Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Raiders to Las Vegas--it's official.
Author Message
MplsBison Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 15,297
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 161
I Root For: NDSU/Minnesota
Location:
Post: #11
RE: Raiders to Las Vegas--it's official.
(01-14-2017 12:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Ugh...How much do the taxpayers pay Sheldon for the stadium?

My understanding is that the Vegas stadium tax-funded portion will be paid by a tax on hotel rooms. So essentially, it's all the travelers to Vegas paying for the stadium, and nothing from the residences.

Doesn't get more perfect than that.
01-15-2017 12:05 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Love and Honor Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,123
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 100
I Root For: Miami, MACtion
Location: Tampa
Post: #12
RE: Raiders to Las Vegas--it's official.
The NFL, compared to all the other major sports leagues, is the least dependent on individual markets by far. While there's a big difference in financial clout between the Cowboys and Bengals, the league shares money in such a fashion that it makes teams in markets like Green Bay possible when they could barely support AAA baseball. The business model would work and everyone would make money even if the best teams were in Buffalo, Jacksonville, or Oakland.

However, that model relies on a broad base of support across the country in non-NFL cities from Boise to Birmingham. When you start alienating large markets like St. Louis, San Diego, and Oakland, you undercut your support in order to make a couple teams more valuable on paper. That's all well and good for now, but in the long term those kinds of actions pose a threat to the league's well being. That, in addition to overseeing a less entertaining product (from all the rule changes), a less entertaining in-game experience (frequent play stoppages, high ticket prices creating a corporatized atmosphere), and bad press (the concussion issue, debatably the national anthem thing) can't help.

Honestly, I think the NFL has really screwed up the relocation process the last year or so. I know I'm salty because I was a Rams fan, but look at how NFL ratings have dropped in St. Louis and LA to see how well moving a bad team under an awful owner to a fickle sports town works.
01-15-2017 03:22 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Wedge Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 11,924
Joined: May 2010
Reputation: 339
I Root For: California
Location: Bear Territory
Post: #13
RE: Raiders to Las Vegas--it's official.
I'm not a fan of the NFL office, but IMO they handled LA about as well as they could.

You can't sprinkle magic fairy dust on the ground and watch a billion-dollar stadium sprout, and no local government in LA was going to build one, either. There was only one way to get a palace glitzy enough for NFL egos built in LA: Find an off-the-charts wealthy owner to build one for his team. Kroenke was the only answer for LA because he's the only NFL owner who both fits that description and wanted to relocate. League politics are the reason he had to make room for a second team there, and that's really the only thing they got wrong, but there's no way around that because the NFL is a club of 32 rich owners that take care of themselves.

The way to make the TV ratings better is to fix archaic local-market rules and let CBS and Fox each show Sunday doubleheaders in every TV market. Most NFL markets would get 3 Sunday afternoon games in addition to their local team's game (if it's on Sunday), LA and NY would get 2 games plus local games when both local teams are playing on Sunday. And every non-NFL market, plus every NFL market whose team isn't playing that Sunday, gets 4 good games every Sunday afternoon.
01-15-2017 04:54 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 16,204
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 335
I Root For: Houston
Location: Near Seawall Town
Post: #14
RE: Raiders to Las Vegas--it's official.
(01-15-2017 12:05 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(01-14-2017 12:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Ugh...How much do the taxpayers pay Sheldon for the stadium?

My understanding is that the Vegas stadium tax-funded portion will be paid by a tax on hotel rooms. So essentially, it's all the travelers to Vegas paying for the stadium, and nothing from the residences.

Doesn't get more perfect than that.

Yep, only the irrational would be up in arms about that. Don't like it? You shouldn't be going to gamble hundreds of dollars away anyways in Vegas if you can't pay a little more on your hotel bill. Nobody loses except the greedy and the cheap.

(01-15-2017 03:22 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The NFL, compared to all the other major sports leagues, is the least dependent on individual markets by far. While there's a big difference in financial clout between the Cowboys and Bengals, the league shares money in such a fashion that it makes teams in markets like Green Bay possible when they could barely support AAA baseball. The business model would work and everyone would make money even if the best teams were in Buffalo, Jacksonville, or Oakland.

However, that model relies on a broad base of support across the country in non-NFL cities from Boise to Birmingham. When you start alienating large markets like St. Louis, San Diego, and Oakland, you undercut your support in order to make a couple teams more valuable on paper. That's all well and good for now, but in the long term those kinds of actions pose a threat to the league's well being. That, in addition to overseeing a less entertaining product (from all the rule changes), a less entertaining in-game experience (frequent play stoppages, high ticket prices creating a corporatized atmosphere), and bad press (the concussion issue, debatably the national anthem thing) can't help.

