Mods: This is not a troll thread

I want to discuss if any team could be kicked out of the AAC for performance or lack there of

Is it fair to kick a team out?
How long of a leash should a team get before being kicked out?
What are the bare minimums a team need to bring to the table in terms of performance in football and men's basketball (the two sports that count)

I bring this up because looking at Tulane, they are just not getting it down. They have been really bad in football and men's hoops. How much is enough? Does having that market offset such bad performance?

For those of you acquainted with why Temple was kicked out of the Big East, please add some color to the discussion...what was the last straw, etc. Does it apply to Tulane now?

Discuss

Tulane has replaced both their Football and Basketball staffs in the past year, so it looks as though they are trying.

I think in order to get kicked out you need to fire a decent football coach and then let a sucky basketball coach hang around for 5 or 6 seasons too long.

On a more serious note, the Temple situation was a little different because they were not an all sports member, and they refused to invest in the one program the Big East needed them to invest in.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/03/sports...-east.html

Quote:Big East Commissioner Michael Tranghese said Temple consistently failed to meet criteria unanimously adopted by the members in 1996, like attendance and nonconference scheduling.

Any conference member consistently failing to contribute to the financial bottom line should be considered for replacement when a more attractive alternative is available.

(01-04-2017 07:40 AM)Chappy Wrote:  Tulane has replaced both their Football and Basketball staffs in the past year, so it looks as though they are trying.

I think in order to get kicked out you need to fire a decent football coach and then let a sucky basketball coach hang around for 5 or 6 seasons too long.

I would agree on Tulane: they have replaced coaches/staffs in the two big sports so to me, that shows they are trying at this point in time.

I think that we need to start over selecting schools.

If the AAC kicks anyone out they will have to compensate them financially. The conference does not have enough money in the coffers to afford that.

(01-04-2017 07:41 AM)Chappy Wrote:  On a more serious note, the Temple situation was a little different because they were not an all sports member, and they refused to invest in the one program the Big East needed them to invest in.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/03/sports...-east.html

Quote:Big East Commissioner Michael Tranghese said Temple consistently failed to meet criteria unanimously adopted by the members in 1996, like attendance and nonconference scheduling.

Has the American adopted a criteria for nonconference scheduling in either sport. Seems like it would be something critical to the long term success of the league. I mean constantly scheduling cupcakes in various sports is a joke. I also think the league should mandate no FCS games. Play two G5 and two P5 assuming you can make it work. I think most teams have some natural regional rivalries with programs in each category.

(01-04-2017 07:38 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Mods: This is not a troll thread

I want to discuss if any team could be kicked out of the AAC for performance or lack there of

Is it fair to kick a team out?
How long of a leash should a team get before being kicked out?
What are the bare minimums a team need to bring to the table in terms of performance in football and men's basketball (the two sports that count)

I bring this up because looking at Tulane, they are just not getting it down. They have been really bad in football and men's hoops. How much is enough? Does having that market offset such bad performance?

For those of you acquainted with why Temple was kicked out of the Big East, please add some color to the discussion...what was the last straw, etc. Does it apply to Tulane now?

Discuss

Tulane isnt succeeding but that are trying ..temple wasnt trying when they were kicked out

tulane invested tons of money into a new stadium and facilities...they fired a semi sucessful football coach for them and hired willie fritz which was arguably the best hire of that offseasoon...
his salary is higher than 95% of non-aac g5 schools

theyve bee pushing in basketball too, the got there first ever 4 str bball commit ever 2 cycles ago.

