Which is worse and why?

I'm not sure if i would classify either as "bad" per say, you've gotta do what you've gotta do.

Leaving less than a month before signing day (not even to mention taking as many recruits he did) is undoubtedly more damaging.

(01-11-2017 08:29 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  Which is worse and why?

I think you need to separate them all out and then there is a hands down leader. To me, it's not even close and that honor goes to Kill. In reality, Kill left the team BEFORE the MACC. Correct me if I am wrong, but he may not have come back to DeKalb with the team. He went directly to Chicago to finalize the deal with Minnesota. The team had just laid a major egg and right or wrong, I'm pretty sure that Kill spent a lot of time that week on his personal agenda with Minnesota and was not as focused on the game in front of him as he should have been.

Doeren left after the championship game and was probably asked to by NC State, to get right to work. I would guess that he would have loved to stay and coach his team in the Orange Bowl.

PJ probably didn't have the chance until after the Cotton Bowl. And honestly, losing a starting QB and top ten pick WR are a lot more damaging than losing a handful of recruits.

With the way PJ did it, I think it will have a much longer term effect on the teams. Depleting westerns class like that and basically no time left is going to hurt them the next 3-4 seasons IMO.

(01-11-2017 09:00 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 08:29 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  Which is worse and why?

I think you need to separate them all out and then there is a hands down leader. To me, it's not even close and that honor goes to Kill. In reality, Kill left the team BEFORE the MACC. Correct me if I am wrong, but he may not have come back to DeKalb with the team. He went directly to Chicago to finalize the deal with Minnesota. The team had just laid a major egg and right or wrong, I'm pretty sure that Kill spent a lot of time that week on his personal agenda with Minnesota and was not as focused on the game in front of him as he should have been.

Doeren left after the championship game and was probably asked to by NC State, to get right to work. I would guess that he would have loved to stay and coach his team in the Orange Bowl.

PJ probably didn't have the chance until after the Cotton Bowl. And honestly, losing a starting QB and top ten pick WR are a lot more damaging than losing a handful of recruits.

It came out that Doeren was going to NC State literally when I was driving back from Detroit the next day. if you don't think he had interviewed for the State job before the MAC Championship and was on his way out, you're delusional.

Only difference between how Kill and DD left is DD won the game.

(01-11-2017 09:00 PM)HuskiePride12 Wrote:  With the way PJ did it, I think it will have a much longer term effect on the teams. Depleting westerns class like that and basically no time left is going to hurt them the next 3-4 seasons IMO.

Not having a star QB at this level is most damaging....see NIU.

(01-11-2017 09:02 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:00 PM)HuskiePride12 Wrote:  With the way PJ did it, I think it will have a much longer term effect on the teams. Depleting westerns class like that and basically no time left is going to hurt them the next 3-4 seasons IMO.

Not having a star QB at this level is most damaging....see NIU.

I mean whoever takes the western job will basically have two weeks to even have a chance at some of the type of recruits they were after. Most are going to sign Feb 1st. Not easy at all.

(01-11-2017 09:01 PM)7 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:00 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 08:29 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  Which is worse and why?

I think you need to separate them all out and then there is a hands down leader. To me, it's not even close and that honor goes to Kill. In reality, Kill left the team BEFORE the MACC. Correct me if I am wrong, but he may not have come back to DeKalb with the team. He went directly to Chicago to finalize the deal with Minnesota. The team had just laid a major egg and right or wrong, I'm pretty sure that Kill spent a lot of time that week on his personal agenda with Minnesota and was not as focused on the game in front of him as he should have been.

Doeren left after the championship game and was probably asked to by NC State, to get right to work. I would guess that he would have loved to stay and coach his team in the Orange Bowl.

PJ probably didn't have the chance until after the Cotton Bowl. And honestly, losing a starting QB and top ten pick WR are a lot more damaging than losing a handful of recruits.

It came out that Doeren was going to NC State literally when I was driving back from Detroit the next day. if you don't think he had interviewed for the State job before the MAC Championship and was on his way out, you're delusional.

Only difference between how Kill and DD left is DD won the game.

And....it was DD's 2nd MACC win.

Leaving in January is ok. Taking the recruits with you is another story.

NIU has a better shot in Orange Bowl if Doeren was coach.

(01-11-2017 10:09 PM)Springfield Soxfan Wrote:  NIU has a better shot in Orange Bowl if Doeren was coach.

The Orange Bowl was a brilliantly coached game by Carey. He outcoached Jimbo.

(01-11-2017 10:09 PM)Springfield Soxfan Wrote:  NIU has a better shot in Orange Bowl if Doeren was coach.

It would have been really interesting


Going back to the original poll question, its hard to throw Kill in there because he never won at NIU, so its kind of apples and oranges to throw his name in there.

There's no good way to quit a job on short notice. Someone's always going to take it personal. Losing coaches always hurts your recruiting.

(01-11-2017 09:01 PM)7 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:00 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 08:29 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  Which is worse and why?

