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Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
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BroncoPhilly Offline
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Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
What PJ brought that wasn't here before was excitement. And he could convey it in real time with memorable jingoism. Fleck wasn't a good X's and O's guys, but he could market this program better than anyone we ever had. And better than 99% of head coaches.

People came to Waldo even during our 1-11 season, just to see what this kooky Head Coach could do. He sold people on the program, on the excitement-made you want to come and see what was going on.

We had 8-5 years before, but we never had that kind of excitement, self-promotion and marketing before. And the wins came as we attracted better recruits.

What Lester needs to understand is this-there are thousands of football coaching candidates who can come in and coach this program. Maybe 15-20% can turn us into a consistent MAC contender. But if HE really wants to keep this program operating at a high level he needs to continue the excitement, the marketing, the promotion. Just being a good, solid, humble Head Coach is no longer good enough anymore.

Tim's a competitor, so I hope he's up to the challenge. What he's done in the past as HC is not up to Western's standards anymore. The bar has been raised.
01-13-2017 11:06 PM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
Waldo was empty when we went 1-11, sorry
01-13-2017 11:47 PM
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BroncoPhilly Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
(01-13-2017 11:47 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Waldo was empty when we went 1-11, sorry

Not at the games I was at.
01-13-2017 11:53 PM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
(01-13-2017 11:53 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  
(01-13-2017 11:47 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Waldo was empty when we went 1-11, sorry

Not at the games I was at.

Nicholls St (the home opener), CMU, and Homecoming are always pretty good crowds.
01-13-2017 11:59 PM
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BroncoPhilly Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
My chief point is PJ promoted the program effectively before the wins came-and he did. That needs to be part of any Head Coach's responsibilities moving forward.
01-14-2017 12:00 AM
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Gobroncos95 Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
I would like to see a full video of the team meeting. In the short video that was posted of the team cheering "Family" Lester looked like he barely had a pulse. I presume he was tired from a long day. He's going to need to bring more energy than displayed in that video.
01-14-2017 08:05 AM
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ESSSS Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
(01-13-2017 11:06 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  What PJ brought that wasn't here before was excitement.

IMHO....what he brought to WMU INITIALLY caused people to roll their eyes.

The excitement came when the winning started.

The new staff simply needs to win.
01-14-2017 08:10 AM
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stogie13 Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
(01-14-2017 08:10 AM)ESSSS Wrote:  
(01-13-2017 11:06 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  What PJ brought that wasn't here before was excitement.

IMHO....what he brought to WMU INITIALLY caused people to roll their eyes.

The excitement came when the winning started.

The new staff simply needs to win.

I live in Minnesota now and you are 100% correct. The energy and the attitude and everything being elite is good for radio jokes so far. They are excited to have him but some personalities just hate him, usually the 60+ year old sports writers.

If Lester can win at Western people will stay excited. Though a little bit of the shameless promotion when we are doing well doesn't hurt.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2017 08:20 AM by stogie13.)
01-14-2017 08:19 AM
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rsswmu Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
Lester needs to be himself. Nothing will make him fail quicker than trying to be pj. He needs to keep around things that made us win like the ball is the program drills and tweak things we can do better. The one nice thing about hiring Lester is he probably has a great understanding of things we did that he needs to keep and things he needs to tweak. Because even though we won 13 games last year we were not perfect. No team is so he needs to keep the winning culture and mold it towards his ideals to make it even better.

Tim will show me a lot at the preser today. I want minimal time spent on it's good to be back and more time on his vision to keep advancing the program. Although he was not on my top 5 list I will support him and give him the benefit of the doubt. I hope he wins a lot and stays around for a long time.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2017 08:25 AM by rsswmu.)
01-14-2017 08:24 AM
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BroncoPhilly Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
(01-14-2017 08:19 AM)stogie13 Wrote:  
(01-14-2017 08:10 AM)ESSSS Wrote:  
(01-13-2017 11:06 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  What PJ brought that wasn't here before was excitement.

