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ODU Hoops Offline
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Post: #1
C-USA
Clearly I'm biased towards hoops based on my username, but I support all ODU sports. Not sure fb was worth this basketball conference.

http://pilotonline.com/sports/college/el...aad6e.html
12-30-2016 12:36 PM
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ODUBB35 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: C-USA
The problem is that we are a major contributor to the SUCK. If CUSA is that bad, we should be able to win it.

If we don't get to the NCAA's after next season, it's time to look in a different direction.
12-30-2016 01:10 PM
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TheDancinMonarch Offline
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Post: #3
RE: C-USA
(12-30-2016 01:10 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  The problem is that we are a major contributor to the SUCK. If CUSA is that bad, we should be able to win it.

It is just that bad so what exactly what does that say about us? Nothing good, that's for damn sure.
12-30-2016 01:22 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #4
RE: C-USA
(12-30-2016 12:36 PM)ODU Hoops Wrote:  Clearly I'm biased towards hoops based on my username, but I support all ODU sports. Not sure fb was worth this basketball conference.

http://pilotonline.com/sports/college/el...aad6e.html

He said, the day after ODU lost at home to William and Mary.
12-30-2016 01:24 PM
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paintedblue2 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: C-USA
We have been over this ground at least once before. Being in a CAA w/o VCU or GMU would be little better, if at all for basketball. Being in CUSA vs. CAA regarding basketball is not the problem.
12-30-2016 01:38 PM
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ODUBB35 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: C-USA
(12-30-2016 01:38 PM)paintedblue2 Wrote:  We have been over this ground at least once before. Being in a CAA w/o VCU or GMU would be little better, if at all for basketball. Being in CUSA vs. CAA regarding basketball is not the problem.

Yep. Do we really want to lose to W&M twice?
12-30-2016 02:03 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: C-USA
(12-30-2016 01:10 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  The problem is that we are a major contributor to the SUCK. If CUSA is that bad, we should be able to win it.

If we don't get to the NCAA's after next season, it's time to look in a different direction.

Yup. The CAA w/o VCU and GMU is not any more attractive anyway.
12-30-2016 02:07 PM
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TheDancinMonarch Offline
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Post: #8
RE: C-USA
(12-30-2016 02:07 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-30-2016 01:10 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  The problem is that we are a major contributor to the SUCK. If CUSA is that bad, we should be able to win it.

If we don't get to the NCAA's after next season, it's time to look in a different direction.

Yup. The CAA w/o VCU and GMU is not any more attractive anyway.

The West Coast Conference is Gonzaga and the 9 midgets. Gonzaga goes to the tournament virtually every year as conference champion. Would that be so horrible for us in the CAA as currently manned? I realize that leaves out football but I maintain that the step from C-USA to real FBS football is larger than the step back to the CAA.

But what's done is done and we may as well be happy stuck in terminal mediocrity.
12-30-2016 02:30 PM
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ODU Hoops Offline
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Post: #9
C-USA
(12-30-2016 01:24 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(12-30-2016 12:36 PM)ODU Hoops Wrote:  Clearly I'm biased towards hoops based on my username, but I support all ODU sports. Not sure fb was worth this basketball conference.

http://pilotonline.com/sports/college/el...aad6e.html

He said, the day after ODU lost at home to William and Mary.

You clearly don't have a clue. I'm sure one loss to William and Mary makes us one of the worst teams in this conference. We lost the championship in the last minute last year, took Louisville to the wire this year, and have a few name wins over Richmond and St. John's. Whatever makes you feel good though "he said."
12-30-2016 03:30 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #10
RE: C-USA
The fact that some of us are clinging to LOSING in the championship of a bad conference as the reason we don't suck tells you all you need to know about the state of the program.

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12-30-2016 04:00 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #11
RE: C-USA
(12-30-2016 03:30 PM)ODU Hoops Wrote:  
(12-30-2016 01:24 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(12-30-2016 12:36 PM)ODU Hoops Wrote:  Clearly I'm biased towards hoops based on my username, but I support all ODU sports. Not sure fb was worth this basketball conference.

http://pilotonline.com/sports/college/el...aad6e.html

He said, the day after ODU lost at home to William and Mary.

You clearly don't have a clue. I'm sure one loss to William and Mary makes us one of the worst teams in this conference. We lost the championship in the last minute last year, took Louisville to the wire this year, and have a few name wins over Richmond and St. John's. Whatever makes you feel good though "he said."

