It can be somewhat of a challenge to cobble together an OOC schedule out west so why doesn't the Big West go to 12 schools and a 22-game schedule in basketball?

I would add UC San Diego, CSU Bakersfield, and Chaminade.

As far as the A-Sun, bringing in North Alabma is a start, but I would add one more school to get to 10 and an 18-game conference schedule. Who would school #10 be?

The Big West could also look at New Mexico St and Sacramento St.

A league can not move up more than one DII team at a time without limiting the conference schedule. See the Southland when it added Incarnate Word and Abilene Christian. DI teams can't play more than 3 DII teams in basketball, and their round robin schedule made some team forfeit or cancel games, as a transitioning DI still counts as DII the first year.

Sac St is obligated to play in the BSC and it doesn't yet have a gym that can seat more than 1000. It's been working on a new arena since it went DI 25 years ago, but nothing has happened. Portland St is building one at long last.

Suspect Hawaii would not like if Chaminade was added. The WCC can add them if it wants.

(01-01-2017 11:15 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  It can be somewhat of a challenge to cobble together an OOC schedule out west so why doesn't the Big West go to 12 schools and a 22-game schedule in basketball?

I would add UC San Diego, CSU Bakersfield, and Chaminade.

Is it really that bad for Big West teams to put together an OOC schedule?

Pac-12, MWC, WCC, WAC, Big Sky. 5 other conferences out there. Admittedly, they're unlikely to get home games from the Pac-12 schools, but they should be able to get home games from most schools in the other 4.

Various Summit (Denver, Dakota schools), Southland (Texas schools), and C-USA schools (Texas schools) aren't that far away (relatively speaking) either. Although admittedly it's a plane trip vs. a bus ride.

Out of curiosity, I picked 3 Big West schools, looked at their OOC schedules:

UC-Riverside: 1 Non-D1 (home), 2 WCC (both away), 2 Pac-12 (both away), 1 Summit (at Denver), 2 WAC (both home), 2 Big Sky (1 home/1 away), 1 MWC (away).

Cal Poly: 2 Non-D1 (both home), 1 WCC (away), 3 Pac-12 (all away), 3 game tournament at Northern Illinois, 1 C-USA (home), 1 Southland (home), 1 MWC (at Fresno State), 1 WAC (at Grand Canyon), 1 game all the way at Princeton.

CS-Northridge: 2 Non-D1 (both home), 2 Pac-12 (both away), 3 games in the Wooden Legacy, 1 MAC (home), 1 MEAC (home), 1 Big Sky (home), 1 WCC (home), 1 MWC (at Boise State), 1 game all the way at St. John's.

1-2 Non-D1 home games isn't unusual for teams from conference's like the Big West. UC-Riverside never ventured west of the Rockies. Cal Poly ventured twice: once for the NIU tournament and once to play Princeton. Cal St-Northridge probably got paid well for their 1 trip west of the Rockies to NYC.

Chaminade doesn't have the resources or inclination to move up to D-I. It seems like CSUB would fit the conference profile but the current Big West UCs and CSUs don't appear to view it as a peer in terms of size or academics. UCSD on the other hand is a huge school with world-class academics in a big market and is most likely to be added to the Big West as its 10th member.

I could see NMSU also being attractive to the conference if it came with an acceptable travel partner, but Grand Canyon as a private for-profit school doesn't fit and Northern Arizona isn't likely to leave the Big Sky.

I wonder if A-Sun/Big South can rest for a little bit. Yeah, NJIT isn't a long-term solution, and Monmouth is as good as gone the moment CAAF wants them (or NEC "gets it" and ups the scholarship limit), but, there's still room for growth in GA and FL that will keep both of those conferences around for a bit. Stetson and Jacksonville always have the option of moving in for added football stability, as well as UNF and FGCU having an open door if it wants to sponsor the sport.

WAC's the obvious one, being the absolute bottom of the pile, and looking at Chicago State thinking there's no future to this conference with schools that can't stay in business, or Grand Canyon, which will teeter between for- and non-profit operations at the expense of its own enrollment issues. You can't help but look at what might happen within its membership footprint and see the issues of MVC losing Wichita, and the trickle-down effect it will have on UMKC, the Big West and Sun Belt with NMSU. The Big West with CSUB...maybe even Seattle?

There's still Patriot looking for football programs. That might translate into an all-sports invite, depending on who they can attract. It might just be a football-only thing with Pioneer losing membership and the football coaching and athletic leadership change at Villanova (let's face it, Villanova's biggest FBS proponent was its own top-class coach, who retired), but the CAAF losing Villanova poses some questions in that conference and its future, and might just be enough for certain clusters to break off and start anew elsewhere (again, since the whole northeast there seems to be a fragile and contentious region for FCS operations since the 90's). We known the Patriot will always want W&M...could it get Richmond (who's already an associate member)?

