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Poll: How far does Gonzaga go?
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How far does Gonzaga go?
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #11
RE: How far does Gonzaga go?
This always depends on the bracket. They could be a 1-seed, but will get the lowest seed and toughest bracket. If they miss the top line, they won't even get the top 2-seed (I think that can be the better haul, anyway).

It isn't talent keeping them from the Final Four. It's the coach.

Put the Zags in a bracket with anyone from the top end of the ACC, and these guys are gone.

And I love Gonzaga... but, yikes, they just aren't the same group who play up to everyone at the season's start during the dance.
01-16-2017 05:44 AM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #12
RE: How far does Gonzaga go?
They consistently choke...
01-16-2017 06:04 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #13
RE: How far does Gonzaga go?
(01-16-2017 06:04 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  They consistently choke...

Yeah, they do. I think their conference plays a role in that in the form of atrophy as the season advances. Gonzaga plays a front-heavy schedule, and then goes into the abyss of their mostly horrible conference (spare SMC and BYU) where they don't see other solid tournament teams for basically two months (SMC is the exception this year, but most ones see SMC and BYU on the bubble and its fringes). Their conference is one of the first to declare its AQ, so they sit again for a few days, and then they go into that crazy opening weekend. It's not a good tempo or place for Gonzaga. There's just too much drop-off from competitive exposure. It doesn't serve them well.

I don't know what to do with them in a bracket anymore. I want to pencil them in to go far every year, but I know now from enough prior bad acts that I shouldn't. Even for the Sweet 16, which, they should be able to reach almost every year if they aren't in that 7-10 seed cluster. They do me in the same way Michigan State and Duke tend to do...they should be good for a long journey, given the name on the jersey, but they muck it up enough, too.
01-16-2017 07:51 AM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #14
RE: How far does Gonzaga go?
(01-16-2017 07:51 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-16-2017 06:04 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  They consistently choke...

Yeah, they do. I think their conference plays a role in that in the form of atrophy as the season advances. Gonzaga plays a front-heavy schedule, and then goes into the abyss of their mostly horrible conference (spare SMC and BYU) where they don't see other solid tournament teams for basically two months (SMC is the exception this year, but most ones see SMC and BYU on the bubble and its fringes). Their conference is one of the first to declare its AQ, so they sit again for a few days, and then they go into that crazy opening weekend. It's not a good tempo or place for Gonzaga. There's just too much drop-off from competitive exposure. It doesn't serve them well.

I don't know what to do with them in a bracket anymore. I want to pencil them in to go far every year, but I know now from enough prior bad acts that I shouldn't. Even for the Sweet 16, which, they should be able to reach almost every year if they aren't in that 7-10 seed cluster. They do me in the same way Michigan State and Duke tend to do...they should be good for a long journey, given the name on the jersey, but they muck it up enough, too.

I think that the Zags get perennially overrated because they beat up a bunch of jack nobodies and then they get exposed when they play real teams.

Their big OOC games were against a terrible Tennessee team (9-8), an atrocious Washington team (8-9), an overrated Arizona team, and a mediocre Iowa state team. Their in-conference schedule consists of an overrated St. Mary's team and a bunch of nobodies. Of course their record is great. Their marquee game was against an overrated #16.

The truth is that, as usual, Gonzaga isn't good. They're a round of 32 team that will probably make the Sweet Sixteen because of inflated seeding.
01-16-2017 12:16 PM
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hoops22 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: How far does Gonzaga go?
As of today Kenpom has them ranked No.3, behind only Kentucky and West Virginia.
01-16-2017 12:37 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #16
RE: How far does Gonzaga go?
(01-16-2017 07:51 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-16-2017 06:04 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  They consistently choke...

Yeah, they do. I think their conference plays a role in that in the form of atrophy as the season advances.

Stop it, Butler played in a conference that at best was only slightly better. The second year they went to the title game, they only had an above average regular season and looked to be a non-Tournament team in February before advancing to the title game. And now the WCC is better than the Horizon of that day, so I don't wanna hear it, they just choke on the regular. It's not like they go from January to March without playing a real team, they often have 5-7 such games.


Quote:Gonzaga plays a front-heavy schedule, and then goes into the abyss of their mostly horrible conference (spare SMC and BYU) where they don't see other solid tournament teams for basically two months (SMC is the exception this year, but most ones see SMC and BYU on the bubble and its fringes). Their conference is one of the first to declare its AQ, so they sit again for a few days, and then they go into that crazy opening weekend. It's not a good tempo or place for Gonzaga. There's just too much drop-off from competitive exposure. It doesn't serve them well.

