Im still wondering what is wrong with having good relations between the US and Russia? I'm beginning to think there may well be those in power that are directly benefiting is some fashion from us being enemies.

We'd be better served with the Russians as our allies than we would with half of our current ones.

(01-15-2017 09:30 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  We'd be better served with the Russians as our allies than we would with half of our current ones.

The problem is that Russia's endgame involves the destruction of a long-standing ally (and a NATO member that DOES meet defense mandates) in Poland. Poland has also backed us up in the Middle East - and does a good job of not badmouthing us 24/7. They are a GOOD ally.

Conservatives have rightfully said "we should treat our friends better than our enemies". This statement should hold true with Poland.

Here's what Trump's "Good Deal" will engender

1) Trump will destroy NATO and the US' geopolitical advantages
2) Trump will, like Neville Chamberlain, appease and endorse Putin's land grabs in Crimea and Ukraine
3) Trump will remove US sanctions, harming US oil field workers
4) Trump will excuse Putin's war crimes in Syria and will ignore Putin's alliance with ISIS
5) Trump will excuse Putin's monsterous human rights abuses in Russia and his overt support for those abuses elsewhere
6) Trump will destroy our nuclear deterrent

And in return

7) Putin will not destroy any of its current nuclear capability, but will instead reduce its public plans to increase its nuclear arsenal by some minor amount.
8) Putin and his oligarchs will continue to funnel cash to Donald Trump

(01-16-2017 09:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Here's what Trump's "Good Deal" will engender

1) Trump will destroy NATO and the US' geopolitical advantages
2) Trump will, like Neville Chamberlain, appease and endorse Putin's land grabs in Crimea and Ukraine
3) Trump will remove US sanctions, harming US oil field workers
4) Trump will excuse Putin's war crimes in Syria and will ignore Putin's alliance with ISIS
5) Trump will excuse Putin's monsterous human rights abuses in Russia and his overt support for those abuses elsewhere
6) Trump will destroy our nuclear deterrent

And in return

7) Putin will not destroy any of its current nuclear capability, but will instead reduce its public plans to increase its nuclear arsenal by some minor amount.
8) Putin and his oligarchs will continue to funnel cash to Donald Trump

Looks like it's engendered a lot of speculation and hyperbole from you.

lol, man isn't even POTUS yet and he's already destroyed the world. I'm telling you all, it's mental. These people simply can not help themselves. THIS is what happens when the entitled do not get their way. We created this nonsense.

(01-16-2017 09:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Here's what Trump's "Good Deal" will engender

1) Trump will destroy NATO and the US' geopolitical advantages

Incorrect. He has already strengthened Nato while a candidate for pointing out their stupidity in not having a policy & procedure to deal with terrorism. Now they do.

Quote:2) Trump will, like Neville Chamberlain, appease and endorse Putin's land grabs in Crimea and Ukraine

There is no way he could endorse them any harder than Obama. Please refer to me a link where you bitched about Obama's incompetency on this, so you dont look like a flaming hypocrite.

Quote:3) Trump will remove US sanctions, harming US oil field workers

What sanctions will he remove that are currently PROTECTING US oil field workers. The only thing that protects or harms the oil field workers is the price per barrel of oil.

Quote:4) Trump will excuse Putin's war crimes in Syria and will ignore Putin's alliance with ISIS

What about Obama? Please back this up with links where you showed your butthurt over Obama doing this. Funny, how you are butthurt over what you think Trump will do, but silent on Obama doing just that. Links please.

Quote:5) Trump will excuse Putin's monsterous human rights abuses in Russia and his overt support for those abuses elsewhere

Like you excused Hillary for taking tens of millions in donations from countries that threw gays off of tall buildings?

Quote:6) Trump will destroy our nuclear deterrent

Yea, rebuilding our dilapidated nuclear arms is destroying our deterrent.

Please see the last 8 years of Obama to see how one does that. And please provide links where you criticized Obama for actually doing what, in your little dreamland, you accuse Trump of going to do.

Quote:And in return

7) Putin will not destroy any of its current nuclear capability, but will instead reduce its public plans to increase its nuclear arsenal by some minor amount.

Please show links where Putin destroyed any of his nuclear capability under Obama. Also, please show your links ripping Obama a new one for not forcing Putin to do so.

(01-16-2017 09:48 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 09:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Here's what Trump's "Good Deal" will engender

1) Trump will destroy NATO and the US' geopolitical advantages

Incorrect. He has already strengthened Nato while a candidate for pointing out their stupidity in not having a policy & procedure to deal with terrorism. Now they do.

Quote:2) Trump will, like Neville Chamberlain, appease and endorse Putin's land grabs in Crimea and Ukraine

There is no way he could endorse them any harder than Obama. Please refer to me a link where you bitched about Obama's incompetency on this, so you dont look like a flaming hypocrite.