Honestly, I think the NFL has really screwed up the relocation process the last year or so. I know I'm salty because I was a Rams fan, but look at how NFL ratings have dropped in St. Louis and LA to see how well moving a bad team under an awful owner to a fickle sports town works.

True and false.

While you make some good points, I don't think it's all that pronounced. The Chargers are just moving a couple hours away, granted to a place many San Diegans bat their eyes at. The NFL will take a hit in San Diego but won't lose it and who cares if they lose San Diego to a redundant LA market? San Diego has only a small hinterland (i.e. other areas that add support to their season ticket base and TV market) and as a matter of fact it's exactly the same for the Chargers now, just flip flop LA and San Diego. Ditto for the Raiders, they actually move back closer to the market they're most popular in, are still relatively close to Oakland and there is a team that fills their void, a more popular team, the 49ers. Besides, what else could be done for either? Their stadiums are only a few steps away from being condemned.

Losing St. Louis sucks but no franchise had much tradition in St. Louis and though the Rams had some glory days, those had faded by the time they moved. The NFL is still doing fine in most of Illinois thanks to the Bears and Colts and in Missouri thanks to the Chiefs. If the NFL had their way, the Jaguars would have moved to LA and the Rams would have at least finished their lease in St. Louis.
01-15-2017 10:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 16,204
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 335
I Root For: Houston
Location: Near Seawall Town
Post: #15
RE: Raiders to Las Vegas--it's official.
(01-15-2017 04:54 PM)Wedge Wrote:  I'm not a fan of the NFL office, but IMO they handled LA about as well as they could.

You can't sprinkle magic fairy dust on the ground and watch a billion-dollar stadium sprout, and no local government in LA was going to build one, either. There was only one way to get a palace glitzy enough for NFL egos built in LA: Find an off-the-charts wealthy owner to build one for his team. Kroenke was the only answer for LA because he's the only NFL owner who both fits that description and wanted to relocate. League politics are the reason he had to make room for a second team there, and that's really the only thing they got wrong, but there's no way around that because the NFL is a club of 32 rich owners that take care of themselves.

The way to make the TV ratings better is to fix archaic local-market rules and let CBS and Fox each show Sunday doubleheaders in every TV market. Most NFL markets would get 3 Sunday afternoon games in addition to their local team's game (if it's on Sunday), LA and NY would get 2 games plus local games when both local teams are playing on Sunday. And every non-NFL market, plus every NFL market whose team isn't playing that Sunday, gets 4 good games every Sunday afternoon.

You're exactly right that it's archaic. While the home team is the home team, people move around so much and the NFL is so popular that it's dumb to limit a product that only comes on during weekends and especially on Sundays. If you're worried about home attendance, you can always black out the home team's game.

EDIT: there's no reason that 7 games shouldn't be shown each week in every market.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2017 10:42 PM by _C2_.)
01-15-2017 10:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Brookes Owl Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,948
Joined: Sep 2004
Reputation: 92
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location:

The Parliament AwardsCrappiesDonators
Post: #16
RE: Raiders to Las Vegas--it's official.
(01-15-2017 10:26 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(01-15-2017 12:05 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(01-14-2017 12:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Ugh...How much do the taxpayers pay Sheldon for the stadium?

My understanding is that the Vegas stadium tax-funded portion will be paid by a tax on hotel rooms. So essentially, it's all the travelers to Vegas paying for the stadium, and nothing from the residences.

Doesn't get more perfect than that.

Yep, only the irrational would be up in arms about that. Don't like it? You shouldn't be going to gamble hundreds of dollars away anyways in Vegas if you can't pay a little more on your hotel bill. Nobody loses except the greedy and the cheap.

ONLY THE IRRATIONAL? I think there are reasonable arguments that are FAR from irrational. Is there nothing else Vegas needs? Infrastructure is in great shape? Schools are top notch? Fire and police at top readiness? I've come around on stadium value to a municipality and I no longer think they need to post a positive return to have real value, but to say "who cares - we're just soaking tourists" misses the point. I'm not at all convinced that the increased value to Las Vegas from a pro stadium (let's call it goodwill) is worth more to the city than, for example, investing in the local school district. Mark Davis, Sheldon Adelson (or Goldman Sachs), and the NFL are going to be enriched, yes, at the expense of tourists but also potentially at the expense of Las Vegas residents who won't see benefits they might otherwise have seen.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2017 11:16 PM by Brookes Owl.)
01-15-2017 11:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 16,204
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 335
I Root For: Houston
Location: Near Seawall Town
Post: #17
RE: Raiders to Las Vegas--it's official.
Oh come on, cities have been adding non-essentials throughout history. There's always going to be some outstanding need or maintenance that needs to be taken care of and require tax dollars, that's life in the big city, literally. ALWAYS, at all times (school books need to be replaced, roads repaired, police and fire personnel hirings/firings, etc...).

