91Alum, you didn't like the O'Regan hire? I didn't consider him a low-ball hire, although I did see him as the obvious safe choice. I didn't expect us to go out & find the Mike Houston equivalent WBB coach. We never seem to have great success attracting a bigger name for hoops.

I don't know much about hotel and restaurant management, can I assume JMU has that major and that a better than decent hotel on campus becomes part classroom?

HTM would be involved, yes? College of Business

(01-24-2017 06:11 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  I don't know much about hotel and restaurant management, can I assume JMU has that major and that a better than decent hotel on campus becomes part classroom?

Yes to both questions (although to call the Hotel a "classroom" setting is a bit of a misnomer). The JMU School of Hospitality just received a $3.5 million endowment last year, and was named after the couple who made the gift. I'm sure the newly built Hotel Madison will provide real hands-on experience for hospitality majors, but it isn't being built to serve as an educational setting. It will be an upscale 200+ room hotel and conference center first.

(01-24-2017 06:23 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  HTM would be involved, yes? College of Business

No longer is Hospitality part of the COB. It's now its own school

Oh snaaaaap. Didn't know!

(01-24-2017 08:05 PM)RootinFerDukes Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 06:23 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  HTM would be involved, yes? College of Business

No longer is Hospitality part of the COB. It's now its own school

not sure I'd consider it "it's own school" it is part of HART School, HTM and Sports/Rec Management are now combined.

Which is more common for HTM programs with other P5 institutions (Purdue who has one of the top 3 HTM programs in the nation, Michigan, Indiana - their HTM programs are in the same school as the Sports/Human Services School)

(01-25-2017 09:05 AM)JMUrcc06 Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 08:05 PM)RootinFerDukes Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 06:23 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  HTM would be involved, yes? College of Business

No longer is Hospitality part of the COB. It's now its own school

not sure I'd consider it "it's own school" it is part of HART School, HTM and Sports/Rec Management are now combined.

Which is more common for HTM programs with other P5 institutions (Purdue who has one of the top 3 HTM programs in the nation, Michigan, Indiana - their HTM programs are in the same school as the Sports/Human Services School)

My point was it's not part of the business school. It no longer is.

(01-25-2017 09:11 AM)RootinFerDukes Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 09:05 AM)JMUrcc06 Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 08:05 PM)RootinFerDukes Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 06:23 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  HTM would be involved, yes? College of Business

No longer is Hospitality part of the COB. It's now its own school

not sure I'd consider it "it's own school" it is part of HART School, HTM and Sports/Rec Management are now combined.

Which is more common for HTM programs with other P5 institutions (Purdue who has one of the top 3 HTM programs in the nation, Michigan, Indiana - their HTM programs are in the same school as the Sports/Human Services School)

My point was it's not part of the business school. It no longer is.

then you should have stopped after your first period. I was offering more complete and accurate info, with a bit of context, to the rest of the board.

(01-24-2017 01:19 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  91Alum, you didn't like the O'Regan hire? I didn't consider him a low-ball hire, although I did see him as the obvious safe choice. I didn't expect us to go out & find the Mike Houston equivalent WBB coach. We never seem to have great success attracting a bigger name for hoops.

I'm not necessarily against O'Ragan. It was the safe hire to be sure and I frankly don't know enough about him as an assistant to opine as to whether his was/is a good hire. In the case of WBB, I was referring to our decision to completely lowball our offer of a raise to Kenny. I know there was no way we could compete with the money VT was offering Kenny, but at that point just wish him well. Don't embarrass yourself by offering $25K or whatever it was.

In both cases I believe we are paying our current coaches less than their predecessors. Neither can be viewed as an obvious upgrade. We were dragged kicking and screaming into COA. Nothing we've done indicates a serious effort or determination to improve our hoops squads or to get us into a better league. So why this Taj Mahal?

Very good points on the new basketball facility. I support the build because I think it positions us well for a future conference move, but I understand why it might seem like wasteful spending to some.

