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Flashketball Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Venting -
(01-12-2017 09:37 AM)delflash Wrote:  I believe KSU basketball has been hurt by the extensive roster turnover from year to year. It's difficult to develop cohesion when your players continually change. Of course, KSU is not alone in seeing players come and go at the drop of a hat. It's the new trend. But it just seems our turnover has been exceptionally high. This does not facilitate fan interest either.

Dare I offer my opinion.....this is a recruiting issue. There is turnover everywhere, but one benefit of a mid-major program is NBA level talent doesn't come around often. That threat of a player leaving early doesn't exist. This means you can recruit players out of high school and have them for four, sometimes even five years. All that experience is priceless. Just ask any of those guys from the early 2000s... We're not taking advantage of this. We're loading the roster with JUCO players and transfers. I'm not saying they aren't good players, I'm just saying they only have a year or two at best to learn and gel, then boom they're gone. Then you're right back to inexperienced square one again. In my opinion, that's not the best way to build a Mid American Conference basketball team.
01-12-2017 12:21 PM
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ksu315 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Venting -
thanks for stopping by Dave! your insight is always appreciated.

Lets be honest though after 16 games we aren't likely to be able to put together 4 monster games in 6 days and win the MAC tourney so lets commit to developing the fresh and soph. 16-20 mins per game is a must for avery, j walker, a walker, Peterson, pippen, and de la rosa. that could be a hell of a core in 2 years. but at the current rate in 2 years I worry if maybe only 1 or 2 of them will still be left.
01-12-2017 02:03 PM
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bopol Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Venting -
(01-12-2017 12:09 PM)burden Wrote:  
(01-12-2017 08:06 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  Burden said, "I continue to think that Senderoff did fix many of the problems with the club when he took over and the team would have blown up if he didn't take the helm." Interesting. I never heard that before. I wish he would explain. All I know is that Coach Senderoff has not done as well as the previous four coaches, particularly against MAC opponents and especially their main rival, Akron. Maybe most important, they just don't look good most of the time. Recruiting? Coaching? I just don't know.

That was bopol who said that. I too would be interested in what he meant.

This is my opinion, but it seemed like the players were getting in more trouble off the court under Geno Ford. The players, as a group, seemed to be declining as citizens. I felt it was inevitable that the team would fall apart. Given how poorly that Geno did at Bradley with all of the resources he didn't have at Kent (remember, that's why he left according to him) and the fact that the citizenship of the players immediately improved under Coach Senderoff, I think I was right.
01-12-2017 02:46 PM
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bopol Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Venting -
(01-12-2017 12:04 PM)DavidCarducci Wrote:  I have to say, I agree quite a bit with Danny. I hope none of you take this as an insult, but those of us who work so closely with these student-athletes and coaches do get a bit oversensitive about criticism of them. We see the hard work behind the scenes and we know and care about them as people. So, when several fans were heckling our own players during and after the game on Tuesday, I was really upset. I know one player in particular who was extremely hurt a week earlier by some really rude and obnoxious things that were shouted at him. We have a good fan base at Kent State and this kind of behavior is not the norm. Having spent a great deal of time in Europe, there's part of me that loves the way fans are there. Actually, they call themselves supporters rather than fans. They have a different relationship with their teams. They may get frustrated, but they are constantly supportive and do what they can to help the team and create a home-field/court advantage during a season, even in a down year. They get excited for gameday and the chance to cheer their team no matter what, through thick and thin.
There are some really good young men on this men's basketball team who could benefit from that kind of relationship with the fan base. I enjoy being around these players. Support from fans can help them get through a slump or a stretch when they are struggling with confidence. That positive gameday environment also helps in recruiting. Kids want to play at a place where fans are into the game – even an ugly game – and do what they can to pull the team out of a bad stretch.
Anyway, sorry about getting up on the soapbox. I'm a Kent State employee, but I've spent my entire life here, going to games with my father starting at around age 3. I care about the men's basketball program, but I also care about the people who make up the program, and I'd love to see the fans to have more of a symbiotic relationship with an understanding that they really can make a difference in a very positive way.