Believe the Summit is most endangered. Why wouldnt IUPUI and IPFW prefer the Atlantic Sun to the Summit? They are basketball schools, not football, and what Midwestern BB recruit wouldnt want a couple of guaranteed trips in the winter to Florida, rather than the Dakotas? Those schools arent getting a Horizon bid, but could get an ASUN one. After all, the ASUN took UNK before it skipped on to the Horizon and used to have Belmont. IPFW and IUPUI don't get helped much by plain state schools, and W ILL isn't too much of a draw except maybe football. Some here believe UND is Slummit bound, but I contend that our President is playing political games with that league and the MVFC. The Slummit is not a destination for existing DI teams and would sully our reputation.

(01-02-2017 01:21 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  There's still Patriot looking for football programs. That might translate into an all-sports invite, depending on who they can attract. It might just be a football-only thing with Pioneer losing membership and the football coaching and athletic leadership change at Villanova (let's face it, Villanova's biggest FBS proponent was its own top-class coach, who retired), but the CAAF losing Villanova poses some questions in that conference and its future, and might just be enough for certain clusters to break off and start anew elsewhere (again, since the whole northeast there seems to be a fragile and contentious region for FCS operations since the 90's). We known the Patriot will always want W&M...could it get Richmond (who's already an associate member)?

Don't think Richmond has any interest in Patriot League football, and they'd never leave one of the best mid-major basketball conferences in the country to move to a perennial one-bid conference. Doing so would ensure losing at least one game a year against their crosstown rival in VCU.

As long as W&M and JMU are still playing CAA football, I highly doubt you'll see a move from Richmond. I'm obviously a little biased, but I think the Virginia schools in the CAA stick together as long as JMU keeps their football program there.

(01-02-2017 05:13 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Chaminade doesn't have the resources or inclination to move up to D-I. It seems like CSUB would fit the conference profile but the current Big West UCs and CSUs don't appear to view it as a peer in terms of size or academics. UCSD on the other hand is a huge school with world-class academics in a big market and is most likely to be added to the Big West as its 10th member.

I could see NMSU also being attractive to the conference if it came with an acceptable travel partner, but Grand Canyon as a private for-profit school doesn't fit and Northern Arizona isn't likely to leave the Big Sky.

I just can't see the BW stopping at 10. The Cal State - UC imbalance, plus the spectre of adding yet another SoCal member, and the fact that further expansion reduces Hawaii's travel subs, says 12 is the way to go.

Another AAC expansion thread?

(01-02-2017 01:21 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  WAC's the obvious one, being the absolute bottom of the pile, and looking at Chicago State thinking there's no future to this conference with schools that can't stay in business, or Grand Canyon, which will teeter between for- and non-profit operations at the expense of its own enrollment issues. You can't help but look at what might happen within its membership footprint and see the issues of MVC losing Wichita, and the trickle-down effect it will have on UMKC, the Big West and Sun Belt with NMSU. The Big West with CSUB...maybe even Seattle?

The WAC is at the bottom of the pile but with only 8 members nobody is forced to play that many games in conference.

Still I think it would make some sense to for the WAC to bring in a couple more schools like UC San Diego and Oklahoma City which can thrive in Division 1.

There is a progression in D1.

Move up to the top level and its one of the biggest steps you can make for alumni engagement.

Start a football program and a marching band. Build a marching band and homecoming atmosphere.

Once homecoming hits 20,000 the school is viable to be selected for a FBS conference.

That is the story of Georgia Southern, NAIA in the 60's all the way to FBS.

For this reason we should look more at attendance at the DII level or FCS level to determine who's ready for an upgrade.

And of course very few, if any have the academic chops for a P5 conference so SBC or MWC is about as good as it's going to get.

Merrimack, Southern New Hampshire, Bentley, Indiana-PA and LIU-Post all could move up to D1. Last I saw? LIU-Post have more students enrolled than LIU-Brooklyn who is at D1. The two schools could merge, and bring the football team up to D1 under the LIU-Brooklyn's banner.
That is 5. Bellarmine also seems to want to go D1. Who would be interested in a school in Louisville, KY?
Columbus State, Augusta, Valdosta, West Georgia, West Florida all could go D1.

A-Sun/Big South football could look like this.

North:
Monmouth
LIU-Post/Brooklyn
Merrimack
Bentley
Indiana, PA.

Central:
Campbell
Liberty
Gardner-Webb
Presbyterian
High Point if they add football

South:
Kennesaw State
North Alabama
Charleston Southern
Stetson
Jacksonville

You have 12.

Bellarmine, North Florida, Florida Gulf Coast, High Point and Columbus State all are talking about adding football.

What is the basketball attendance at those schools from the prior year David?

That will be more telling.

I'm starting to get the feeling that the WAC is a dead conference walking. Since the mass exodus they've only convinced one D2 school to move up. Aside from a bunch of disenfranchised former Indy Great West teams (and the UMKC move that I still don't understand) no one is lining up to join. Are they even trying to expand their membership?

Are they trying to hold out and become a conference of convenience for Big Sky schools looking for a second FCS autobid?

