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(01-14-2017 11:02 AM)ejd_5277 Wrote:  All people remember about Boise bursting on to the scene was that Statue-of-Liberty play to beat Oklahoma in the 2007 Fiesta Bowl, but does anyone remember that they actually went 73-16 in the seven years PRIOR to that, starting in 1999? Probably not. I certainly didn't... I had to look it up.

And all that 73-16 record got them was a series of minor bowl invites during that stretch.

My point is that it takes years and years of sustained success before that breakthrough moment arrives... particularly at the G5 level.... and we are in a much more difficult position logistically than Boise is if for no other reason than the amount of P5 competition within a 4-hour drive of Kalamazoo. Gotta be patient here, gang.

The minimum expectation for any college program for successful year is 10 wins minimum. All of this talk of 8 wins being successful is maddening. Literally 10 wins minimum - that's what it should've been for past 10 years, no matter if we had gotten there or not. And now that we all know we can - that is full stop the expectation.

(01-14-2017 11:51 AM)lancergolf1 Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 11:02 AM)ejd_5277 Wrote:  All people remember about Boise bursting on to the scene was that Statue-of-Liberty play to beat Oklahoma in the 2007 Fiesta Bowl, but does anyone remember that they actually went 73-16 in the seven years PRIOR to that, starting in 1999? Probably not. I certainly didn't... I had to look it up.

And all that 73-16 record got them was a series of minor bowl invites during that stretch.

My point is that it takes years and years of sustained success before that breakthrough moment arrives... particularly at the G5 level.... and we are in a much more difficult position logistically than Boise is if for no other reason than the amount of P5 competition within a 4-hour drive of Kalamazoo. Gotta be patient here, gang.

The minimum expectation for any college program for successful year is 10 wins minimum. All of this talk of 8 wins being successful is maddening. Literally 10 wins minimum - that's what it should've been for past 10 years, no matter if we had gotten there or not. And now that we all know we can - that is full stop the expectation.

When did you start following the MAC?

(01-14-2017 11:51 AM)lancergolf1 Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 11:02 AM)ejd_5277 Wrote:  All people remember about Boise bursting on to the scene was that Statue-of-Liberty play to beat Oklahoma in the 2007 Fiesta Bowl, but does anyone remember that they actually went 73-16 in the seven years PRIOR to that, starting in 1999? Probably not. I certainly didn't... I had to look it up.

And all that 73-16 record got them was a series of minor bowl invites during that stretch.

My point is that it takes years and years of sustained success before that breakthrough moment arrives... particularly at the G5 level.... and we are in a much more difficult position logistically than Boise is if for no other reason than the amount of P5 competition within a 4-hour drive of Kalamazoo. Gotta be patient here, gang.

The minimum expectation for any college program for successful year is 10 wins minimum. All of this talk of 8 wins being successful is maddening. Literally 10 wins minimum - that's what it should've been for past 10 years, no matter if we had gotten there or not. And now that we all know we can - that is full stop the expectation.

Agreed. Anything less than that is settling.

You guys kill me...

Since 2005, only SIXTEEN MAC teams have won 10 or more games in a season. That's an average of less than two per year. In two seasons, (2005 and 2007 I believe,) no MAC teams reached double digit wins.

I realize that we live in a world of instant gratification... nowhere is that more evident than on this board sometimes.

We're coming off arguably the best season ever put together by a MAC football team, and now anything short of replicating that is going to be considered a failure? We gotta get real here.

(01-14-2017 12:08 PM)ejd_5277 Wrote:  You guys kill me...

Since 2005, only SIXTEEN MAC teams have won 10 or more games in a season. That's an average of less than two per year. In two seasons, (2005 and 2007 I believe,) no MAC teams reached double digit wins.

I realize that we live in a world of instant gratification... nowhere is that more evident than on this board sometimes.

We're coming arguably the best season ever put together by a MAC football team, and now anything short of replicating that is going to be considered a failure? We gotta get real here.

We have a realistic chance to win 10 next year. We will be one of the favorites to win the MAC probably along with Miami and Toledo.

We should want to win 10 every year. We should expect to win at least 8 every year.

(01-14-2017 12:10 PM)rsswmu Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 12:08 PM)ejd_5277 Wrote:  You guys kill me...

Since 2005, only SIXTEEN MAC teams have won 10 or more games in a season. That's an average of less than two per year. In two seasons, (2005 and 2007 I believe,) no MAC teams reached double digit wins.

I realize that we live in a world of instant gratification... nowhere is that more evident than on this board sometimes.

We're coming arguably the best season ever put together by a MAC football team, and now anything short of replicating that is going to be considered a failure? We gotta get real here.

We have a realistic chance to win 10 next year. We will be one of the favorites to win the MAC probably along with Miami and Toledo.

We should want to win 10 every year. We should expect to win at least 8 every year.

Agreed, I don't know what 'ejd's' problem is. A coach should reasonably expect to win EVERY game on his schedule every season. Reality is, he probably won't-but the expectation should be there.