I think you need to separate them all out and then there is a hands down leader. To me, it's not even close and that honor goes to Kill. In reality, Kill left the team BEFORE the MACC. Correct me if I am wrong, but he may not have come back to DeKalb with the team. He went directly to Chicago to finalize the deal with Minnesota. The team had just laid a major egg and right or wrong, I'm pretty sure that Kill spent a lot of time that week on his personal agenda with Minnesota and was not as focused on the game in front of him as he should have been.

Doeren left after the championship game and was probably asked to by NC State, to get right to work. I would guess that he would have loved to stay and coach his team in the Orange Bowl.

PJ probably didn't have the chance until after the Cotton Bowl. And honestly, losing a starting QB and top ten pick WR are a lot more damaging than losing a handful of recruits.

It came out that Doeren was going to NC State literally when I was driving back from Detroit the next day. if you don't think he had interviewed for the State job before the MAC Championship and was on his way out, you're delusional.

Only difference between how Kill and DD left is DD won the game.

My point was that Kill deserted the team before the game---like he checked out--that team was unprepared for that game. I do understand that Doeren had stuff in place, just my feeling that he would have stayed for the Orange Bowl if NC State would have let him.

January is the worst. Some kids were a week or two from enrolling and now have to wait and see what they want to do. Look at the Cal opening. That is a real nightmare. That job is still open three weeks from signing day. Neither one is a good thing but the more time you have as the new coach to get the recruits in place the better.

(01-12-2017 08:05 AM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:01 PM)7 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:00 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 08:29 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  Which is worse and why?

I think you need to separate them all out and then there is a hands down leader. To me, it's not even close and that honor goes to Kill. In reality, Kill left the team BEFORE the MACC. Correct me if I am wrong, but he may not have come back to DeKalb with the team. He went directly to Chicago to finalize the deal with Minnesota. The team had just laid a major egg and right or wrong, I'm pretty sure that Kill spent a lot of time that week on his personal agenda with Minnesota and was not as focused on the game in front of him as he should have been.

Doeren left after the championship game and was probably asked to by NC State, to get right to work. I would guess that he would have loved to stay and coach his team in the Orange Bowl.

PJ probably didn't have the chance until after the Cotton Bowl. And honestly, losing a starting QB and top ten pick WR are a lot more damaging than losing a handful of recruits.

It came out that Doeren was going to NC State literally when I was driving back from Detroit the next day. if you don't think he had interviewed for the State job before the MAC Championship and was on his way out, you're delusional.

Only difference between how Kill and DD left is DD won the game.

My point was that Kill deserted the team before the game---like he checked out--that team was unprepared for that game. I do understand that Doeren had stuff in place, just my feeling that he would have stayed for the Orange Bowl if NC State would have let him.

Yup.

Team showed it. There was an eerie feeling in Detroit. Close source said they all thought he was going to IU actually. But they knew he was done. After game straight to meet w/UM (not at banquet?) if I remember.

(01-12-2017 10:24 AM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 08:05 AM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:01 PM)7 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:00 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 08:29 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  Which is worse and why?

I think you need to separate them all out and then there is a hands down leader. To me, it's not even close and that honor goes to Kill. In reality, Kill left the team BEFORE the MACC. Correct me if I am wrong, but he may not have come back to DeKalb with the team. He went directly to Chicago to finalize the deal with Minnesota. The team had just laid a major egg and right or wrong, I'm pretty sure that Kill spent a lot of time that week on his personal agenda with Minnesota and was not as focused on the game in front of him as he should have been.

Doeren left after the championship game and was probably asked to by NC State, to get right to work. I would guess that he would have loved to stay and coach his team in the Orange Bowl.

PJ probably didn't have the chance until after the Cotton Bowl. And honestly, losing a starting QB and top ten pick WR are a lot more damaging than losing a handful of recruits.

It came out that Doeren was going to NC State literally when I was driving back from Detroit the next day. if you don't think he had interviewed for the State job before the MAC Championship and was on his way out, you're delusional.

Only difference between how Kill and DD left is DD won the game.

My point was that Kill deserted the team before the game---like he checked out--that team was unprepared for that game. I do understand that Doeren had stuff in place, just my feeling that he would have stayed for the Orange Bowl if NC State would have let him.

Yup.

Team showed it. There was an eerie feeling in Detroit. Close source said they all thought he was going to IU actually. But they knew he was done. After game straight to meet w/UM (not at banquet?) if I remember.

I was originally of this opinion, as the team certainly was flat and Miami's gameplan thoroughly outfoxed us that night. However, after having talked to several members of that team, some of whom I'm pretty close with, they insist that it was just a bad game and there was absolutely nothing wrong with the preparation that week.

If we swat a ball down on 4th and 19 instead of three guys going for the INT, we're MAC Champions in 2010 and nobody is half as bitter as we all were that weekend.