Quote:3) Trump will remove US sanctions, harming US oil field workers

What sanctions will he remove that are currently PROTECTING US oil field workers. The only thing that protects or harms the oil field workers is the price per barrel of oil.

Quote:4) Trump will excuse Putin's war crimes in Syria and will ignore Putin's alliance with ISIS

What about Obama? Please back this up with links where you showed your butthurt over Obama doing this. Funny, how you are butthurt over what you think Trump will do, but silent on Obama doing just that. Links please.

Quote:5) Trump will excuse Putin's monsterous human rights abuses in Russia and his overt support for those abuses elsewhere

Like you excused Hillary for taking tens of millions in donations from countries that threw gays off of tall buildings?

Quote:6) Trump will destroy our nuclear deterrent

Yea, rebuilding our dilapidated nuclear arms is destroying our deterrent.

Please see the last 8 years of Obama to see how one does that. And please provide links where you criticized Obama for actually doing what, in your little dreamland, you accuse Trump of going to do.

Quote:And in return

7) Putin will not destroy any of its current nuclear capability, but will instead reduce its public plans to increase its nuclear arsenal by some minor amount.

Please show links where Putin destroyed any of his nuclear capability under Obama. Also, please show your links ripping Obama a new one for not forcing Putin to do so.

-----
Obama's sanctions hurt Putin - badly.

(01-16-2017 11:41 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 09:48 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 09:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Here's what Trump's "Good Deal" will engender

1) Trump will destroy NATO and the US' geopolitical advantages

Incorrect. He has already strengthened Nato while a candidate for pointing out their stupidity in not having a policy & procedure to deal with terrorism. Now they do.

Quote:2) Trump will, like Neville Chamberlain, appease and endorse Putin's land grabs in Crimea and Ukraine

There is no way he could endorse them any harder than Obama. Please refer to me a link where you bitched about Obama's incompetency on this, so you dont look like a flaming hypocrite.

Quote:3) Trump will remove US sanctions, harming US oil field workers

What sanctions will he remove that are currently PROTECTING US oil field workers. The only thing that protects or harms the oil field workers is the price per barrel of oil.

Quote:4) Trump will excuse Putin's war crimes in Syria and will ignore Putin's alliance with ISIS

What about Obama? Please back this up with links where you showed your butthurt over Obama doing this. Funny, how you are butthurt over what you think Trump will do, but silent on Obama doing just that. Links please.

Quote:5) Trump will excuse Putin's monsterous human rights abuses in Russia and his overt support for those abuses elsewhere

Like you excused Hillary for taking tens of millions in donations from countries that threw gays off of tall buildings?

Quote:6) Trump will destroy our nuclear deterrent

Yea, rebuilding our dilapidated nuclear arms is destroying our deterrent.

Please see the last 8 years of Obama to see how one does that. And please provide links where you criticized Obama for actually doing what, in your little dreamland, you accuse Trump of going to do.

Quote:And in return

7) Putin will not destroy any of its current nuclear capability, but will instead reduce its public plans to increase its nuclear arsenal by some minor amount.

Please show links where Putin destroyed any of his nuclear capability under Obama. Also, please show your links ripping Obama a new one for not forcing Putin to do so.

-----
Obama's sanctions hurt Putin - badly.

yea, he looks like he was in so much pain as he marched into Crimea. Or into the battlefield in Syria.

(01-16-2017 12:50 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 11:41 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 09:48 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 09:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Here's what Trump's "Good Deal" will engender

1) Trump will destroy NATO and the US' geopolitical advantages

Incorrect. He has already strengthened Nato while a candidate for pointing out their stupidity in not having a policy & procedure to deal with terrorism. Now they do.

Quote:2) Trump will, like Neville Chamberlain, appease and endorse Putin's land grabs in Crimea and Ukraine

There is no way he could endorse them any harder than Obama. Please refer to me a link where you bitched about Obama's incompetency on this, so you dont look like a flaming hypocrite.

Quote:3) Trump will remove US sanctions, harming US oil field workers

What sanctions will he remove that are currently PROTECTING US oil field workers. The only thing that protects or harms the oil field workers is the price per barrel of oil.

Quote:4) Trump will excuse Putin's war crimes in Syria and will ignore Putin's alliance with ISIS

What about Obama? Please back this up with links where you showed your butthurt over Obama doing this. Funny, how you are butthurt over what you think Trump will do, but silent on Obama doing just that. Links please.

Quote:5) Trump will excuse Putin's monsterous human rights abuses in Russia and his overt support for those abuses elsewhere

Like you excused Hillary for taking tens of millions in donations from countries that threw gays off of tall buildings?