I get the feeling I didn't get a response from JB in December (asking how I could help fund the full band to Frisco) because of a previous email. I sent a polite, but honest email during the week of the SMU game in September 2015 in regard to that absurd letter VMI published & my fear that we were about to lose Kenny Brooks if we don't offer a COA stipend. Mr. Alger must have been in people-pleasing mode due to the backlash from the "leak" as he & I wrote back & forth a few times discussing the issues. JB never responded, despite Mr. Alger reassuring me that I would hear from the AD on some of the specifics. Nope, just crickets.

Despite me being absolutely right about those two things, I think I got put on some ignore list because they didn't like that I addressed those directly to them. It saddens me that despite my opinion, I just want to help, & that's being ignored because of EGO.

Stewart Mandel chiming in on the FCS v. G5 debate (last question in his mailbag).

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...bag-012517

(01-25-2017 01:48 PM)White Hall Wrote:  Stewart Mandel chiming in on the FCS v. G5 debate (last question in his mailbag).

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...bag-012517

That's my question! I took a chance that in the offseason he'd entertain a FCS question.

(01-25-2017 02:58 PM)QuinDuke Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 01:48 PM)White Hall Wrote:  Stewart Mandel chiming in on the FCS v. G5 debate (last question in his mailbag).

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...bag-012517

That's my question! I took a chance that in the offseason he'd entertain a FCS question.

Good work Quin!

(01-25-2017 09:34 AM)JMUrcc06 Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 09:11 AM)RootinFerDukes Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 09:05 AM)JMUrcc06 Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 08:05 PM)RootinFerDukes Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 06:23 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  HTM would be involved, yes? College of Business

No longer is Hospitality part of the COB. It's now its own school

not sure I'd consider it "it's own school" it is part of HART School, HTM and Sports/Rec Management are now combined.

Which is more common for HTM programs with other P5 institutions (Purdue who has one of the top 3 HTM programs in the nation, Michigan, Indiana - their HTM programs are in the same school as the Sports/Human Services School)

My point was it's not part of the business school. It no longer is.

then you should have stopped after your first period. I was offering more complete and accurate info, with a bit of context, to the rest of the board.

I'm being sincere when I mean this, but thanks for adding clarification.

(01-23-2017 09:48 PM)91Alum Wrote:  

(01-23-2017 07:07 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(01-23-2017 06:58 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  why do we need the new convo so badly? meeting space for hburg?

In part. It's the way the replacement will be designed that will make it much more useable (than the Convo), for everything from sporting events to concerts and smaller civic events. The truth is (and any objective look at the Convo supports this conclusion) the Convo was a bastardized design forced into existence by Ron Carrier. It was a brilliant move on Ron's part (at the time), but the Convo never served any purpose well, and in most applications it does a very poor job. It's just a freaking metal barn, and its functionally and mechanically obsolete.

Agree the Convo (in hindsight) was ill-designed, but I honestly don't see the need to spend $88M on a new one. I keep hearing the "multi-purpose" argument, but how much money does JMU really stand to make hosting events there? And to be blunt, if our future is in the CAA, the Convo is still nicer than most of the barns and high school gyms we play our road games in.

For the record, I think the hotel will prove to be a mistake too.

I remember App State had an on/near campus hotel/conference center, the Broyhill Inn, only because I stayed there for the JMU @ ASU 2007 playoff game. It closed down in 2011.
http://www.wataugademocrat.com/community...71f63.html
Hopefully JMU's will fare better that ASU's & GMU's..

(01-25-2017 11:49 AM)91Alum Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 01:19 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  91Alum, you didn't like the O'Regan hire? I didn't consider him a low-ball hire, although I did see him as the obvious safe choice. I didn't expect us to go out & find the Mike Houston equivalent WBB coach. We never seem to have great success attracting a bigger name for hoops.

