ and Bryson White. Maybe it's just a function of football being bigger, but it's a bit surprising. Hawkins essentially made a comment about it right after it happened. And that's been it. We are still talking about the Bryson White thing.

Good comments, but from an outside perspective, I viewed Coach Fleck as a God fearing man who would place integrity over a questionable character kid. I'm not saying kids don't deserve second chances but a college coach could have everything he worked to instill go down the drain with a few bad characters.

When you have 90-100 young men on a team you're going to have some bad apples. We threw two of them off the football team as this season started-and guess what??? They WEREN'T MISSED!

There's a lesson in that for all of us-football or basketball are team sports. No few individuals, no matter how talented or how many 'stars' they have beside their name are going to make or break a team. Those two were not missed, Mr. Kennedy won't be missed either. Somebody else will step up and do their job.

No student athlete is so talented we an afford to overlook character issues when we recruit them. If they're a bad apple at 18, likely as not they'll be bad apples at 20. We don't need them in our program.

I think in general fleck recruited kids with good character, and handled problem issues appropriately. I suspect he will do things the same way at Minnesota.

(01-15-2017 11:35 AM)Luckeyone Wrote:  I don't think it's feasible to judge the character of every single recruit, but reports are out that this kid was involved in a gang rape. With all of the talent PJ has, why would he risk bringing in this character - doesn't make sense to me.

Comments???

https://www.google.com/amp/woodtv.com/20...x-football

Maybe, like Coach Lester, he wants continuity of culture.

Quote:What is Coach Hawk's legacy? He recruited a murderer!

Oh, tomato, tomatoe....

Quote:I think in general fleck recruited kids with good character, and handled problem issues appropriately. I suspect he will do things the same way at Minnesota.

I agree. PJ's "legacy" at WMU isn't negative for recruits and their character. He wasn't totally on-point with a few I'm sure, but when you are one of the ones who set the bar as a tenacious recruiter -- you're going to be juggling a lot and there's going to be a little room for error and maybe a little naive hope looking at the bright side with someone where it doesn't pan out. I think he Wants good character to flow with the team, etc.

Look at Corey Davis. One could have said years ago "Oh, due to bad grades and such places like Illinois turned him down, so why are you going there?" etc. But that's where he saw someone who Did have good character and could make it well as a person, student, and athlete -- and that he did.

I think overall, if anything, he gets a positive review.

(01-15-2017 01:47 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  I agree. PJ's "legacy" at WMU isn't negative for recruits and their character.

Maybe true.

But

Quote:Look at Corey Davis. One could have said years ago "Oh, due to bad grades and such places like Illinois turned him down, so why are you going there?" etc.

Is just a little different than:

..."White had been accused of four separate sexual assaults, including gang rapes, in Mason, though he was never charged"....

Quote:Is just a little different than:

..."White had been accused of four separate sexual assaults, including gang rapes, in Mason, though he was never charged"....

Yeah, it's different, but it was more an analogy. An example of "Why did you get this guy who wouldn't pan out?" if he didn't pan out, like if Corey Davis coming in didn't go that extra mile in the class-related stuff to be eligible & sitting pretty. That turned out to be a Success for PJ, even though it would have been a Failure to him if it didn't work out -- so reaching out for the betterment, taking chances.

So that other guy, yeah, that's a different ball of wax, even though it's the same general concept. He wasn't charged so nothing jumped out at anyone, but someone who was connected to some riff-raff, I could see bringing them in -- but yeah, you're going to get burned Worse than reaching out to a guy with ineligible grades who doesn't pan out. However, I think PJ probably wasn't aware of the details of everything (his bad), although I'd find it hard to believe that he didn't know the kid was related to some social trouble at least and that it wasn't one of those "I'll help mold this kid into something Good".

Unless proof comes out that Fleck knew about White's history before allowing him into our program, I won't hold him responsible for what White did after he got here.

Fleck has already mea culpe'd publicly twice (one chere, once at Minnesota) for White, kicked him out of program as soon as (supposedly) he learned about White's behavior and history.