Vegas' economy is one that relies heavily on tourists coming in and staying days at a time. It's not a recent thing nor is it a seasonal event that happens during a portion of the year. They are merely taking advantage of something that is already part of the city's character at basically ZERO cost to residents and only a little extra to tourists. And don't tell me most of them will get pissed because most come to spend hundreds, if not thousands gambling. If they get pissed, what can I tell you? Vegas is doing something that pleases their residents and makes them feel better about living there, doing even more to attract people, both as long term residents and tourists looking for something extra to do.

And as I said because life is always in motion, there will ALWAYS be something that requires tax dollars and they can always choose to increase taxes in whatever way necessary to alleviate any issues. They'd be wiser to try and annex portions of the area, especially Paradise, and harness more tax dollars from places that leach off the Las Vegas name and resources.
01-16-2017 12:25 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Transic_nyc Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 752
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation: 28
I Root For: Not ESEACCPN
Location:
Post: #18
RE: Raiders to Las Vegas--it's official.
County commissioner: Bank of America will fill stadium funding hole

Quote:Bank of America will provide the Las Vegas football stadium project the final leg of financing for the $1.9 billion proposal, Clark County Commission Chairman Steve Sisolak posted on Twitter this afternoon.

In January, Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson withdrew his $650 million pledge to the project because of his discomfort with the lease agreement with the stadium’s proposed primary tenants, the Oakland Raiders. That temporarily put the prospects of the Raiders relocating here in jeopardy.

It wasn’t immediately known how much Bank of America would put up. The initial plan called for the state to provide $750 million from an increase in the hotel room tax and for the Raiders to provide $500 million.

“An @NFL source has confirmed to me this afternoon that @BankofAmerica will provide the necessary financing for the proposed stadium,” Sisolak posted on Twitter.

In an email to the Sun, Bank of America officials declined to comment. The Las Vegas Stadium Authority meets at 1 p.m. Thursday.

Steve Hill, chairman of the Las Vegas Stadium Authority, confirmed Bank of America's involvement and said it would be enough to push the project forward.

“I don’t know what the exact terms are and their commitment to the Raiders, but my understanding is it’s enough to allow the stadium to be financed fully," Hill said.

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2017/mar/...fill-stad/
03-06-2017 10:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
billybobby777 Offline
Fighting the cartel 5
*

Posts: 7,466
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 293
I Root For: ECU, Army
Location: Houston dont sleepon
Post: #19
RE: Raiders to Las Vegas--it's official.
(03-06-2017 10:07 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  County commissioner: Bank of America will fill stadium funding hole

Quote:Bank of America will provide the Las Vegas football stadium project the final leg of financing for the $1.9 billion proposal, Clark County Commission Chairman Steve Sisolak posted on Twitter this afternoon.

In January, Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson withdrew his $650 million pledge to the project because of his discomfort with the lease agreement with the stadium’s proposed primary tenants, the Oakland Raiders. That temporarily put the prospects of the Raiders relocating here in jeopardy.

It wasn’t immediately known how much Bank of America would put up. The initial plan called for the state to provide $750 million from an increase in the hotel room tax and for the Raiders to provide $500 million.

“An @NFL source has confirmed to me this afternoon that @BankofAmerica will provide the necessary financing for the proposed stadium,” Sisolak posted on Twitter.

In an email to the Sun, Bank of America officials declined to comment. The Las Vegas Stadium Authority meets at 1 p.m. Thursday.

Steve Hill, chairman of the Las Vegas Stadium Authority, confirmed Bank of America's involvement and said it would be enough to push the project forward.

“I don’t know what the exact terms are and their commitment to the Raiders, but my understanding is it’s enough to allow the stadium to be financed fully," Hill said.

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2017/mar/...fill-stad/

I had kind of forgot about this...last I heard around a month ago was that Adelson was backing out. Then I heard that Oakland was pulling money out of the sky to keep them there. Thanks for bumping.
Cheers!
03-06-2017 10:39 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Brookes Owl Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,948
Joined: Sep 2004
Reputation: 92
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location:

The Parliament AwardsCrappiesDonators
Post: #20
RE: Raiders to Las Vegas--it's official.
(03-06-2017 10:39 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  I had kind of forgot about this...last I heard around a month ago was that Adelson was backing out. Then I heard that Oakland was pulling money out of the sky to keep them there. Thanks for bumping.
Cheers!

Oakland hasn't done a thing. The mayor made a pitch today but their deal hasn't changed and the Ronnie Lott group (that was theoretically going to pull all that money out of the sky) didn't even show up for the pitch. Sounds like it's dead in the water. Only question left: Can Davis get the votes for Vegas?
03-06-2017 11:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2017 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2017 MyBB Group.