We just went 13-1 with a lot of the team coming back. OK, USC and MSU might be a stretch next season (MSU maybe not so much) with a new QB and WRers for us, but the rest are surely all winnable. Anything less that that is settling.

I should have clarified: my issue was more with Lancer's post than it was with rsswmu's or Philly's.

In fact I agree that with what we return 10 wins is not at all out of the question next year.

Lancer's talk of "10 wins minimum to be considered a successful college program" is simply not realistic though, especially in the MAC with the brutal OOC road games that are routinely scheduled.

(01-14-2017 02:12 PM)ejd_5277 Wrote:  I should have clarified: my issue was more with Lancer's post than it was with rsswmu's or Philly's.

In fact I agree that with what we return 10 wins is not at all out of the question next year.

Lancer's talk of "10 wins minimum to be considered a successful college program" is simply not realistic though, especially in the MAC with the brutal OOC road games that are routinely scheduled.

You can still lose 3-4 games and still get 10 wins. Come on now. Understand Maction - but we have better athletes and coaching (hopefully) - you win. That's it.

I understand the MAC far better than you do, trust me on this.

I understand that's it's virtually impossible to keep quality young coaches in this league, (HC's OR assistants) making the program continuity that leads to multiple successive double-digit win seasons next to impossible.

I understand that every team in the MAC has at least one brutal OOC P5 road game on its schedule each and every year, and sometimes 2 or 3 per season.... Not every team can win enough conference games to make up for that.

I understand that the facilities at most MAC schools are not on par with our P5 brethren, making recruiting top talent even more of a challenge*

(*this is an area where we DO have a distinct leg up on the rest of the conference.)

I understand the unique challenges and disruptions presented by playing multiple midweek games in the latter half of the season to fill ESPN time slots. It's staggering how many teams (particularly favorites recently) simply don't show up prepared for those games.

What do YOU understand that I'm missing?

Hell, we probably made the biggest run at keeping a successful coach ever in the MAC. Still came up short.

(01-14-2017 03:45 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  Hell, we probably made the biggest run at keeping a successful coach ever in the MAC. Still came up short.

"WE" (as in the university, alumni, fans) didn't - perhaps his big money "Boosters" did.

He left them too.

But, hey - who can blame him?

After all, Minnesota is his "dream job."

Quote:In fact I agree that with what we return 10 wins is not at all out of the question next year.

I think there's too many question marks on QB to feel confident in anything too positive. It's not like we had a steady backup passing qb who'd come in late 3rd Q in our blowout games and who's a junior this year or something. Too many question marks to have any confidence on way or the other. This is a real test to see how our recruited talent rises to the occasion, like on WR.

@USC - LOSS.

@MSU - Too many question marks with them. Pivotal year for them. Could be an upset win, but being Realistic -- LOSS. I think MSU's bouncing back to be at least a 7, likely 8W team.

Idaho - Don't count the potato pickers out. They were 9-4 this past year, and this is their last year in the FBS, going out with a 'bang'. Senior QB, main RB back, but will lose a go-to receiver. Won't be a gimmie game, and wouldn't be earth shattering if our O is getting off to a rusty & mistake ridden start to lose the game. We Should win though.

Wagner - 6-5 this past year, 0-2 FBS (BC & UMass). We should obviously whip them and get our ducks in a row.

@NIU - How good is Rod Carey? We shall see. HUGE Pivotal year for NIU. Even this past year in Kzoo they played us tight through most of it.

@Toledo - Don't count on us winning this one.

CMU - It's good we have it at home. Not a good environment for them to capitalize on their desire for revenge after we punked them this past year.

@EMU - Jailbreak! Wouldn't be earth-shattering if they beat us, if they continue to improve under their miracle coach (yes, any coach who can make EMU .500 or better IS a miracle)

BSU - If we have our ducks in a row, we should handle this one.

3 MAC East - We have 2 at home, 1 away this time:
- Hopefully if we play Miami or Ohio, it's a home game. Hopefully the away one is something like Kent or Buffalo.
- Most likely a Tough Matchup here; possibly two.

The MAC had a not so impressive year (aside from WMU of course) -- and I think this next year overall it'll be better. I think our road will be a little tougher by that alone, and with NIU & Toledo on the road, and with a Clearly tougher OOC schedule, even with the same team, we wouldn't be as slick.

8-4? 7-5? 9-3? Possibly 10-2?

I think it depends on how well our O gels -- with a new QB, 2 new go-to WRs, and a new OC. Thank Gawd we have Lester as QB Coach for the new QB coming in. :)

I'm still sticking with 8-4 (2-2 OOC, 6-2 MAC).

Btw, is EMU the only MAC West team with a starting QB returning?

(01-14-2017 03:45 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  Hell, we probably made the biggest run at keeping a successful coach ever in the MAC. Still came up short.

For sure. I doubt it's even close.