I'm not necessarily against O'Ragan. It was the safe hire to be sure and I frankly don't know enough about him as an assistant to opine as to whether his was/is a good hire. In the case of WBB, I was referring to our decision to completely lowball our offer of a raise to Kenny. I know there was no way we could compete with the money VT was offering Kenny, but at that point just wish him well. Don't embarrass yourself by offering $25K or whatever it was.

In both cases I believe we are paying our current coaches less than their predecessors. Neither can be viewed as an obvious upgrade. We were dragged kicking and screaming into COA. Nothing we've done indicates a serious effort or determination to improve our hoops squads or to get us into a better league. So why this Taj Mahal?

Because facilities matter in terms of recruiting and fan interest. Sure the bump in fan interest may be temporary and ultimately you need to produce a winning product that's exciting to watch, opponents that garner some interest, and you need to be consistent- can't afford too many ups and downs- but it all starts with the arena. Because an antiquated basketball arena doesn't match with the rest of JMU's athletics facilities. Don't let the coaching changes alter the way you view the way the admin thinks about basketball. Of course they care and want basketball to be successful. That's why in the case of the men's program they weren't ok with 4th place finishes, 1 and done post seasons, and CIT/CBI appearances. You could try to be successful in spite of the facilities or you can build new facilities and realize a boost in the program that coincides with better players a stronger culture and winning basketball.

(01-25-2017 10:51 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 11:49 AM)91Alum Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 01:19 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  91Alum, you didn't like the O'Regan hire? I didn't consider him a low-ball hire, although I did see him as the obvious safe choice. I didn't expect us to go out & find the Mike Houston equivalent WBB coach. We never seem to have great success attracting a bigger name for hoops.

I'm not necessarily against O'Ragan. It was the safe hire to be sure and I frankly don't know enough about him as an assistant to opine as to whether his was/is a good hire. In the case of WBB, I was referring to our decision to completely lowball our offer of a raise to Kenny. I know there was no way we could compete with the money VT was offering Kenny, but at that point just wish him well. Don't embarrass yourself by offering $25K or whatever it was.

In both cases I believe we are paying our current coaches less than their predecessors. Neither can be viewed as an obvious upgrade. We were dragged kicking and screaming into COA. Nothing we've done indicates a serious effort or determination to improve our hoops squads or to get us into a better league. So why this Taj Mahal?

Because facilities matter in terms of recruiting and fan interest. Sure the bump in fan interest may be temporary and ultimately you need to produce a winning product that's exciting to watch, opponents that garner some interest, and you need to be consistent- can't afford too many ups and downs- but it all starts with the arena. Because an antiquated basketball arena doesn't match with the rest of JMU's athletics facilities. Don't let the coaching changes alter the way you view the way the admin thinks about basketball. Of course they care and want basketball to be successful. That's why in the case of the men's program they weren't ok with 4th place finishes, 1 and done post seasons, and CIT/CBI appearances. You could try to be successful in spite of the facilities or you can build new facilities and realize a boost in the program that coincides with better players a stronger culture and winning basketball.

So it's the Field of Dreams approach. Build it and they will come. I guess my view is that we have been raising funds for years trying to get a $12M down payment so we can borrow another $76M in order to build this new facility. At the same time, we pay our head basketball coaches $260K and $180K (Rowe and O'Regan respectively). Kevin Keats makes $350K at UNCW. A-10 coaches make up to $1M. The Stony Brook coach makes $400K in the America East Conference, for Pete's sake.

I understand your argument that the Convo is a tough sell to recruits. But a good coach - one who knows how to recruit and develop players - is worth his weight in gold to a program. If I were an enterprising AD, I'd be reaching out to donors to try to get commitments for an extra $200K per year to bring in a "next level" coach. Whether it's permissible to directly earmark donations specifically in that manner, I have no idea. But I have no doubt it could be done, and I posit we would get a MUCH bigger bang for our fundraising buck getting an established, proven coach.