OK, let me try and explain this, but bear in mind that apparently I don't have a clue:

When your team loses to a mediocre William and Mary team AT HOME BY DOUBLE DIGITS, the next day is not the optimal time to act all snotty about the conference that team plays in, which oh by the way is also the conference that the Monarchs HAVE NEVER WON.

ODU has two wins against teams with better-than-.500 records and zero against any teams with even the faintest glimmer of NCAA aspirations. They struggled against a JMU team that has lost to nearly everybody by larger margins and were held to a halftime tie against Eastern Mennonite. They had to pull away to beat a Dartmouth team that was winless until two weeks ago. Every quality opponent they played, they lost to. A close loss to Louisville doesn't magically mitigate all that.

The field goal shooting is horrible. The free throw shooting is horrible. This is not an NCAA team, it's not an NIT team, and it might not even be a CBI/CIT/Vegas team if they don't get their **** together in the second half of the season.

But yes, it's CUSA's fault that ODU isn't back to winning 25 games a season and making the NCAAs regularly again.
12-30-2016 04:15 PM
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WMTribe90 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: C-USA
(12-30-2016 02:07 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-30-2016 01:10 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  The problem is that we are a major contributor to the SUCK. If CUSA is that bad, we should be able to win it.

If we don't get to the NCAA's after next season, it's time to look in a different direction.

Yup. The CAA w/o VCU and GMU is not any more attractive anyway.

Really!? At the end of OOC play, the CAA ranks #11 and CUSA ranks #25 in conference RPI. CAA has two mid-major top 25 squads (#3 and #22) and three others receiving votes. Conference USA has no teams ranked in top 25 or even receiving votes! No difference there? The CAA has a few teams in the at-large mix. Conference USA?

No difference between a conference where your closest road game is nearly 500 miles away in another state versus a conference with two in-state conference foes and five others within driving distance (<275 miles)? How many away conference basketball games have you attended since joining CUSA? How many did you attend when ODU was in the CAA?

Its obvious the move to CUSA was a football move. It accomplished the goal of getting ODU football FBS status. Let's not pretend it was a lateral basketball move and that it hasn't diminished your basketball program.

The CAA conference took a step back after GMU, ODU and VCU left. No doubt. But, a lot has changed since those early years following the defections. WM has strung together 3 consecutive 20 win seasons, UNCW has returned to prominence not enjoyed since the Blizzard era, Towson has found considerable success after being a doormat program, NU has the best coach in the league and is consistently strong. New additions Elon and Charleston are coming on strong. Charleston is #22 in the mid-major top 25 and Elon is receiving votes. Hofstra lost in the conference finals last year and are also well-coached. UD appears on the upswing after sacking their coach. Only JMU is struggling among current members. Meanwhile, GMU struggles in the A10 and would be a bottom-half CAA school this year. VCU's move has been successful and I can't argue against their move to the A10. ODU basketball program has been downgraded (talent level and conference). If you don't agree, try explaining losses to the former CAA doormat five time in six tries. Ask yourself if the CAA offered ODU basketball-only membership tomorrow if you'd take it?
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2016 04:19 PM by WMTribe90.)
12-30-2016 04:15 PM
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Post: #13
RE: C-USA
Both .....1 bid leagues ! Period end of story.
12-30-2016 04:31 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #14
RE: C-USA
(12-30-2016 04:15 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  
(12-30-2016 02:07 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-30-2016 01:10 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  The problem is that we are a major contributor to the SUCK. If CUSA is that bad, we should be able to win it.

If we don't get to the NCAA's after next season, it's time to look in a different direction.

Yup. The CAA w/o VCU and GMU is not any more attractive anyway.

Really!? At the end of OOC play, the CAA ranks #11 and CUSA ranks #25 in conference RPI. CAA has two mid-major top 25 squads (#3 and #22) and three others receiving votes. Conference USA has no teams ranked in top 25 or even receiving votes! No difference there? The CAA has a few teams in the at-large mix. Conference USA?

No difference between a conference where your closest road game is nearly 500 miles away in another state versus a conference with two in-state conference foes and five others within driving distance (<275 miles)? How many away conference basketball games have you attended since joining CUSA? How many did you attend when ODU was in the CAA?

Its obvious the move to CUSA was a football move. It accomplished the goal of getting ODU football FBS status. Let's not pretend it was a lateral basketball move and that it hasn't diminished your basketball program.

