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Could UConn and Cincy go MW in football, NBE for everything else.
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Could UConn and Cincy go MW in football, NBE for everything else.
(01-16-2017 09:55 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(01-16-2017 01:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-15-2017 08:29 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-15-2017 08:04 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(01-15-2017 01:45 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  I just googled up the name of the board that stole all of our Big East board posters, "....UConn to Big East poll." First hit is a thread from August with a poll. "Do you want UConn back?" 44% yes, 56% no, out of 57 votes.

I'm open to bringing UConn back. But I'm a St John's fan, and I can see the sentimental argument. Time marches on. 3 new voting members have ZERO connection to UConn. I don't think Marquette and DePaul have much attachment. That's half the conference with no reason to get weepy about Rip Hamilton and Ben Gordon and Emeka Okafor.


And Xavier has more to say about it than Cincy does. Cincy is a non-starter. Nick Van Exel is a long time ago, and Oscar Robertson is a name on a trophy. UConn and still-shiny national championships and Final Fours and thirty years of Big East history make it a question. Bearcats were a one-decade wonder in the Big East. Hard pass.

(I'm sorry that sounds harsh and dismissive to Cincy. But the reasons we're not over-the-moon about UConn to the Big East are real, and they all apply to Cincy and more. UConn-to-the-Big-East isn't happening, but it's a question fans would go back and forth on. Anybody else, short of Syracuse, asking to come back gets the door slammed in their faces.)

RutgersGuy: As for divisions, you CAN do basketball divisions if you want to. I'd expect a 12-team Big East to schedule by divisions, even if we don't include them in the standings. The six eastern teams play home-and-home, play 2 western teams home-and-home, play 2 western teams at home, 2 western teams on the road, for an 18 game conference schedule. So you play everybody every year, and everybody comes to town at least 2 years out of 3.

You can, but i'd doubt the members or the TV partners would be up for that. You handcuff yourself and hamper your ability to set up as many TV friendly match ups as possible. You only get 2 Villanova/Xavier games every 3-4 years? I could see them adding just one and playing a 20 game round robin.

You'd get a Villanova-Xavier game every year. You'd get a Villanova-Xavier home-and-home every third year.

This schedule is designed more for the ticket-buying fanbases--Xavier and Marquette season-ticket boosters get to see Georgetown and Villanova two-years-out-of-three, and Providence gets to visit Chicago to recruit two-years-out-of-three. But 11 schools and a 20-game double-round-robin is okay with me too.

I'm just saying that, if the Big EAst adds UConn, the other add would almost certainly be west of Pittsburgh, so geographic divisions are a strong option.

If the Big East added 2 teams, the schedule would have 18 games with 7 teams playing teams 2x. The league would just make sure that Xavier/Nova was in that 2x group. What wouldn't happen is things like DePaul getting Nova 2x(like what happened in the Big East a few years ago). And nothing wrong with that at all whatsoever.

Pretty sure they wouldn't permanently ban DePaul from playing Villanova twice in one year.

they pretty much did. In the 8 years of the Big East setup with 16 teams, DePaul played Georgetown 8 times. UConn 8 times. Pitt 10 times, USF and St John's though 12 times. Do you really think that's a coincidence?
01-16-2017 10:45 AM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Could UConn and Cincy go MW in football, NBE for everything else.
(01-16-2017 10:45 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-16-2017 09:55 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(01-16-2017 01:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-15-2017 08:29 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-15-2017 08:04 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  You can, but i'd doubt the members or the TV partners would be up for that. You handcuff yourself and hamper your ability to set up as many TV friendly match ups as possible. You only get 2 Villanova/Xavier games every 3-4 years? I could see them adding just one and playing a 20 game round robin.

You'd get a Villanova-Xavier game every year. You'd get a Villanova-Xavier home-and-home every third year.

This schedule is designed more for the ticket-buying fanbases--Xavier and Marquette season-ticket boosters get to see Georgetown and Villanova two-years-out-of-three, and Providence gets to visit Chicago to recruit two-years-out-of-three. But 11 schools and a 20-game double-round-robin is okay with me too.

I'm just saying that, if the Big EAst adds UConn, the other add would almost certainly be west of Pittsburgh, so geographic divisions are a strong option.

If the Big East added 2 teams, the schedule would have 18 games with 7 teams playing teams 2x. The league would just make sure that Xavier/Nova was in that 2x group. What wouldn't happen is things like DePaul getting Nova 2x(like what happened in the Big East a few years ago). And nothing wrong with that at all whatsoever.

