I think my reasons for disliking him are pretty reasonable.
1- He was a defensive coach that couldn't coach his position. I don't make that comment without the supporting comments from Houston and his staff. Many times it was said how little the defensive players truly knew about playing defense. "Gap integrity" wasn't being taught, and if it was they didn't know what it was.
2- He was burning bridges in recruiting circles. He was giving offers to players and pulling them. There was an article (the RTD?) that expressed this and JMU was getting a bad reputation among HS coaches. Imagine what may have happened in a few more years.
3- Attitude to those outside his circle/sore loser. We all didn't care for our beat writer, but that doesn't mean that you belittle the guy. He screwed up by interviewing players without permission (not cool) and Withers ran him over publicly for it. When your spouse goes on public media after leaving JMU, it was a lack of class and not only made her look bad, but him as well.
Many of you seem to have forgotten his post game conferences after a loss. Instead of taking the loss like a man, he acted like a child.

There is no doubt Withers did some great things for us. He was a guy that gave JMU a shot in the arm and brought excitement back to the program. But you can only hold on to that for so long before the results prove otherwise. I don't just dislike him for what he did, but what he might have done to this program if he had stayed longer. Yes, we will never know (thank god), but there were too many red flags to suggest this program would have been hurting.
He left at the perfect time for him. His stock was high and he struck. I don't blame him for that.

(01-12-2017 08:07 AM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  Withers does not have favorable things to say about the administration at JMU; that is something that I wish could be changed.

His opinion would hold more weight if he had won a playoff game, let alone a national championship.

(01-12-2017 11:08 AM)CarRamrod Wrote:  Withers brought in some great recruiting classes. Mike Houston came into a program that had the athletes to win a National Championship. Mike Houston got the most out of those athletes and Withers wasn't able to in two years. Withers help set the table for this Championship no matter how much you may dislike him.

Following that same logic, Mickey Matthews helped set up this championship too. It was his senior class he recruited predominantly.

I don't believe MM or EW would've gotten past the quarterfinals this year with this team.

(01-12-2017 11:44 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 11:08 AM)CarRamrod Wrote:  Withers brought in some great recruiting classes. Mike Houston came into a program that had the athletes to win a National Championship. Mike Houston got the most out of those athletes and Withers wasn't able to in two years. Withers help set the table for this Championship no matter how much you may dislike him.

BDK- Where are your recruiting stats? I know you have presented them (can't find them now) but less than half the starters are EW recruits right?

Just look at the game notes and that will tell you.

Or on here:
http://csnbbs.com/thread-801535-post-138...id13880953

I don't care for EW but he did do things for the program that are undeniable. He pumped some life into the flash and style of the program that was not there with MM. Call it "Juice" or say it was the "Dudes" but he did create a renewed energy and culture.

Otherwise, put it to bed. He's gone. We won a NC. Tired of seeing his name.

(01-12-2017 01:11 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 11:44 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 11:08 AM)CarRamrod Wrote:  Withers brought in some great recruiting classes. Mike Houston came into a program that had the athletes to win a National Championship. Mike Houston got the most out of those athletes and Withers wasn't able to in two years. Withers help set the table for this Championship no matter how much you may dislike him.

BDK- Where are your recruiting stats? I know you have presented them (can't find them now) but less than half the starters are EW recruits right?

Just look at the game notes and that will tell you.

Or on here:
http://csnbbs.com/thread-801535-post-138...id13880953

It amazing how you can come off as an @$$ while helping. Truly takes talent. Game notes wont tell me because I don't memorize every single recruiting class and even if I did (or looked those up as well), it would not tell me which coach initiated the connection and which coach the player committed too.

(01-12-2017 01:19 PM)Dukes1825 Wrote:  I don't care for EW but he did do things for the program that are undeniable. He pumped some life into the flash and style of the program that was not there with MM. Call it "Juice" or say it was the "Dudes" but he did create a renewed energy and culture.

Otherwise, put it to bed. He's gone. We won a NC. Tired of seeing his name.

He did that for one side of the ball. He sure as hell didn't pump anything into the defense. He did the opposite. He sucked the 'juice' right out of it. And he didn't put any 'juice' into special teams either..

Soft Houston reminded me some of JMU last year. High powered finesse offense (until they ran into JMU) with a Charmin soft, swiss cheese, poorly coached defense, and poor special teams..

(01-12-2017 10:54 AM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  I heard he was at the game Sat. I saw some of his staff there.

Were they running the hot dog stand? Or shagging balls in the end zone under construction?

(01-12-2017 01:51 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 10:54 AM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  I heard he was at the game Sat. I saw some of his staff there.