The CAA conference took a step back after GMU, ODU and VCU left. No doubt. But, a lot has changed since those early years following the defections. WM has strung together 3 consecutive 20 win seasons, UNCW has returned to prominence not enjoyed since the Blizzard era, Towson has found considerable success after being a doormat program, NU has the best coach in the league and is consistently strong. New additions Elon and Charleston are coming on strong. Charleston is #22 in the mid-major top 25 and Elon is receiving votes. Hofstra lost in the conference finals last year and are also well-coached. UD appears on the upswing after sacking their coach. Only JMU is struggling among current members. Meanwhile, GMU struggles in the A10 and would be a bottom-half CAA school this year. VCU's move has been successful and I can't argue against their move to the A10. ODU basketball program has been downgraded (talent level and conference). If you don't agree, try explaining losses to the former CAA doormat five time in six tries. Ask yourself if the CAA offered ODU basketball-only membership tomorrow if you'd take it?

In order:

* CUSA is brought down by its truly bad programs (UTSA, UTEP, Southern Miss, FIU, all around or worse than 300 in the RPIs). Most years, the top half of CUSA would be far better than the top half of the CAA (this year, with ODU forgetting how to shoot and UAB losing its point guard to injury, isn't one of those years).

* CUSA doesn't get votes in the mid-major top 25 for the same reason the ACC and Big 12 don't -- because they don't qualify for the poll.
Quote:NOTE: The Mid-Major Poll is made up of teams from the following conferences: America East, Atlantic Sun, Big Sky, Big South, Big West, Colonial, Horizon, Independents, Ivy, Metro Atlantic, Mid-American, Mid-Eastern, Missouri Valley, Northeast, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Southern, Southland, Southwestern, Summit, Sun Belt, West Coast, Western Athletic.
Maybe they'll have to revisit that at some point, but for now that's how it is.

* Nobody denies that CUSA is more spread out than the CAA or that football was the driving force behind the move. But let's not act like this is the CAA of, say, 2000. W&M and JMU would be the only in-conference games that consistently would generate interest for ODU fans (UNCW hinges on its success; when they're bad, nobody cares). Elon's not doing it. Charleston, absent a time machine, isn't doing it. Ditto Towson, ditto Drexel, ditto Hofstra, ditto Northeastern.

* Of all those "success stories" you're bragging about in the CAA, UNCW is the only truly remarkable one. It's still a one bid league with perhaps an NIT bid mixed in there. You still only have one top-100 team. Everyone else's "success" is relative to say the least.

* George Mason is 10-3 with road/neutral wins against Penn State, Northern Iowa and Kent State. That's not the stuff of NCAA at-large dreams but it's absolutely enough to finish in the top half of the CAA.

* For starters, some of those losses to W&M came while ODU was in the CAA, so not sure how CUSA takes the blame for that. And long term, I will absolutely take a core of Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, Louisiana Tech, UAB, Rice, Marshall and Charlotte (with UTEP and Southern Miss having reserved spots based on history when they decide to get their **** together) over the core of the CAA, which is UNCW (until Keatts gets a better job) and ... Towson? Charleston? Northeastern? W&M?

* So no, I (and most rational people) would NOT take a non-football return to the CAA. For CUSA's flaws (footprint, current on-court struggles), I still see way more of a future with them than with the CAA. Bring back VCU, Mason, Richmond, Georgia State and, oh what the heck, ECU and we'll talk.
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2016 04:37 PM by Cyniclone.)
12-30-2016 04:36 PM
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ODU Hoops Offline
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Post: #15
C-USA
(12-30-2016 04:15 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(12-30-2016 03:30 PM)ODU Hoops Wrote:  
(12-30-2016 01:24 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(12-30-2016 12:36 PM)ODU Hoops Wrote:  Clearly I'm biased towards hoops based on my username, but I support all ODU sports. Not sure fb was worth this basketball conference.

http://pilotonline.com/sports/college/el...aad6e.html

He said, the day after ODU lost at home to William and Mary.

You clearly don't have a clue. I'm sure one loss to William and Mary makes us one of the worst teams in this conference. We lost the championship in the last minute last year, took Louisville to the wire this year, and have a few name wins over Richmond and St. John's. Whatever makes you feel good though "he said."

OK, let me try and explain this, but bear in mind that apparently I don't have a clue:

When your team loses to a mediocre William and Mary team AT HOME BY DOUBLE DIGITS, the next day is not the optimal time to act all snotty about the conference that team plays in, which oh by the way is also the conference that the Monarchs HAVE NEVER WON.

ODU has two wins against teams with better-than-.500 records and zero against any teams with even the faintest glimmer of NCAA aspirations. They struggled against a JMU team that has lost to nearly everybody by larger margins and were held to a halftime tie against Eastern Mennonite. They had to pull away to beat a Dartmouth team that was winless until two weeks ago. Every quality opponent they played, they lost to. A close loss to Louisville doesn't magically mitigate all that.