Quote:6) Trump will destroy our nuclear deterrent

Yea, rebuilding our dilapidated nuclear arms is destroying our deterrent.

Please see the last 8 years of Obama to see how one does that. And please provide links where you criticized Obama for actually doing what, in your little dreamland, you accuse Trump of going to do.

Quote:And in return

7) Putin will not destroy any of its current nuclear capability, but will instead reduce its public plans to increase its nuclear arsenal by some minor amount.

Please show links where Putin destroyed any of his nuclear capability under Obama. Also, please show your links ripping Obama a new one for not forcing Putin to do so.

-----
Obama's sanctions hurt Putin - badly.

yea, he looks like he was in so much pain as he marched into Crimea. Or into the battlefield in Syria.

Obama is making Putin pay for Crimea. Trump will just pull a Neville Chamberlain on that.

Putin committed clear war crimes in Syria and is aligned with ISIS there.

(01-16-2017 12:55 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Putin committed clear war crimes in Syria and is aligned with ISIS there.

Syria is fighting ISIS and Russia is helping the Syrians

Again,

How is Russia aligned with ISIS?

(01-16-2017 01:26 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 12:55 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Putin committed clear war crimes in Syria and is aligned with ISIS there.

Syria is fighting ISIS and Russia is helping the Syrians

Again,

How is Russia aligned with ISIS?

Syria is NOT really attacking ISIS. And neither is Russia. Come on. Russia and Assad have a tacit agreement (at least) with ISIS.

(01-16-2017 01:27 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 01:26 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 12:55 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Putin committed clear war crimes in Syria and is aligned with ISIS there.

Syria is fighting ISIS and Russia is helping the Syrians

Again,

How is Russia aligned with ISIS?

Syria is NOT really attacking ISIS. And neither is Russia. Come on. Russia and Assad have a tacit agreement (at least) with ISIS.

So who is fighting against Asaad in Syria if not ISIS and radical Islamists?

(01-16-2017 09:41 AM)VA49er Wrote:  lol, man isn't even POTUS yet and he's already destroyed the world. I'm telling you all, it's mental. These people simply can not help themselves. THIS is what happens when the entitled do not get their way. We created this nonsense.

Oh you didn't hear VA? Tom has been diagnosed as TDS Patient Zero.

(01-15-2017 09:52 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 09:30 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  We'd be better served with the Russians as our allies than we would with half of our current ones.

The problem is that Russia's endgame involves the destruction of a long-standing ally (and a NATO member that DOES meet defense mandates) in Poland. Poland has also backed us up in the Middle East - and does a good job of not badmouthing us 24/7. They are a GOOD ally.

Conservatives have rightfully said "we should treat our friends better than our enemies". This statement should hold true with Poland.

To paraphrase a great statesman, we have interests only--not friends.

If in the great balance of things a friendship with Russia is favorable then we should make that choice.

I didn't like Kissinger.

Poland's a better ally, anyway. They're more reliable, and their endgame isn't against our wishes. I can't trust Russia to not do something catastrophically stupid and then pull us into it. Poland wouldn't dare frick with the order of operations in the world (and that's one where WE are #1).

If Russia were to westernize, then the calculus changes and you can make a great case that they're a better ally.

Right now, Russia's sinking in red ink (their debt isn't similar to ours for a few key reasons) with some rather terrible domestic conditions. The sanctions have set that country backwards - and now they'd be of little use to the USA. Obama has made them rather inept and unfit for a proper ally.

(01-14-2017 09:00 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 08:48 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 01:18 AM)banker Wrote:  I would expect the President elects' team to be in contact with several countries around the world on a regular basis. You don't start building relationships the day you take office. My guess is the same folks have been talking to most European, Far East, South American, etc. leaders and envoys also.

In other words, Trump is demonstrating that he knows how to do the job and is competent.

Pretty much.

I'm going to save this post for future reference.

(01-16-2017 09:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Here's what Trump's "Good Deal" will engender

1) Trump will destroy NATO and the US' geopolitical advantages
2) Trump will, like Neville Chamberlain, appease and endorse Putin's land grabs in Crimea and Ukraine
3) Trump will remove US sanctions, harming US oil field workers
4) Trump will excuse Putin's war crimes in Syria and will ignore Putin's alliance with ISIS
5) Trump will excuse Putin's monsterous human rights abuses in Russia and his overt support for those abuses elsewhere
6) Trump will destroy our nuclear deterrent

And in return

7) Putin will not destroy any of its current nuclear capability, but will instead reduce its public plans to increase its nuclear arsenal by some minor amount.
8) Putin and his oligarchs will continue to funnel cash to Donald Trump

Uhhhh, pretty sure you misspelled Obama in 1 through 6 above...