im 100% fine with tulane

at this point, id rather keep tulane than get someone like niu who wins but lacks mentatilty ... its about the mentality rather than the result.. nius ad is talking like they are second class citizens and fine with it, they arent trying to upgrade, their mentatity is how do we survive

the same way i see smu football, smu footballl cant find success (yet) but its not for lack of trying, they arguably have some of the best g5 facilities as is, and investing 100mil more over the next 10 years. they pay the highest in the g5, and recruit the 5star like crazy despite not getting them (do land a few 4stars, aton for how bad theyve been), they have a recruiting helicopter... and they get mad when the lose to p5, and dont want to be second fiddle to anyone

the one team that doesnt fit the critiria is tulsa, tulsa has by far the lowest ceiling of any team in the AAC, financially, recruiting and fanbase potential...they were added because they always find a way to win in almost every sport ..but if tulsa ever went on a 4-5year losing drought people would start questioning their profile...they drew less than 20k on a great team, and the only aac not to be paying its coach over a mil (and he is successful), with some of the worst aac facilities (no offense).

but that was if we were desperate to kick someone out...tulsa/tulane will be our wake/purdue they arent going anywhere

Cross our fingers the Tulane project works because that is all we can do. New Orleans is a good market and cheap flights.

Seeing how my school is sucking on all fronts right now, I sure as hell hope not...

I searched for, and failed to find any conference bylaws or rules that actually address the issue. I can find them for many other conferences, but the American Conference Bylaws are apparently super secret... so I can't intelligently speak to the question of if it CAN happen.

Should it happen?

In extreme circumstances, I can understand it. Not only failing athletically, but also not taking steps to improve. Or consistently getting caught cheating, allowing horrible people to play or otherwise embarrassing the conference, or the school failing to meet NCAA academic standards repeatedly (making it essentially a JUCO).

But as a general rule, its bad for business.

I am fine with Tulane. OUTSTANDING academics. Great destination city. Beautiful new stadium. Great bridge between Texas and Florida.

Frankly, and I don't mean this as a slam at Tulane, we don't want everyone 'good' at the same time. As we all know well, when everyone is good you get parity and beating up on each other, and no one gets ranked or gets the access bowl. It's not fair, but the conference with 1-2 'stars' per year gets more attention.

We need to stop making suggestions or decisions about our conference based on who was 'good' last year. That goes for additions as well... We are building a conference to last, not a conference of the most recent flavors of the month... So to answer the question, it's WAY too soon to even broach the subject of kicking anyone out... This is what, our fourth full year as a conference??

We should have some definitive criteria for attendance and incentive to reach such. Say a 30,000 minimum in football and 5,000 in basketball. Maybe a $10.00 per seat, per week attendance penalty paid into the conference for falling below said numbers.

Full members don't get kicked out of conferences. Full stop.

Single-sport affiliates like Navy get kicked out--see UMAss, Idaho, NMSU, Temple.

Temple is a little closer to a member being kicked out, since they were a full member of the Big East Football Conference, which used to be a separate entity, but there was a reorganization bringing the BEFC and the old BEC under a single set of bylaws, which put Temple on the outside and made them vulnerable.

(01-04-2017 09:05 AM)PT_american Wrote:  

(01-04-2017 07:41 AM)Chappy Wrote:  On a more serious note, the Temple situation was a little different because they were not an all sports member, and they refused to invest in the one program the Big East needed them to invest in.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/03/sports...-east.html

Quote:Big East Commissioner Michael Tranghese said Temple consistently failed to meet criteria unanimously adopted by the members in 1996, like attendance and nonconference scheduling.

Has the American adopted a criteria for nonconference scheduling in either sport. Seems like it would be something critical to the long term success of the league. I mean constantly scheduling cupcakes in various sports is a joke. I also think the league should mandate no FCS games. Play to G5 and two P5 assuming you can make it work. I think most teams have some natural regional rivalries with programs in each category.

Ha! why not tell the truth... The Big East wanted Uconn in for Football, Temple preformed better then full member Rutgers in all criteria, yet Temple was target for replacement, publicly shammed, and everyone just blames Temple. Could Temple have done more... sure but they were not welcome. Villanova would not accept Temple for all sports and Uconn wanted to upgrade football... Its very clear what happened. Had little to do with Attendance or Investment and everything to do with keeping Uconn and Villanova happy.