Mostly, it just looked bad. Kill had the job by Sunday, but wanted to tell the team at the banquet. Unfortunately, news got out a few hours before and that made things really tense, especially between him and the media. Some of the same players I mentioned were pretty pissed that he was leaving, others figured you have to do what you have to do. Ultimately, after the dust settled, virtually all of those guys would still crawl over broken glass for Jerry Kill, who didn't recruit them to come to Dekalb (Joe Novak did). That says something right there.

I know there are few people on this board who are absolutely convinced Kill was distracted leading up to the MACC, and nothing I say will convince them otherwise. All I'm saying is I used to think that, too. But given what I've heard in the years since from people who were on that field, I don't think that was the case anymore. We just played like crap that night. It happens.

(01-12-2017 11:29 AM)cawoo22 Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 10:24 AM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 08:05 AM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:01 PM)7 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 09:00 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  I think you need to separate them all out and then there is a hands down leader. To me, it's not even close and that honor goes to Kill. In reality, Kill left the team BEFORE the MACC. Correct me if I am wrong, but he may not have come back to DeKalb with the team. He went directly to Chicago to finalize the deal with Minnesota. The team had just laid a major egg and right or wrong, I'm pretty sure that Kill spent a lot of time that week on his personal agenda with Minnesota and was not as focused on the game in front of him as he should have been.

Doeren left after the championship game and was probably asked to by NC State, to get right to work. I would guess that he would have loved to stay and coach his team in the Orange Bowl.

PJ probably didn't have the chance until after the Cotton Bowl. And honestly, losing a starting QB and top ten pick WR are a lot more damaging than losing a handful of recruits.

It came out that Doeren was going to NC State literally when I was driving back from Detroit the next day. if you don't think he had interviewed for the State job before the MAC Championship and was on his way out, you're delusional.

Only difference between how Kill and DD left is DD won the game.

My point was that Kill deserted the team before the game---like he checked out--that team was unprepared for that game. I do understand that Doeren had stuff in place, just my feeling that he would have stayed for the Orange Bowl if NC State would have let him.

Yup.

Team showed it. There was an eerie feeling in Detroit. Close source said they all thought he was going to IU actually. But they knew he was done. After game straight to meet w/UM (not at banquet?) if I remember.

I was originally of this opinion, as the team certainly was flat and Miami's gameplan thoroughly outfoxed us that night. However, after having talked to several members of that team, some of whom I'm pretty close with, they insist that it was just a bad game and there was absolutely nothing wrong with the preparation that week.

If we swat a ball down on 4th and 19 instead of three guys going for the INT, we're MAC Champions in 2010 and nobody is half as bitter as we all were that weekend.

Mostly, it just looked bad. Kill had the job by Sunday, but wanted to tell the team at the banquet. Unfortunately, news got out a few hours before and that made things really tense, especially between him and the media. Some of the same players I mentioned were pretty pissed that he was leaving, others figured you have to do what you have to do. Ultimately, after the dust settled, virtually all of those guys would still crawl over broken glass for Jerry Kill, who didn't recruit them to come to Dekalb (Joe Novak did). That says something right there.

I know there are few people on this board who are absolutely convinced Kill was distracted leading up to the MACC, and nothing I say will convince them otherwise. All I'm saying is I used to think that, too. But given what I've heard in the years since from people who were on that field, I don't think that was the case anymore. We just played like crap that night. It happens.

Players may not want to sell their coach down the river, which is good. Kill recruited many of these guys. Also a sense of responsibility. Time changes things, opinions. That said, they knew he was going and that alone is a distraction. Emotions can effect your performance, especially teens/young adults. They said there was just no focus as a whole from the distraction. I was told minutes before the game and there was definite worry.

Whether their opinion changed, I don't know.

(01-11-2017 10:35 PM)7 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 10:09 PM)Springfield Soxfan Wrote:  NIU has a better shot in Orange Bowl if Doeren was coach.

The Orange Bowl was a brilliantly coached game by Carey. He outcoached Jimbo.

Yep, probably top 2 or 3 of Carey's career, and his next game @ Iowa is up there as well.

Fake punt, onside kick, not sure what else Doeren would have done, schemes were fine, they simple beat the crap out of us on the front lines.

(01-12-2017 03:21 PM)17Huskies Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 10:35 PM)7 Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 10:09 PM)Springfield Soxfan Wrote:  NIU has a better shot in Orange Bowl if Doeren was coach.

The Orange Bowl was a brilliantly coached game by Carey. He outcoached Jimbo.

Yep, probably top 2 or 3 of Carey's career, and his next game @ Iowa is up there as well.

Fake punt, onside kick, not sure what else Doeren would have done, schemes were fine, they simple beat the crap out of us on the front lines.

I thought the line did a decent job. The only thing I think Carey could have done better was use lynch as a decoy In the run game. FSU was locked in on him running, and also locked in on kicking his ass because of the misquoted "on their knees" thing. That was their only motivation in that game. But he's your best runner and you hope he breaks one. The real issue was Lynch's passing. He couldn't hit water from a boat that night. Moore ran free all game and Jordan kept missing. That would have changed everything and opened up the run.