Wow. That is such a better way of making the point as opposed to insulting everyone that posts on this forum.
01-12-2017 03:02 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Venting -
Thanks, Bopol. Now that you mentioned it, I DO remember lots of problems back then. David Carducci mentioned Rod Sherman. He is one of my all-time favorites. To me, he exemplified everything we could ever want in a player. Singletary was a heck of a player. The reason I never came out and flatly said that we need to move on from Senderoff is that I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. I know they haven't been winning as much, and haven't looked good lots of times, but I would never blame a coach unless I had ALL the facts and information. Akron has had the gift of stability. They have a good coach, but not a great one, who for many reasons isn't going anywhere. I agree with Carducci in that players should never be jeered unless in a rare circumstance where a player is obviously not even trying, and I've never seen that. Also, I did see Darryl Straughter, who had been mentioned before, play again and now I'm sold. He would be a fine recruit if Kent State is a school he would consider.
01-12-2017 03:47 PM
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GFlash68 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Venting -
I guess that we have to thank Danny for starting this thread as it has promoted some really sincere opinions in regards to our program. Another great benefit is that we have the pleasure of hearing from Mr Carducci again. I truly mean that as he is always interesting. Dave, I am not sure that you ever really overestimated the talent of a player, as it could be that for whatever reason, the potential was there but just did not develop.

I, too, am very frustrated with this team. The thing that bothers me is that we seem to have players who have good athletic skills but the skills stop with the individual. That creates a situation that can always be defended. We are getting doubled and tripled with the ball and we think we can dribble out of the situation. This is a prescription for high turnovers. I have been spoiled by watching some replays of our 2002 team. That team moved the ball so well that they were difficult to double and trap. The movement without the ball was so good that their best shots came from receiving a pass. Sure helps the assist stat. Even though we are not a good shooting team, I could see us being pretty good with better team play and less individual play. I just get impressed with the art of team play on each end. I guess this can be classified as VENTING.
01-12-2017 04:30 PM
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OLNWFLSH Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Venting -
(01-12-2017 12:04 PM)DavidCarducci Wrote:  
(01-12-2017 10:36 AM)OLNWFLSH Wrote:  
(01-12-2017 09:37 AM)delflash Wrote:  I believe KSU basketball has been hurt by the extensive roster turnover from year to year. It's difficult to develop cohesion when your players continually change. Of course, KSU is not alone in seeing players come and go at the drop of a hat. It's the new trend. But it just seems our turnover has been exceptionally high. This does not facilitate fan interest either.

I agree - I really think this team would/could be more consistent if we still had a guard like Kellon Thomas - that impacted us much more than I would have suspected. But then I always fall into those preseason traps about the level of talent that guys like Deberry will bring. I liked reading David Carducci posts - but he had a tendency to overestimate/exaggerate incoming talent. I see Hustle belt still has us ranked 4th in the MAC- I feel that's too high as road wins will be tough to come by. Let hope they start at WMU. The good thing about this venting thread is that it shows there are still some passionate fans out there!

