(01-20-2017 06:46 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The one problem you guys are facing is that the P5 are squeezing any tv money out of the G5 schools to a point where their contracts are worthless and some may have to drop to FCS. The only ones that are not in trouble are BYU, the MWC, AAC, Army and UMass since the P5 are wanted to play those schools more often. The ADs and school Presidents of the other three most have to come up with a new plan for the future to stay at the FBS level, bite the bullet and be in a conference where you can save money without going broke. I could see a new conference with Troy, South Alabama, North Alabama, Alabama State and Jacksonville State could play each other every year, fans filling the seats to watch their team by traveling in state to watch the games and so forth.

You nailed it.

(01-20-2017 06:46 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The one problem you guys are facing is that the P5 are squeezing any tv money out of the G5 schools to a point where their contracts are worthless and some may have to drop to FCS. The only ones that are not in trouble are BYU, the MWC, AAC, Army and UMass since the P5 are wanted to play those schools more often. The ADs and school Presidents of the other three most have to come up with a new plan for the future to stay at the FBS level, bite the bullet and be in a conference where you can save money without going broke. I could see a new conference with Troy, South Alabama, North Alabama, Alabama State and Jacksonville State could play each other every year, fans filling the seats to watch their team by traveling in state to watch the games and so forth.

Nobody is dropping down

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(01-20-2017 07:18 PM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 06:16 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 05:58 PM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 05:50 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 05:48 PM)p23570 Wrote:  I think the reality is aside from Rice all these schools are somewhat similar. Same with resources. I certainly understand not wanting to be in a conference with schools who are vastly different but to be honest I just don't see that much difference when it boils down to it. Like I said if anybody has a right to be snooty it might be Rice. They are world class academically and a former p-5 who once hosted a super bowl and now plays in front of high school crowds.

NMSU And UTEP are good examples.
Are they really different enough academically to not be able to share a conference?
Regionally it makes perfect.
Culturally are they really that different that they simply can not share a conference?

Why don't you look at the Carnegie Ranking and research dollars for every school listed...

The only school I am aware of with a vastly different academics is Rice.

It's not like every other conference has members with the same mission. Compare Duke and Louisville. Compare Baylor and Texas. Nebraska and Northwestern. They all have vastly different missions and academic endowments but somehow someway they still manage to share a conference.

And you are telling me that NMSU and UTEP are just too different to ever be able to do that? That seems ridiculous to be honest with you.

You make it out like CUSA is a poor mans ivy league and that Sun Belt is nothing but community colleges which is simply not the case IMO.

So you compared the private to the flagship public in every conference? Well that is one way to make your point. You do realize the irony is that yure a fan of a school from a conference that did not expand because nobody could agree on any schools they liked (cultural fit, academic fit, geography).LOL

Why don't you look at the Carnegie Ranking and research dollars for every school listed...

Thant's not true at all. Big 12 wouldn't expand because none of the schools brought enough value. Academically there were good choices. Regionally there were good choices. And as a cultural fit they were not much different than current members. And besides that the Big 12 has nothing to do with this discussion, just you making the most predictable response on this site.

You keep avoiding admitting the fact that NMSU and UTEP are certainly not so different that they could never share a conference. Nor are the other CUSA and Sun Belt schools aside from Rice. I've shown that there are plenty of other conferences with members much more different than what we are discussing here.

At this point it's just one group of midgets telling the other group of midgets they are not tall enough.

I do hope they can work this out someday and avoid students flying cross country and instead put them on short bus rides for some games. Much better for fans as well.

Really? How many state public flagship land grant universities were up for consideration?

You keep bringing up UTEP and NMSU. Congrats. They are next to each other and similar universities.i am talking about UAB and Coastal Carolina.

I am talking about the dissimilar universities that may share geography. The Carnegie r1 vs m3 schools. The top 150 in research dollars vs not ranked. If you're blowing up conferences one can assume you intend to stay in the new lineup for years if not decades. If it's in a university's power they are going to be in a conference with like schools if they have a choice. Who you're stuck with today may not be who you choose to be with tomorrow.

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(01-20-2017 11:37 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 06:46 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The one problem you guys are facing is that the P5 are squeezing any tv money out of the G5 schools to a point where their contracts are worthless and some may have to drop to FCS. The only ones that are not in trouble are BYU, the MWC, AAC, Army and UMass since the P5 are wanted to play those schools more often. The ADs and school Presidents of the other three most have to come up with a new plan for the future to stay at the FBS level, bite the bullet and be in a conference where you can save money without going broke. I could see a new conference with Troy, South Alabama, North Alabama, Alabama State and Jacksonville State could play each other every year, fans filling the seats to watch their team by traveling in state to watch the games and so forth.

Nobody is dropping down

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The p-5 is going to spend these schools to death instead of letting them go to FCS. It's like trying to compete in Sprint Cup with a Xfinity series budget. You can keep coming to the races but you will never even be on the lead lap when the checkered flag is waved.

Schools with AD budget's in the 20's trying to compete with schools who have budgets over 100 million.

(01-20-2017 02:57 PM)p23570 Wrote:  Never said you did. I figured giving those kids something to play for might mean something. Right now they play for nothing beyond a conference championship and crappy bowl win. I don't think anybody in the p-5 is afraid of g-5 bowl games. They just dont' want to play g-5 schools for the same reasons g-5 schools don't want to play g-5 schools in bowls. That's the funny/ironic part of all this. G-5 schools want to play p-5 schools in bowls but dont' want to play g-5 schools. P-5 schools dont' want to play g-5 school and would prefer to play other p-5 schools. So the g-5 is too good to play other g-5's but the p-5 is fine playing other p-5's.