The field goal shooting is horrible. The free throw shooting is horrible. This is not an NCAA team, it's not an NIT team, and it might not even be a CBI/CIT/Vegas team if they don't get their **** together in the second half of the season.

But yes, it's CUSA's fault that ODU isn't back to winning 25 games a season and making the NCAAs regularly again.

Thanks for reminding me to bear in mind that you don't have a clue.

I choose not to judge a season after any game, win or loss. Sorry I offended you by posting a link to the preseason conference writeup in the Pilot.

Last night was awful, and we will lose every game that we don't shoot at least average. We will win the ones we shoot better than average, but you don't get that. So do the other people that say that we "suck" as I eloquently quote you.

C-USA is garbage whether or not we finish first or last.
12-30-2016 04:50 PM
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TribePride91 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: C-USA
Cyniclone:

I hope the series continues. There is not enough OOC in-state basketball for me. Just for speculation, since ODU and other G5 football programs are not getting near a seat at the p5 table, where do you see ODU football in 5 years? Will it be a regional new conference with a playoff(perhaps a g5/FCS hybrid) or will ODU still be in CUSA? I vividly remember ODU and VCU as the class of the CAA in basketball. Would you say that things are better than in 2011 when ODU competed for the CAA Championship in both football and basketball, or worse?

Just like some at JMU are desperate for CUSA or the Sun Belt for football, I just question whether it is actually better. You guys are living it, so I respect your opinion. We don't have the size or resources for such a move. As for W&M, we might be mediocre this year, or we might round into form by March. Given our academics and our size, Coach Shaver has worked very well to get us to a point beyond what we have seen. Yes, we haven't won the CAA, but since he arrived we have wins over ACC schools, 3 straight 20 win seasons, and 4 trips to the CAA finals(one of which I am sure you fondly remember). Sooner or later, the door will be knocked down, but until then, we now are getting guys that can really play. Prior to Shaver's arrival, we had no hope for a Marcus Thornton, Daniel Dixon, Quinn McDowell or Omar Prewitt who could score 30. Maybe the loss to us won't look as bad to you in a few months.

Good luck in the rest of the season and looking forward to a new battle next year.
12-30-2016 05:14 PM
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WMTribe90 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: C-USA
(12-30-2016 04:36 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(12-30-2016 04:15 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  
(12-30-2016 02:07 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-30-2016 01:10 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  The problem is that we are a major contributor to the SUCK. If CUSA is that bad, we should be able to win it.

If we don't get to the NCAA's after next season, it's time to look in a different direction.

Yup. The CAA w/o VCU and GMU is not any more attractive anyway.

Really!? At the end of OOC play, the CAA ranks #11 and CUSA ranks #25 in conference RPI. CAA has two mid-major top 25 squads (#3 and #22) and three others receiving votes. Conference USA has no teams ranked in top 25 or even receiving votes! No difference there? The CAA has a few teams in the at-large mix. Conference USA?

No difference between a conference where your closest road game is nearly 500 miles away in another state versus a conference with two in-state conference foes and five others within driving distance (<275 miles)? How many away conference basketball games have you attended since joining CUSA? How many did you attend when ODU was in the CAA?

Its obvious the move to CUSA was a football move. It accomplished the goal of getting ODU football FBS status. Let's not pretend it was a lateral basketball move and that it hasn't diminished your basketball program.

The CAA conference took a step back after GMU, ODU and VCU left. No doubt. But, a lot has changed since those early years following the defections. WM has strung together 3 consecutive 20 win seasons, UNCW has returned to prominence not enjoyed since the Blizzard era, Towson has found considerable success after being a doormat program, NU has the best coach in the league and is consistently strong. New additions Elon and Charleston are coming on strong. Charleston is #22 in the mid-major top 25 and Elon is receiving votes. Hofstra lost in the conference finals last year and are also well-coached. UD appears on the upswing after sacking their coach. Only JMU is struggling among current members. Meanwhile, GMU struggles in the A10 and would be a bottom-half CAA school this year. VCU's move has been successful and I can't argue against their move to the A10. ODU basketball program has been downgraded (talent level and conference). If you don't agree, try explaining losses to the former CAA doormat five time in six tries. Ask yourself if the CAA offered ODU basketball-only membership tomorrow if you'd take it?

In order:

* CUSA is brought down by its truly bad programs (UTSA, UTEP, Southern Miss, FIU, all around or worse than 300 in the RPIs). Most years, the top half of CUSA would be far better than the top half of the CAA (this year, with ODU forgetting how to shoot and UAB losing its point guard to injury, isn't one of those years).