I don't know what to do with them in a bracket anymore. I want to pencil them in to go far every year, but I know now from enough prior bad acts that I shouldn't. Even for the Sweet 16, which, they should be able to reach almost every year if they aren't in that 7-10 seed cluster. They do me in the same way Michigan State and Duke tend to do...they should be good for a long journey, given the name on the jersey, but they muck it up enough, too.

Like I said, it's just an excuse. What the issue really is, is that they snuck up on people when they first emerged on the scene. They had some legit heart and soul players such as Matt Santangelo and Casey Calvary but no one respected them during the early runs, at least opposing teams. Once they started getting a rep, they stopped advancing deep as people respected their name and came at them with everything plus they started choking all the time, especially in the Adam Morrison years.
01-16-2017 02:51 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #17
RE: How far does Gonzaga go?
(01-16-2017 02:51 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(01-16-2017 07:51 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-16-2017 06:04 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  They consistently choke...

Yeah, they do. I think their conference plays a role in that in the form of atrophy as the season advances.

Stop it, Butler played in a conference that at best was only slightly better. The second year they went to the title game, they only had an above average regular season and looked to be a non-Tournament team in February before advancing to the title game. And now the WCC is better than the Horizon of that day, so I don't wanna hear it, they just choke on the regular. It's not like they go from January to March without playing a real team, they often have 5-7 such games.


Quote:Gonzaga plays a front-heavy schedule, and then goes into the abyss of their mostly horrible conference (spare SMC and BYU) where they don't see other solid tournament teams for basically two months (SMC is the exception this year, but most ones see SMC and BYU on the bubble and its fringes). Their conference is one of the first to declare its AQ, so they sit again for a few days, and then they go into that crazy opening weekend. It's not a good tempo or place for Gonzaga. There's just too much drop-off from competitive exposure. It doesn't serve them well.

I don't know what to do with them in a bracket anymore. I want to pencil them in to go far every year, but I know now from enough prior bad acts that I shouldn't. Even for the Sweet 16, which, they should be able to reach almost every year if they aren't in that 7-10 seed cluster. They do me in the same way Michigan State and Duke tend to do...they should be good for a long journey, given the name on the jersey, but they muck it up enough, too.

Like I said, it's just an excuse. What the issue really is, is that they snuck up on people when they first emerged on the scene. They had some legit heart and soul players such as Matt Santangelo and Casey Calvary but no one respected them during the early runs, at least opposing teams. Once they started getting a rep, they stopped advancing deep as people respected their name and came at them with everything plus they started choking all the time, especially in the Adam Morrison years.

I don't disagree with this. My first post on this thread is where I mainly hover: I think they don't have a great coach. He can recruit, and can play a tough and somewhat competitive game...he can't coach for the tournament. You'd swear he'd notice the change in style those games demand (read: play faster, play for 3's, and work your possessions quickly to stay ahead of the television stoppages), but it doesn't seem to sink in.

But, I think that coaching can trickle down into the conference season and cause that malaise. That's the difference between Few and Stevens, or even Few and Marshall (MVC is far better and more competitive, but it's not what it was a decade ago). Few plays down once in the conference and never gets the guys back up for the dance.

He's frustrating to watch. And, I've thumped my chest on this one, too...it's like Few never realized he now has the big and fast guys. When he started, he had neither...and he found a way to play up (though, not always at their potential). Over the years, his guys got bigger, faster, and more accurate...and yet, they still play like a deer in the headlights when it matters most. He doesn't have the killer instinct others have.
01-16-2017 03:23 PM
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hoops22 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: How far does Gonzaga go?
I disagree with most of the comments here. I think Few is a good coach, and a lot of teams would be lucky to have him. As far as this year goes, Gonzaga has only been held under 70 once and that was by Arizona, in a six point Zags win. They've scored 80 or more in every game except a couple, so he is playing a more up tempo style this season. These players are all different from the Adam Morrison era, so you can't hold those failures against the current bunch. I'm amazed Few has the quality teams he has year in and year out, considering the league he's in, and recruiting wasteland he operates from. Last year at this time plenty of people were discounting Villanova because of some recent poor tournament showings, and then they steamrolled nearly everyone they faced on the way to the championship. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the year Gonzaga also makes some real noise . They have a really good team.
01-16-2017 04:00 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #19
RE: How far does Gonzaga go?
Mark Few has a great system and he's good at getting unheralded players to buy in and fit into it but he's not a great coach otherwise. If he ever left Gonzaga, he'd suffer a fate similar to Dan Monson, who washed out at Minnesota and is not relevant at Long Beach State.

Be a damn shame if he ever got elected to the Hall of Fame without a Final Four appearance.
01-16-2017 04:03 PM
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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Post: #20
RE: How far does Gonzaga go?
Round of 32, because it is Gonzaga. However hope they can get as far as they can.
01-16-2017 04:07 PM
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