Were they running the hot dog stand? Or shagging balls in the end zone under construction?

Probably taking notes on how defense should actually be played.

Dukes1825 Wrote:Otherwise, put it to bed. He's gone. We won a NC. Tired of seeing his name.

This +1000.

I'm proud to say, and it can easily be verified, that I was the first to point out that there were major flaws in Withers. Less than one week into his hiring. That is all.

(01-12-2017 01:51 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 10:54 AM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  I heard he was at the game Sat. I saw some of his staff there.

Were they running the hot dog stand? Or shagging balls in the end zone under construction?

why would they go to the game? I didn't see any social media congratulating the Dukes... prob cuz withers was blasted on twitter last time he congratulated them haha.

(01-12-2017 02:35 PM)BSKB 24 Wrote:  I'm proud to say, and it can easily be verified, that I was the first to point out that there were major flaws in Withers. Less than one week into his hiring. That is all.

You may have said something a week into his hiring, but I noticed and was concerned prior to his name even being mentioned as a candidate. The moment someone pointed out that we would not necessarily be seeking the best candidate but rather the best candidate who could put JMU on track to becoming a more diverse university raised my eyebrow. At that point all EW had to do was convince JA that he was right for the job. We all know our president couldn't differentiate the job of a punter versus that of the kicker.

(01-12-2017 07:15 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 07:04 AM)atljmualum Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 03:11 AM)Jmubarkers Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 11:48 PM)bulldogg Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 11:30 PM)olddawg Wrote:  In fairness to his non coaching contributions, he did modernize our program. Alpha Dogs, use of social media and I believe he ushered in the Video Coordinator position as well.

Points taken. However, Withers would NEVER have brought a national championship to JMU in 2017. NEVER!

Never as in we will never know...let it go dude.
Withers did a lot for JMU, just let it go.

As in did a lot to turn our defense into the laughing stock of football.

In all seriousness, he brought some good energy to the program, improved our offensive system, and brought in some good recruits and transfers, but it's baffling to me how bad our defense was under his leadership with all the talent we had. That and the first round playoff exits against Liberty and Colgate....

It wasn't baffling when you take a closer look at the youth and inexperience Withers brought in as Assistant Coaches, and how he treated MM's recruits. For example, I recall that during his first season Withers buried Gage Steele on the depth chart. Withers, and Withers alone, was responsible for turning a potentially stout D into a complete and total mess...one which Mike Houston recognized as a major problem primarily because it had begun to create a divided locker room of O vs. D. Had Withers stayed, that division alone would have blown up this season and would have kept the team from realizing it's true potential.

If you guys can believe this, I agree 100% with my friend Longhorn.

I think it's ignorant to say that youth=bad in terms of coaching. Tripp Weaver is young and our CBs were great this season. Same thing with the receivers and Dudzik. Our youngest coaches were all on offense under EW and the offense wasn't the problem.

(01-12-2017 01:31 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 01:11 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 11:44 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 11:08 AM)CarRamrod Wrote:  Withers brought in some great recruiting classes. Mike Houston came into a program that had the athletes to win a National Championship. Mike Houston got the most out of those athletes and Withers wasn't able to in two years. Withers help set the table for this Championship no matter how much you may dislike him.

BDK- Where are your recruiting stats? I know you have presented them (can't find them now) but less than half the starters are EW recruits right?

Just look at the game notes and that will tell you.

Or on here:
http://csnbbs.com/thread-801535-post-138...id13880953

It amazing how you can come off as an @$$ while helping. Truly takes talent. Game notes wont tell me because I don't memorize every single recruiting class and even if I did (or looked those up as well), it would not tell me which coach initiated the connection and which coach the player committed too.

Game notes will tell you, and you don't need to memorize a single recruit class. Game notes 2 deep tell you what class year they are (Fr/rFr/So/rSo/Jr/rJr/Sr/rSr). For the ones that signed out of HS (most)
4th-5th year signed under MM.
2nd-3rd year signed under Withers.
1st year signed under Houston.
The transfers you have to look up when they came in if you don't remember, but there's only 5 of the listed starters (YSU) who didn't come straight out of HS. Pretty simple and quick.

(01-12-2017 02:41 PM)jmu-fan-1981 Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 01:51 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 10:54 AM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  I heard he was at the game Sat. I saw some of his staff there.

Were they running the hot dog stand? Or shagging balls in the end zone under construction?

why would they go to the game? I didn't see any social media congratulating the Dukes... prob cuz withers was blasted on twitter last time he congratulated them haha.