Thanks OLNWFLSH, I'm glad you liked my work. And I agree with you, I missed quite a bit in my evaluation of new talent.
I can think of so many players over the years who looked great in workouts and in the lead-up to the season. Just last year, I was convinced Marvin Jones would be a major impact player. He was athletic, had excellent range on his jumper. He dominated in some practices. For whatever reason, it didn't work out.
Maybe the most physically gifted player I've seen at KSU was Rashad Woods. Again, he didn't quite fit. I'm still convinced Tyree Evans could have been special here, but that injured finger really impacted his game, his ability to score and create his own shot.
Sometimes I was right, and maybe even had an impact in how some young players ended up being used and ultimately getting an early chance to develop. A late night up talking with Jim Christian and his staff ended with the decision to put freshman Chris Singletary and Rod Sherman into the starting lineup. By no means am I saying I convinced them to do that. But I was a big proponent of that decision. I've always liked it when high-ceiling freshman get a chance to start early in their careers, make some mistakes and grow along with veterans. I loved that potential with Pippen and Peterson at the start of the year and hope to see their opportunities continue to grow as the season goes on. I believe they could be special players.
But I agree with you. My intention wasn't to exaggerate, but I definitely overestimated. I tend be an optimist and that may have been a negative in my career as a reporter. It may have also been a negative for some players and coaches in that it led to fan expectations being higher than they should have been. Fortunately for all of you, I'm not a coach and I don't recruit! I can only hurt the program by creating a few dumb graphics, tweets, and radio commentary!
I have to say, I agree quite a bit with Danny. I hope none of you take this as an insult, but those of us who work so closely with these student-athletes and coaches do get a bit oversensitive about criticism of them. We see the hard work behind the scenes and we know and care about them as people. So, when several fans were heckling our own players during and after the game on Tuesday, I was really upset. I know one player in particular who was extremely hurt a week earlier by some really rude and obnoxious things that were shouted at him. We have a good fan base at Kent State and this kind of behavior is not the norm. Having spent a great deal of time in Europe, there's part of me that loves the way fans are there. Actually, they call themselves supporters rather than fans. They have a different relationship with their teams. They may get frustrated, but they are constantly supportive and do what they can to help the team and create a home-field/court advantage during a season, even in a down year. They get excited for gameday and the chance to cheer their team no matter what, through thick and thin.
There are some really good young men on this men's basketball team who could benefit from that kind of relationship with the fan base. I enjoy being around these players. Support from fans can help them get through a slump or a stretch when they are struggling with confidence. That positive game day environment also helps in recruiting. Kids want to play at a place where fans are into the game – even an ugly game – and do what they can to pull the team out of a bad stretch.
Anyway, sorry about getting up on the soapbox. I'm a Kent State employee, but I've spent my entire life here, going to games with my father starting at around age 3. I care about the men's basketball program, but I also care about the people who make up the program, and I'd love to see the fans to have more of a symbiotic relationship with an understanding that they really can make a difference in a very positive way.
Dave Thanks for coming on the board again and making some important points. I always enjoyed your RC stories and appreciate all you do for KSU athletics. You are correct we have some good kids - the interaction with the crowd during the national anthem earlier in the season is a great example. I also frown on the heckling - I have a friend who is a HS BB coach and his wife can't go to games as she doesn't want to hear all the complaining about the coach. I have taught at D III schools and even at that level there are pressures on coaches and kids who aren't getting scholarships - when they get injured their folks pay for the MRI etc... I also hope you weren't offended by my point about player evaluation. Some of the kids you mentioned in the past may have just been in the wrong system - it seems we have had some guys go on to success at smaller schools. I have learned to temper expectations - but I sure love getting a chance to spend a few days in Cleveland during the MACC! It just seems like every year we have great talent coming in and it doesn't mesh - probably to be expected when so many new faces are out there. We all loved the 2002 team but most of those guys payed together long enough to know each other pretty darn well. Dave keep being an optimist! I am probably more of a glass half empty guy - but got to say I lived to see the elite 8 run and I can tell you there were times in the dimly lit past when I would wonder if we would ever beat OU!

BTW - Julian Edelmann is now an author of a kids book - note his KSU shirt is inside out

http://www.nh1.com/news/new-england-patr...ing-high-/
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 06:44 PM by OLNWFLSH.)
01-12-2017 05:56 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Venting -
(01-12-2017 05:56 PM)OLNWFLSH Wrote:  http://www.nh1.com/news/new-england-patr...ing-high-/

Lol, I about lost it when the reporter said, "Julian Edelman is all about getting that nut..."

Anyways, in regards to Dave's post...good post, I liked a lot of what you said. I'm not sure I can get behind the be more like European fans point. They're kind of known for rioting at sporting events. But that aside I agreed with most of what you said. Although throwing chairs at Akron fans would be pretty fun.

As for the heckling of players...personal insults should be left where they belong...and that's directed solely at the officials of course.

In all seriousness though I definitely agree it's inexcusable for home fans to heckle their own players. I'd like to think the players would have thick enough skin to ignore it, but if I was a player I probably wouldn't, I'd probably go Ron Artest on someone. So who am I to judge. I imagine a lot of this is probably magnified by the last two games being mid-week Christmas break games with next to no one in attendance. I sit pretty close to where you and Ty sit and my girlfriend and I were remarking how easily we could hear the players and coaches talking these last couple games. Not endorsing anything that was said of course, just saying hopefully most of it will drown out with bigger crowds.

Back to that Edelman video, ironically he had a quote in there that is very applicable to this topic...
“There’s going to be naysayers and people who say you’re not good enough. And what you got to do is ignore that noise because anytime you’re thinking about what others are thinking, it’s taking away time from what you could be doing to improve yourself and your craft,”
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 07:05 PM by anti-zip.)
01-12-2017 07:04 PM
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fallsdog Offline
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RE: Venting -
01-12-2017 07:16 PM
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OLNWFLSH Offline
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RE: Venting -
(01-12-2017 07:16 PM)fallsdog Wrote:  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_6mKMV0d2cs

+1
01-12-2017 08:55 PM
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