Pretty sure they wouldn't permanently ban DePaul from playing Villanova twice in one year.

they pretty much did. In the 8 years of the Big East setup with 16 teams, DePaul played Georgetown 8 times. UConn 8 times. Pitt 10 times, USF and St John's though 12 times. Do you really think that's a coincidence?

Villanova then wasn't the same as Villanova now.

The set up then was you'd play everyone once and then a top level team twice a mid level team twice and a bottom level team twice. Unless you are willing to lay out a spread sheet of how many times each school played the other in the 16 team format your numbers here don't mean squat.
01-16-2017 02:31 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Could UConn and Cincy go MW in football, NBE for everything else.
(01-16-2017 02:31 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(01-16-2017 10:45 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-16-2017 09:55 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(01-16-2017 01:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-15-2017 08:29 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  You'd get a Villanova-Xavier game every year. You'd get a Villanova-Xavier home-and-home every third year.

This schedule is designed more for the ticket-buying fanbases--Xavier and Marquette season-ticket boosters get to see Georgetown and Villanova two-years-out-of-three, and Providence gets to visit Chicago to recruit two-years-out-of-three. But 11 schools and a 20-game double-round-robin is okay with me too.

I'm just saying that, if the Big EAst adds UConn, the other add would almost certainly be west of Pittsburgh, so geographic divisions are a strong option.

If the Big East added 2 teams, the schedule would have 18 games with 7 teams playing teams 2x. The league would just make sure that Xavier/Nova was in that 2x group. What wouldn't happen is things like DePaul getting Nova 2x(like what happened in the Big East a few years ago). And nothing wrong with that at all whatsoever.

Pretty sure they wouldn't permanently ban DePaul from playing Villanova twice in one year.

they pretty much did. In the 8 years of the Big East setup with 16 teams, DePaul played Georgetown 8 times. UConn 8 times. Pitt 10 times, USF and St John's though 12 times. Do you really think that's a coincidence?

Villanova then wasn't the same as Villanova now.

The set up then was you'd play everyone once and then a top level team twice a mid level team twice and a bottom level team twice. Unless you are willing to lay out a spread sheet of how many times each school played the other in the 16 team format your numbers here don't mean squat.

so you think it was just random that DePaul played Georgetown and UConn only 8 times in 8 years while they played USF and St John's 12 times? Are you delusional? Georgetown played Syracuse and St John's 13 times, while they played USF only 8 times. Do you think that was random entirely? NO ******* chance. TV made sure that the top teams were getting to play each other.

Oh, and Villanova in the OBE only made the final 4, so your Nova comment was dead wrong.

Bottom line, the comment that you would get a Villanova/Xavier home and home every third year is ludicrous. First off, the league has gone to 18 game schedule, instead of 16 which adds 2 extra conference games. So there would be 7 home and homes and 4 singles. So even if they weren't trying to make the schedule interesting, there would be 21 home and homes in the 3 years between the other 11 teams- or in other words, of the other 11 teams, you would be guaranteed to see a team naturally 5 times 10 of 11 teams. I contend the league would make it where that number might be 4 times for teams like Nova vs DePaul, but 6 times for teams like Nova vs Xavier.
01-16-2017 03:30 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Could UConn and Cincy go MW in football, NBE for everything else.
(01-16-2017 03:30 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-16-2017 02:31 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(01-16-2017 10:45 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-16-2017 09:55 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(01-16-2017 01:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  If the Big East added 2 teams, the schedule would have 18 games with 7 teams playing teams 2x. The league would just make sure that Xavier/Nova was in that 2x group. What wouldn't happen is things like DePaul getting Nova 2x(like what happened in the Big East a few years ago). And nothing wrong with that at all whatsoever.

Pretty sure they wouldn't permanently ban DePaul from playing Villanova twice in one year.

they pretty much did. In the 8 years of the Big East setup with 16 teams, DePaul played Georgetown 8 times. UConn 8 times. Pitt 10 times, USF and St John's though 12 times. Do you really think that's a coincidence?

Villanova then wasn't the same as Villanova now.

The set up then was you'd play everyone once and then a top level team twice a mid level team twice and a bottom level team twice. Unless you are willing to lay out a spread sheet of how many times each school played the other in the 16 team format your numbers here don't mean squat.

so you think it was just random that DePaul played Georgetown and UConn only 8 times in 8 years while they played USF and St John's 12 times? Are you delusional? Georgetown played Syracuse and St John's 13 times, while they played USF only 8 times. Do you think that was random entirely? NO ******* chance. TV made sure that the top teams were getting to play each other.