I know it's a hard conference to try and recruit members to but their commissioner is demonstrating a real lack of leadership by failing to line up new members as their current membership are waiting for better opportunities to materialize.

The RMAC gets to #16 with Dixie St
http://rmacsports.org/news/2016/10/25/GE...60218.aspx

(01-02-2017 11:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I'm starting to get the feeling that the WAC is a dead conference walking. Since the mass exodus they've only convinced one D2 school to move up. Aside from a bunch of disenfranchised former Indy Great West teams (and the UMKC move that I still don't understand) no one is lining up to join. Are they even trying to expand their membership?

Are they trying to hold out and become a conference of convenience for Big Sky schools looking for a second FCS autobid?

I know it's a hard conference to try and recruit members to but their commissioner is demonstrating a real lack of leadership by failing to line up new members as their current membership are waiting for better opportunities to materialize.

The WAC lives as an ollie conference with many of the old members, though. If it lives today, maybe it's because some feel, both within the WAC and outside it, that there's a(nother) storm brewing in the MWC, BSC, and Summit that might give WAC part of its stature back?

Remember, it was like 5-6 years ago when the MWC was almost gutted and considered a CUSA equal, and Summit was nearly done for, too. Did things really and permanently improve and heal, or is this just a brief extension until chaos resumes?

(01-02-2017 11:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I'm starting to get the feeling that the WAC is a dead conference walking. Since the mass exodus they've only convinced one D2 school to move up. Aside from a bunch of disenfranchised former Indy Great West teams (and the UMKC move that I still don't understand) no one is lining up to join. Are they even trying to expand their membership?

Are they trying to hold out and become a conference of convenience for Big Sky schools looking for a second FCS autobid?

I know it's a hard conference to try and recruit members to but their commissioner is demonstrating a real lack of leadership by failing to line up new members as their current membership are waiting for better opportunities to materialize.

There were some reports that several D2 schools including Grand Canyon contacted the WAC to join. It would be hard to call up all those D2 schools all at once since there were still several FBS schools in the mix.

(01-02-2017 09:17 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Merrimack, Southern New Hampshire, Bentley, Indiana-PA and LIU-Post all could move up to D1. Last I saw? LIU-Post have more students enrolled than LIU-Brooklyn who is at D1. The two schools could merge, and bring the football team up to D1 under the LIU-Brooklyn's banner.
That is 5. Bellarmine also seems to want to go D1. Who would be interested in a school in Louisville, KY?
Columbus State, Augusta, Valdosta, West Georgia, West Florida all could go D1.

A-Sun/Big South football could look like this.

North:
Monmouth
LIU-Post/Brooklyn
Merrimack
Bentley
Indiana, PA.

Central:
Campbell
Liberty
Gardner-Webb
Presbyterian
High Point if they add football

South:
Kennesaw State
North Alabama
Charleston Southern
Stetson
Jacksonville

You have 12.

Bellarmine, North Florida, Florida Gulf Coast, High Point and Columbus State all are talking about adding football.

Would LIU-Post be interested in merging with LIU-Brooklyn? If they aren't interested in merging, they won't do it, even though it may seem like a good idea.

North Florida, Florida Gulf Coast, and maybe High Point I can see adding football. It makes no sense for Columbus State to add football though when you've got Auburn within driving distance. It would be like Michigan and EMU, although EMU has finally started showing some signs of life, it's easier for EMU to do it than Columbus State because EMU has had football longer. Same thing goes for Bellarmine, IMO. You're in Louisville, KY. You got the hometown ACC Cards and if you don't like the Cards, UK's not too far away. UNF, FGCU, and HPU (depending on where they are located) make some sense because there is some distance between them and the FBS heavyweights.

(01-02-2017 08:41 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(01-02-2017 01:21 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  WAC's the obvious one, being the absolute bottom of the pile, and looking at Chicago State thinking there's no future to this conference with schools that can't stay in business, or Grand Canyon, which will teeter between for- and non-profit operations at the expense of its own enrollment issues. You can't help but look at what might happen within its membership footprint and see the issues of MVC losing Wichita, and the trickle-down effect it will have on UMKC, the Big West and Sun Belt with NMSU. The Big West with CSUB...maybe even Seattle?

The WAC is at the bottom of the pile but with only 8 members nobody is forced to play that many games in conference.

Still I think it would make some sense to for the WAC to bring in a couple more schools like UC San Diego and Oklahoma City which can thrive in Division 1.

The WAC problems is that the viable D2 schools to pull up from play football. UCSD isn't interested in D1 unless its with the Big West so they can travel basically only to LA. OKC is NAIA and can't just jump up to D1.
The WAC has to become a FCS conference to be able to pull from some very good potential schools in the west. That could allow Azusa Pacific to be added to the ranks and the WAC could then pull some southern Big Sky schools as well as add some Lonestar Conference schools down the road like West Texas A&M that will still be in the footprint of a FCS WAC.
Maybe that will happen....could be a wait and see with NMSU to see how long they can go Indy as a FBS team.