IMHO....what he brought to WMU INITIALLY caused people to roll their eyes.

The excitement came when the winning started.

The new staff simply needs to win.

I live in Minnesota now and you are 100% correct. The energy and the attitude and everything being elite is good for radio jokes so far. They are excited to have him but some personalities just hate him, usually the 60+ year old sports writers.

If Lester can win at Western people will stay excited. Though a little bit of the shameless promotion when we are doing well doesn't hurt.


PJ's excitement attracts good recruits. A lot of folks at WMU made fun of him as well-until we had back to back to back 'Best in MAC' recruiting classes. Until we started grabbing kids who had Big 10 offers. Call it hokey if you will, but '60 year old sports writers' don't play the games, they report on it. The kids who play the games eat his stuff up. And we've had winning coaches at WMU in the past. The problem is, the winning didn't become entrenched in the program-it came and went.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2017 08:28 AM by BroncoPhilly.)
01-14-2017 08:27 AM
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ESSSS Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
(01-14-2017 08:19 AM)stogie13 Wrote:  Though a little bit of the shameless promotion when we are doing well doesn't hurt.

A word of caution.

The "shameless promotion" is meant to promote PJF.

You will learn this with time.

When the winning started here, WMU and the community were fooled into thinking the promotion was about them.

It INCLUDED THEM, but only peripherally.

They were only along for the ride.

The "ride" may have been worth it (some would argue this point), but don't be confused about what is really happening.
01-14-2017 08:30 AM
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BroncoPhilly Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
(01-14-2017 08:30 AM)ESSSS Wrote:  
(01-14-2017 08:19 AM)stogie13 Wrote:  Though a little bit of the shameless promotion when we are doing well doesn't hurt.

A word of caution.

The "shameless promotion" is meant to promote PJF.

You will learn this with time.

When the winning started here, WMU and the community were fooled into thinking the promotion was about them.

It INCLUDED THEM, but only peripherally.

They were only along for the ride.

The "ride" may have been worth it (some would argue this point), but don't be confused about what is really happening.


The bottom line is it worked, Esss. Like it or not, call it hokey or not, WMU football has NEVER done before what it did the last season. Never had that success before, not even close. Self-promotion is very common among top coaches, it goes with that territory. George Patton had it as well.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2017 08:40 AM by BroncoPhilly.)
01-14-2017 08:33 AM
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ESSSS Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
(01-14-2017 08:33 AM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  The bottom line is it worked, Esss.

Yes, it worked very well.

Time to look ahead.
01-14-2017 08:35 AM
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stogie13 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
(01-14-2017 08:30 AM)ESSSS Wrote:  
(01-14-2017 08:19 AM)stogie13 Wrote:  Though a little bit of the shameless promotion when we are doing well doesn't hurt.

A word of caution.

The "shameless promotion" is meant to promote PJF.

You will learn this with time.

When the winning started here, WMU and the community were fooled into thinking the promotion was about them.

It INCLUDED THEM, but only peripherally.

They were only along for the ride.

The "ride" may have been worth it (some would argue this point), but don't be confused about what is really happening.

Of course it was about the coach. I just don't really have a problem with that. Even if it was meant to get people to pay attention to PJF he still wanted a packed stadium and energy and excitement around the community. That's a good thing for all involved.
01-14-2017 08:39 AM
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Hiller4Hyz09 Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
(01-14-2017 08:24 AM)rsswmu Wrote:  Lester needs to be himself. Nothing will make him fail quicker than trying to be pj. He needs to keep around things that made us win like the ball is the program drills and tweak things we can do better. The one nice thing about hiring Lester is he probably has a great understanding of things we did that he needs to keep and things he needs to tweak. Because even though we won 13 games last year we were not perfect. No team is so he needs to keep the winning culture and mold it towards his ideals to make it even better.

Tim will show me a lot at the preser today. I want minimal time spent on it's good to be back and more time on his vision to keep advancing the program. Although he was not on my top 5 list I will support him and give him the benefit of the doubt. I hope he wins a lot and stays around for a long time.