I can see it at the conference championship level where a G5 champ doesn't want to square up against another G5 in a bowl game. A CFP bowl or another major bowl game against a P5 opponent. A reward for winning an FBS conference championship.

But after that I care more about destinations than opponent.

San Diego, Las Vegas, New Orleans, Mobile, Miami ect....

(01-20-2017 07:19 PM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 06:46 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The one problem you guys are facing is that the P5 are squeezing any tv money out of the G5 schools to a point where their contracts are worthless and some may have to drop to FCS. The only ones that are not in trouble are BYU, the MWC, AAC, Army and UMass since the P5 are wanted to play those schools more often. The ADs and school Presidents of the other three most have to come up with a new plan for the future to stay at the FBS level, bite the bullet and be in a conference where you can save money without going broke. I could see a new conference with Troy, South Alabama, North Alabama, Alabama State and Jacksonville State could play each other every year, fans filling the seats to watch their team by traveling in state to watch the games and so forth.

You nailed it.

If you call describing the MAC upgrade from $1.4m per season to around $8m per season, with in excess of $10m in new CFP money on top, as "squeezing any tv money out of the G5 schools to a point where their contracts are worthless and some may have to drop to the FCS" nailing it.

I submit that most would call that missing by a mile.

(01-20-2017 11:37 PM)panama Wrote:  Nobody is dropping down

Well, Idaho is, but that is about being dropped as a member by a Go5 conference, not about members of Go5 conferences dropping down, so it's still substantially correct.

(01-21-2017 12:24 AM)p23570 Wrote:  The p-5 is going to spend these schools to death instead of letting them go to FCS.

This is more on point. Give the Go5 conferences enough of a slice of the pie to continue to survive and compete and continue to allow the average P5 winning percentage to be above 50%.

(01-21-2017 12:24 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 11:37 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 06:46 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The one problem you guys are facing is that the P5 are squeezing any tv money out of the G5 schools to a point where their contracts are worthless and some may have to drop to FCS. The only ones that are not in trouble are BYU, the MWC, AAC, Army and UMass since the P5 are wanted to play those schools more often. The ADs and school Presidents of the other three most have to come up with a new plan for the future to stay at the FBS level, bite the bullet and be in a conference where you can save money without going broke. I could see a new conference with Troy, South Alabama, North Alabama, Alabama State and Jacksonville State could play each other every year, fans filling the seats to watch their team by traveling in state to watch the games and so forth.

Nobody is dropping down

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The p-5 is going to spend these schools to death instead of letting them go to FCS. It's like trying to compete in Sprint Cup with a Xfinity series budget. You can keep coming to the races but you will never even be on the lead lap when the checkered flag is waved.

Schools with AD budget's in the 20's trying to compete with schools who have budgets over 100 million.

FBS should have always required a school to receive an invite from an existing FBS conference to move up.

If that was the case quite a few few schools would be playing at the top level today and more resources to go around for everyone.

(01-20-2017 07:18 PM)p23570 Wrote:  Thant's not true at all. Big 12 wouldn't expand because none of the schools brought enough value. Academically there were good choices. Regionally there were good choices. And as a cultural fit they were not much different than current members. And besides that the Big 12 has nothing to do with this discussion, just you making the most predictable response on this site.

You keep avoiding admitting the fact that NMSU and UTEP are certainly not so different that they could never share a conference. Nor are the other CUSA and Sun Belt schools aside from Rice. I've shown that there are plenty of other conferences with members much more different than what we are discussing here.

At this point it's just one group of midgets telling the other group of midgets they are not tall enough.

I do hope they can work this out someday and avoid students flying cross country and instead put them on short bus rides for some games. Much better for fans as well.

You aren't looking at the big picture.

There is more to running an athletic program than conference membership.

If being in CUSA while NMSU is in the WAC makes UTEP fans feel superior, that's just a bonus for UTEP.

The big picture is UTEP has 12 slots to fill on the football schedule, CUSA fills 8 of those. Hoops plays 29ish and CUSA fills 17 or 19 (conference tournament counts as one), on down the line through each sport.

If NMSU joins CUSA, UTEP replaces a distant conference opponent with NMSU BUT that opens up a non-conference game (or games depending on the sport) that they have to fill and it won't be someone who can hop on a bus and be there in an hour so UTEP's cost to replace that game rises while at the same time putting NMSU in the same marketing niche (which isn't that big state lines matter) and the same recruiting niche which does matter because of the proximity.

Arkansas State doesn't care if we swap La.Tech for ULM or are in a conference with one or both. Either way AState can bus and there is no overlap in fan marketing and little overlap in core recruiting territory. Close enough to bus is great. Close enough to collide a lot in recruiting or worse in marketing to fans is bad.

NCAA minimum average attendance requirement for FBS shsould be 20,000. That would solve a lot of realignment issues.

AAC
Tulsa - 19,234

CUSA
North Texas - 19,878
Western Kentucky - 17,705
Middle Tennessee - 17,243
Charlotte - 14,192
Florida International - 16,789
Florida Atlantic - 10,073

MAC
Eastern Michigan - 17,677
Buffalo - 17,493
Central Michigan - 17,408
Miami (Ohio) - 17,110
Bowling Green - 15,140
Northern Illinois - 11,019
Kent State - 10,898
Akron - 10,337
Ball State - 7,789

Mtn West
Utah State - 19,136
New Mexico - 18,708
Nevada - 18,501
UNLV - 18,389
San Jose State - 15,419

Sunbelt
Texas State - 18,120
South Alabama - 16,250
Georgia State - 15,103
Louisiana-Monroe - 12,610

Kicked out of the Sunbelt
Idaho - 11,190 (Going FCS)
New Mexico State - 9,545

Massachusetts - 14,510