(01-04-2017 09:56 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Full members don't get kicked out of conferences. Full stop.

Single-sport affiliates like Navy get kicked out--see UMAss, Idaho, NMSU, Temple.

Temple is a little closer to a member being kicked out, since they were a full member of the Big East Football Conference, which used to be a separate entity, but there was a reorganization bringing the BEFC and the old BEC under a single set of bylaws, which put Temple on the outside and made them vulnerable.

you can't retroactively make rules because you see a commonality

you can kick anyone one for whatever reason if you have the votes...
temple was kicked out for lack of investment fot from som vulnerability

idaho/nmsu were temps from the start

umass was given an ultimatum

in my opinion being a is affiliate member isnt the string that ties them together, but simply a symptom..if your an affiliate something is keeping you from being a full member (distance, politics etc) and those vulnerabilities are why they are removed..its not because they weren't full members

(01-04-2017 10:01 AM)victory engineer Wrote:  

(01-04-2017 09:05 AM)PT_american Wrote:  

(01-04-2017 07:41 AM)Chappy Wrote:  On a more serious note, the Temple situation was a little different because they were not an all sports member, and they refused to invest in the one program the Big East needed them to invest in.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/03/sports...-east.html

Quote:Big East Commissioner Michael Tranghese said Temple consistently failed to meet criteria unanimously adopted by the members in 1996, like attendance and nonconference scheduling.

Has the American adopted a criteria for nonconference scheduling in either sport. Seems like it would be something critical to the long term success of the league. I mean constantly scheduling cupcakes in various sports is a joke. I also think the league should mandate no FCS games. Play to G5 and two P5 assuming you can make it work. I think most teams have some natural regional rivalries with programs in each category.

Ha! why not tell the truth... The Bi East wanted Uconn in for Football, Temple preformed better then full member Rutgers in all criteria, yet Temple was target for replacement, publicly shammed, and everyone just blames Temple. Could they have done more... sure but they were not welcome.

the big east set criteria by unanimous vote on criteria that had to be met, temple never hit those criteria

temple was at a certain points doing 5k attendance

ps rutgers was doing 6k better in attendance

and another major criteria was scheduling ...rutgers was playing texas/cal/ND and temples OOC at that time was almost exclusively mac teams..

it didn't matter if you were doing 4wins a season and rutgers was doing 3 in the bigger picture (especially when rutgers had harder schedules )

you are the one who needs to tell the truth

(01-04-2017 09:56 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Full members don't get kicked out of conferences. Full stop.

Single-sport affiliates like Navy get kicked out--see UMAss, Idaho, NMSU, Temple.

Temple is a little closer to a member being kicked out, since they were a full member of the Big East Football Conference, which used to be a separate entity, but there was a reorganization bringing the BEFC and the old BEC under a single set of bylaws, which put Temple on the outside and made them vulnerable.

^^^
THIS!

Temple wasn't so much "kicked out," but when the BE-Football Conference ceased to exist and the BE became an "All Sports" conference in 2004, Temple simply wasn't extended an invitation. Temple was a member of the A10...which didn't sponsor FB. They only were members of the BE-Football Conference, which ceased to exist.

Marshall getting expelled from the old MAC in the 1970's is the only example I know of a school getting involuntarily expelled from a conference. We have myriad examples of schools deciding that they couldn't maintain a budget to stay in a conference. And we have plenty of examples of a school deciding that a conference didn't match their mission or was holding them back, and so leaving on their own initiative.

That being said, I am quite sure there is some mechanism for severance. There has to be. Nobody joins something without the basic mechanism of how one party or the other can end that relationship. And I am sure there is legal precedent on how that can happen...with the Courts if nothing else.

(01-04-2017 09:00 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  If the AAC kicks anyone out they will have to compensate them financially. The conference does not have enough money in the coffers to afford that.

There are coffers. I thought it was like more of a cigar box