Bam!
01-14-2017 08:43 AM
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Liam9903 Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
Looking ahead does not mean that our coach needs to adhere to a PJ Fleck model. Fleck was a one shot deal and his lasting contribution will be showing this University and community what is possible with vision and drive (and great recruiting). Gimmicks aren't needed and excuses are no longer welcome.
01-14-2017 08:45 AM
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BroncoJim Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
(01-14-2017 08:39 AM)stogie13 Wrote:  
(01-14-2017 08:30 AM)ESSSS Wrote:  
(01-14-2017 08:19 AM)stogie13 Wrote:  Though a little bit of the shameless promotion when we are doing well doesn't hurt.

A word of caution.

The "shameless promotion" is meant to promote PJF.

You will learn this with time.

When the winning started here, WMU and the community were fooled into thinking the promotion was about them.

It INCLUDED THEM, but only peripherally.

They were only along for the ride.

The "ride" may have been worth it (some would argue this point), but don't be confused about what is really happening.

Of course it was about the coach. I just don't really have a problem with that. Even if it was meant to get people to pay attention to PJF he still wanted a packed stadium and energy and excitement around the community. That's a good thing for all involved.

Exactly. Self-promotion and increasing your "celebrity" is a big factor in recruiting upper-echelon talent (particularly in the G5). You want potential recruits to not only know who you are, but to be genuinely excited to be getting your attention. Do you think kids were thinking, "holy $hit, Bill Cubit is standing in my living room!"? Not likely. But I'll wager that they are when PJ is standing there.

Sure, it can bite you in the ass when the coach leaves - as we're seeing now - but it sure helps bring in strong recruiting classes. So I saw the PJ self-promotion machine as nothing but a good thing for WMU, even though it wasn't really about "us".
01-14-2017 09:09 AM
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BroncoPhilly Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
Quote:Exactly. Self-promotion and increasing your "celebrity" is a big factor in recruiting upper-echelon talent (particularly in the G5). You want potential recruits to not only know who you are, but to be genuinely excited to be getting your attention. Do you think kids were thinking, "holy $hit, Bill Cubit is standing in my living room!"? Not likely. But I'll wager that they are when PJ is standing there.

Sure, it can bite you in the ass when the coach leaves - as we're seeing now - but it sure helps bring in strong recruiting classes. So I saw the PJ self-promotion machine as nothing but a good thing for WMU, even though it wasn't really about "us".


General Patton was shamelessly about self-promotion as well. So what? He won. You need some schtick to separate you from the pack when you as a Head Coach go in front of top recruits. If you don't have that, you blend into the background. You don't stand out. PJ was an expert at that, he attracted top talent. Nothing wrong with that.
01-14-2017 09:47 AM
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ESSSS Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
[quote='BroncoPhilly' pid='13998519' dateline='1484405258']
Quote:General Patton was shamelessly about self-promotion as well.

A good analogy in some ways.

But there are some (not so subtle) differences.

Patton's job was to lead an army into war.

PJF was an employee at a public university.

PJF's "schtick" (your word) wasn't limited to the recruiting process.

Treating civilians (bosses, peers, assistants, etc) and non-recruits (everyday folks) as if you're Patton and they are soldiers doesn't ALWAYS work out

It did in this case.

While it lasted.....
01-14-2017 10:11 AM
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MajorHoople Offline
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RE: Before the wins came, there was the excitement.
Quote:General Patton was shamelessly about self-promotion as well. So what? He won. You need some schtick to separate you from the pack when you as a Head Coach go in front of top recruits. If you don't have that, you blend into the background. You don't stand out. PJ was an expert at that, he attracted top talent. Nothing wrong with that.

According to Marv Levy, the Hall of Fame NFL coach who fought in WWII - the men loved Eisenhower and Omar Bradley, but hated Patton.

And Patton got fired.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2017 10:23 AM by MajorHoople.)
01-14-2017 10:22 AM
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