Stretch posted on Twitter

(01-13-2017 01:07 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 01:31 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 01:11 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 11:44 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 11:08 AM)CarRamrod Wrote:  Withers brought in some great recruiting classes. Mike Houston came into a program that had the athletes to win a National Championship. Mike Houston got the most out of those athletes and Withers wasn't able to in two years. Withers help set the table for this Championship no matter how much you may dislike him.

BDK- Where are your recruiting stats? I know you have presented them (can't find them now) but less than half the starters are EW recruits right?

Just look at the game notes and that will tell you.

Or on here:
http://csnbbs.com/thread-801535-post-138...id13880953

It amazing how you can come off as an @$$ while helping. Truly takes talent. Game notes wont tell me because I don't memorize every single recruiting class and even if I did (or looked those up as well), it would not tell me which coach initiated the connection and which coach the player committed too.

Game notes will tell you, and you don't need to memorize a single recruit class. Game notes 2 deep tell you what class year they are (Fr/rFr/So/rSo/Jr/rJr/Sr/rSr). For the ones that signed out of HS (most)
4th-5th year signed under MM.
2nd-3rd year signed under Withers.
1st year signed under Houston.
The transfers you have to look up when they came in if you don't remember, but there's only 5 of the listed starters (YSU) who didn't come straight out of HS. Pretty simple and quick.

Most of the first year's were initially recruited by Withers and Houston was able to keep virtually all of that class. Early on he travelled and met with the "moms" and they felt assured that he would take care of their sons.

(01-13-2017 01:07 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  Game notes will tell you, and you don't need to memorize a single recruit class. Game notes 2 deep tell you what class year they are (Fr/rFr/So/rSo/Jr/rJr/Sr/rSr). For the ones that signed out of HS (most)
4th-5th year signed under MM.
2nd-3rd year signed under Withers.
1st year signed under Houston.
The transfers you have to look up when they came in if you don't remember, but there's only 5 of the listed starters (YSU) who didn't come straight out of HS. Pretty simple and quick.

Ah, looks like we disagree on who gets credit for the athletes.

My take: If a player was identified/offered by EW in fall of 2014, committed in 2015 and then stayed committed from the time EW left 1/6/16 until Houston was hired 1/18/16 and NSD on 2/3/16, I would consider that player a EW recruit. I can understand how people would take the hardline that anybody who signed on 2/3/16 was a Houston recruit but I don't think that tells the whole story. The player was identified, offered, had recruiting visits, attended summer camps, etc. all under a different coach. I'm not fully up on recruiting rules but I'm going to guess with MH hired on the 18th, he only had 10 or so days where he was allowed to visit/talk to recruits. I know NCAA rules state they can only visit a recruit a handful amount of times, I'm not sure if it starts over for new coaching staffs, but EW could have already used the maximum visits for a player meaning that Houston couldn't even shake the recruits hand before NSD (in addition to only having 10 days).

Basically, in the post you referenced, you give Cole Johnson to Houston. I see him as a EW recruit as LH pointed out in the quoted post. NOW this disregards the fact that EW didn't coach C. Johnson at all, so if he turns into a stud for JMU was it due to EW finding him and convincing him to come to JMU or is it because of the coaching under Houston.

There were some positives with Withers. From what I can see he ran a clean program and made sure players maintained their grades. Speeding up the game and getting more plays was a plus for a more talented team. I enjoyed watching the points scored. He brought in some outstanding QBs and did bring in some decent recruits at various. He was also a good neighbor to roadwarrior.

On the negative side, I don't get his selection of assistants. Graduate assistants as OC and DC and key positions? Of course you get occasional diamond in the roughs, but overall these are guys with no experience and most will likely not pan out. When you look at the assistants MH has versus what EW had it's not hard to see why this team is so much better? The question is - did EW not want experienced coaches because he saw them as a threat, or did they not want to coach for him? The one thing that drove me nutz about him was his arrogance. Nothing was ever the fault of him or his coaches - it was the players. I'm one of those it's everyone, and if anything it's more the coaches in my opinion. EW talks about how he changed the culture at JMU. HM talks about how he had to change if from what EW had. MH has talked all year about the division in the locker room and how soft the team played. I think he's the one that changed the culture. Both EW and MH are both defensive minded coached. But all of MH's defenses have been very good, and all of EW's defensives have been very bad.


And when it came to big games - EW would get outcoached time after time.

Yeah that's where I judge ew the most, big games. We defined big games as a team that made the playoffs that season. There were six big Fcs games in his two years and he had a 1-5 record. If we include fbs games, he's 1-1.
He couldn't win the big game to save his life.