Oh, and Villanova in the OBE only made the final 4, so your Nova comment was dead wrong.

Bottom line, the comment that you would get a Villanova/Xavier home and home every third year is ludicrous. First off, the league has gone to 18 game schedule, instead of 16 which adds 2 extra conference games. So there would be 7 home and homes and 4 singles. So even if they weren't trying to make the schedule interesting, there would be 21 home and homes in the 3 years between the other 11 teams- or in other words, of the other 11 teams, you would be guaranteed to see a team naturally 5 times 10 of 11 teams. I contend the league would make it where that number might be 4 times for teams like Nova vs DePaul, but 6 times for teams like Nova vs Xavier.

First off calm down guy. Don't come around yelling at me because you disagree with me.

Yes, Villanova made a final four but they weren't the top dog of the conference then. They weren't a #1 team in the country level program then.

I'll say it again since you don't actually do the work to prove your point. Syracuse played Georgetown and SJU more often because those are traditional rivalries and it had nothing to do with how bad DePaul was. Look it up, they used a formula. You'd play 15 games against every team in the conference then a second game against a top level team, a middle level team and a lower level team. That is in fact how they tried to balance the schedule.

If you want to defend splitting into divisions (which is what this conversation is a about btw) thats fine. It wont ever happen and it's a stupid idea that every conference minus the MAC and OVC has moved away from.
01-16-2017 07:14 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Could UConn and Cincy go MW in football, NBE for everything else.
(01-14-2017 09:02 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  
(01-14-2017 08:38 PM)k5james Wrote:  MWC says no.

You do realize this would destroy the AAC TV contract and give the MW the upper hand, right? The MW has been linked with expanding with Rice and UTEP. Do you want Rice and UTEP or Cincy and UConn?

It makes absolutely no sense for Uconn and Cincy to join the MWC. Why it makes sense for Boise and SDSU to join the AAC I'll never know. Conferences are a group of peer schools with a cultural and geographic identity:
SEC: The biggest and best Southern programs.
Big 10: The biggest and best Midwest programs.
PAC: The biggesst and best West Coast programs.
ACC: The biggest and best East Coast programs.
Big 12: The biggest and best programs of the plains and Texas.
AAC: the best of the rest of the East, South, plains and Texas.
MWC: the best of the Mountain West schools and best of the rest of the West Coast.
MAC: the best of the rest in the Midwest.
SB: the newest programs in FBS; located in the South.
CUSA: Mostly new programs in big metros ranging from El Paso to Virginia, with a few historical programs left behind trying to get out.

Cheers!
01-16-2017 07:44 PM
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Blitz Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Could UConn and Cincy go MW in football, NBE for everything else.
The BigE is likely going to stick with the formula that works. Primarily Catholic, private, non-partial, urban, basketball-focused members, in non-overlapping markets. Neither Cincy nor UConn fits the mold. Number 11 will likely be SLU. Number 12 is likely undecided (Dayton somewhat overlaps Xavier), or SLU would, IMO, already be in.

Messing with the formula could yield some short-terms gains, but may render the conference vulnerable and unstable in the future. I suspect that the BigE presidents learned their lesson the last time around.
01-16-2017 11:46 PM
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CardFan1 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Could UConn and Cincy go MW in football, NBE for everything else.
Why would they give up better markets where They now play in ?
01-17-2017 06:25 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Could UConn and Cincy go MW in football, NBE for everything else.
(01-16-2017 11:46 PM)Blitz Wrote:  The BigE is likely going to stick with the formula that works. Primarily Catholic, private, non-partial, urban, basketball-focused members, in non-overlapping markets. Neither Cincy nor UConn fits the mold. Number 11 will likely be SLU. Number 12 is likely undecided (Dayton somewhat overlaps Xavier), or SLU would, IMO, already be in.

Messing with the formula could yield some short-terms gains, but may render the conference vulnerable and unstable in the future. I suspect that the BigE presidents learned their lesson the last time around.

Speaking purely from geography, it's too bad there aren't any Xavier/Dayton equivalent type programs in Detroit, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh. Those markets would fill in the nBE footprint nicely.
01-21-2017 09:57 AM
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gosports1 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Could UConn and Cincy go MW in football, NBE for everything else.
if the Oakland Raiders cn move to Las Vegas why cant Gonzaga move to Pittsburgh, Boston, Minneapolis or even Atlanta? 03-lmfao
01-21-2017 10:28 AM
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