We supposedly offered over $20 M over 10 years. I doubt any MAC coach ever has been offered even half of that.

(01-14-2017 05:26 PM)ejd_5277 Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 03:45 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  Hell, we probably made the biggest run at keeping a successful coach ever in the MAC. Still came up short.

For sure. I doubt it's even close.

We supposedly offered over $20 M over 10 years. I doubt any MAC coach ever has been offered even half of that.

Just read on twitter that it was $30 Million over 10 years... thats an INSANE contract from a MAC school...

(01-14-2017 05:29 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 05:26 PM)ejd_5277 Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 03:45 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  Hell, we probably made the biggest run at keeping a successful coach ever in the MAC. Still came up short.

For sure. I doubt it's even close.

We supposedly offered over $20 M over 10 years. I doubt any MAC coach ever has been offered even half of that.

Just read on twitter that it was $30 Million over 10 years... thats an INSANE contract from a MAC school...

Look at it this way-Coach Lester likes being back at WMU. No....He LOVES being back at WMU. He must have many great memories.

IF he can get WMU to the level where we are EVERY YEAR a 9 or 10 win team with an invite to a quality bowl game-frequent MACC appearances and just half the exposure PJ got for the program-he's going to be getting compensation in that neighborhood. And without all the hassle being a HC in the Big 10 has to endure.

What a peach job that would be for him, or any good HC. Let's hope he gets there!

(01-14-2017 03:49 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  After all, Minnesota is his "dream job."

Well, of course! Isn't Minne-so-so every coaches dream job??

(01-14-2017 05:29 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 05:26 PM)ejd_5277 Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 03:45 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  Hell, we probably made the biggest run at keeping a successful coach ever in the MAC. Still came up short.

For sure. I doubt it's even close.

We supposedly offered over $20 M over 10 years. I doubt any MAC coach ever has been offered even half of that.

Just read on twitter that it was $30 Million over 10 years... thats an INSANE contract from a MAC school...

Further proof he wanted out the door. WMU was used as leverage plain and simple. After all we did to negotiate in good faith he was already gone. Have some integrity for gods sake! If this is the way it's done I'd find another line of work.

(01-14-2017 03:59 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:In fact I agree that with what we return 10 wins is not at all out of the question next year.

I think there's too many question marks on QB to feel confident in anything too positive. It's not like we had a steady backup passing qb who'd come in late 3rd Q in our blowout games and who's a junior this year or something. Too many question marks to have any confidence on way or the other. This is a real test to see how our recruited talent rises to the occasion, like on WR.

@USC - LOSS.

@MSU - Too many question marks with them. Pivotal year for them. Could be an upset win, but being Realistic -- LOSS. I think MSU's bouncing back to be at least a 7, likely 8W team.

Idaho - Don't count the potato pickers out. They were 9-4 this past year, and this is their last year in the FBS, going out with a 'bang'. Senior QB, main RB back, but will lose a go-to receiver. Won't be a gimmie game, and wouldn't be earth shattering if our O is getting off to a rusty & mistake ridden start to lose the game. We Should win though.

Wagner - 6-5 this past year, 0-2 FBS (BC & UMass). We should obviously whip them and get our ducks in a row.

@NIU - How good is Rod Carey? We shall see. HUGE Pivotal year for NIU. Even this past year in Kzoo they played us tight through most of it.

@Toledo - Don't count on us winning this one.

CMU - It's good we have it at home. Not a good environment for them to capitalize on their desire for revenge after we punked them this past year.

@EMU - Jailbreak! Wouldn't be earth-shattering if they beat us, if they continue to improve under their miracle coach (yes, any coach who can make EMU .500 or better IS a miracle)

BSU - If we have our ducks in a row, we should handle this one.

3 MAC East - We have 2 at home, 1 away this time:
- Hopefully if we play Miami or Ohio, it's a home game. Hopefully the away one is something like Kent or Buffalo.
- Most likely a Tough Matchup here; possibly two.

The MAC had a not so impressive year (aside from WMU of course) -- and I think this next year overall it'll be better. I think our road will be a little tougher by that alone, and with NIU & Toledo on the road, and with a Clearly tougher OOC schedule, even with the same team, we wouldn't be as slick.

8-4? 7-5? 9-3? Possibly 10-2?

I think it depends on how well our O gels -- with a new QB, 2 new go-to WRs, and a new OC. Thank Gawd we have Lester as QB Coach for the new QB coming in. :)

There is NO EXCUSE for not getting 8 wins next season. And if we are still on an upward trajectory 9 or 10 wins is not that much of a stretch.

It all depends on developing our QB's and WRers. We have 7 months to work on that-and plug any holes we find.

Roll up the sleaves time.

(01-14-2017 03:59 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  @Toledo - Don't count on us winning this one.

Why not? Woodside, Hunt, and Roberts have all moved on. We've beaten them twice in a row. On paper, we return more talent.

I'm not saying chalk it up as a W, but I don't see how we'd be significant underdogs, even on the road.