Source

(01-26-2017 12:28 AM)91Alum Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 10:51 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 11:49 AM)91Alum Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 01:19 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  91Alum, you didn't like the O'Regan hire? I didn't consider him a low-ball hire, although I did see him as the obvious safe choice. I didn't expect us to go out & find the Mike Houston equivalent WBB coach. We never seem to have great success attracting a bigger name for hoops.

I'm not necessarily against O'Ragan. It was the safe hire to be sure and I frankly don't know enough about him as an assistant to opine as to whether his was/is a good hire. In the case of WBB, I was referring to our decision to completely lowball our offer of a raise to Kenny. I know there was no way we could compete with the money VT was offering Kenny, but at that point just wish him well. Don't embarrass yourself by offering $25K or whatever it was.

In both cases I believe we are paying our current coaches less than their predecessors. Neither can be viewed as an obvious upgrade. We were dragged kicking and screaming into COA. Nothing we've done indicates a serious effort or determination to improve our hoops squads or to get us into a better league. So why this Taj Mahal?

Because facilities matter in terms of recruiting and fan interest. Sure the bump in fan interest may be temporary and ultimately you need to produce a winning product that's exciting to watch, opponents that garner some interest, and you need to be consistent- can't afford too many ups and downs- but it all starts with the arena. Because an antiquated basketball arena doesn't match with the rest of JMU's athletics facilities. Don't let the coaching changes alter the way you view the way the admin thinks about basketball. Of course they care and want basketball to be successful. That's why in the case of the men's program they weren't ok with 4th place finishes, 1 and done post seasons, and CIT/CBI appearances. You could try to be successful in spite of the facilities or you can build new facilities and realize a boost in the program that coincides with better players a stronger culture and winning basketball.

So it's the Field of Dreams approach. Build it and they will come. I guess my view is that we have been raising funds for years trying to get a $12M down payment so we can borrow another $76M in order to build this new facility. At the same time, we pay our head basketball coaches $260K and $180K (Rowe and O'Regan respectively). Kevin Keats makes $350K at UNCW. A-10 coaches make up to $1M. The Stony Brook coach makes $400K in the America East Conference, for Pete's sake.

I understand your argument that the Convo is a tough sell to recruits. But a good coach - one who knows how to recruit and develop players - is worth his weight in gold to a program. If I were an enterprising AD, I'd be reaching out to donors to try to get commitments for an extra $200K per year to bring in a "next level" coach. Whether it's permissible to directly earmark donations specifically in that manner, I have no idea. But I have no doubt it could be done, and I posit we would get a MUCH bigger bang for our fundraising buck getting an established, proven coach.

Source

That's a dated article. The Stony Brook coach is now the Rutgers coach and my guess is that his replacement (as assistant from Ohio State) probably isn't making as much. Same thing for Brad Underwood's replacement at Stephen Austin. When a mid major has a head coach who has success in the post season they typically try to keep him by extending and giving raises. That's why a school like Iona pays their head coach $500K. Keatts salary to start wasn't what UNCW is paying him now. It's what JMU did with Kenny Brooks and then they couldn't compete with an ACC offer and Kenny left so rather than throwing money at another coach they promoted the assistant and paid him commensurate with the mid major salary for a first year head coach.

How much more did Matt Brady make than Rowe- $20- $30K per year- did that make you feel better about the MBB program knowing that JMU paid Brady $300K +? Keep in mind that Brady was their coach for 8 years made an NCAA tournament and was a head coach before JMU. It would be great if JMU paid more ($500K or so) but they currently don't and the attendance/arena has something to do with it. Who says you can't do both? Build a new arena and then pay a coach a higher salary if they are deserving? You can probably justify paying a head coach more after you have allocated a large amount of money to a new facility that you want to make sure is full. Do you think established coaches if/when JMU needs to make a hire again will appreciate the fact that JMU has a new arena? I do.