* CUSA doesn't get votes in the mid-major top 25 for the same reason the ACC and Big 12 don't -- because they don't qualify for the poll.
Quote:NOTE: The Mid-Major Poll is made up of teams from the following conferences: America East, Atlantic Sun, Big Sky, Big South, Big West, Colonial, Horizon, Independents, Ivy, Metro Atlantic, Mid-American, Mid-Eastern, Missouri Valley, Northeast, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Southern, Southland, Southwestern, Summit, Sun Belt, West Coast, Western Athletic.
Maybe they'll have to revisit that at some point, but for now that's how it is.

* Nobody denies that CUSA is more spread out than the CAA or that football was the driving force behind the move. But let's not act like this is the CAA of, say, 2000. W&M and JMU would be the only in-conference games that consistently would generate interest for ODU fans (UNCW hinges on its success; when they're bad, nobody cares). Elon's not doing it. Charleston, absent a time machine, isn't doing it. Ditto Towson, ditto Drexel, ditto Hofstra, ditto Northeastern.

* Of all those "success stories" you're bragging about in the CAA, UNCW is the only truly remarkable one. It's still a one bid league with perhaps an NIT bid mixed in there. You still only have one top-100 team. Everyone else's "success" is relative to say the least.

* George Mason is 10-3 with road/neutral wins against Penn State, Northern Iowa and Kent State. That's not the stuff of NCAA at-large dreams but it's absolutely enough to finish in the top half of the CAA.

* For starters, some of those losses to W&M came while ODU was in the CAA, so not sure how CUSA takes the blame for that. And long term, I will absolutely take a core of Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, Louisiana Tech, UAB, Rice, Marshall and Charlotte (with UTEP and Southern Miss having reserved spots based on history when they decide to get their **** together) over the core of the CAA, which is UNCW (until Keatts gets a better job) and ... Towson? Charleston? Northeastern? W&M?

* So no, I (and most rational people) would NOT take a non-football return to the CAA. For CUSA's flaws (footprint, current on-court struggles), I still see way more of a future with them than with the CAA. Bring back VCU, Mason, Richmond, Georgia State and, oh what the heck, ECU and we'll talk.

In order:

Writing off half your conference as "really bad" doesn't really help your argument. I would disagree that this year and moving forward the "top half" of CUSA is better than the "top half" of CAA.

Good to know on the mid-major poll. Have to admit I thought it odd no CUSA teams didn't at least garner votes. Makes no sense whatsoever the CUSA is not considered a mid-major conference.

When you say WM and JMU are the only teams that would move fan interest at ODU, is that not two more than currently move the needle from CUSA. Who is you big CUSA rival? I know you quickly ceded what a geographical nightmare CUSA is for ODU and moved on, but this is no small point IMO. Having two in-state rivals and a handful of opponents that are easy bus games is a big deal. Rivals are born of two things primarily, proximity and/or competitiveness. All the CAA schools you dismissed as not moving the needle are as good or better than most (if not all) your CUSA brethren on both counts.

You can opine about which "core" you prefer, but the conference RPIs speak for themselves. At least for this year, and I believe most years going forward, CAA is a better basketball conference.

GMU lost to Towson and managed to beat the absolute worse team in the CAA by 3 points in OT. They're middle of the pack CAA.

I'll take you at your word that you'd decline CAA basketball-only membership. That's fine, but your mindset is stuck on the hallowed-out league ODU left and not the rebuilt league that currently sits #11 in RPI. Last season the CAA finished #9 to CUSA #21. I see two leagues moving in opposite directions. Why wouldn't you want (theoretically) the more competitive league that offers in-state rivals, a logical footprint, reduced costs, and a basketball first mentality.

Good luck to ODU the rest of the way.
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2016 05:33 PM by WMTribe90.)
12-30-2016 05:24 PM
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ccbengal Offline
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Post: #18
RE: C-USA
(12-30-2016 04:31 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  Both .....1 bid leagues ! Period end of story.

yep, that's THE story that matters...unless you want to play the "who sucks worse" game...I'll pass...
12-30-2016 06:16 PM
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TedHead Offline
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Post: #19
RE: C-USA
Does the mid-major basketball poll include the MAC, Sun Belt, AAC, A10, MWC,?
12-30-2016 08:51 PM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: C-USA
To the two tribe fans:

First off, you keep comparing CAA and CUSA using RPI. Yes, the CAA has a much higher RPI. That is because our worst teams are below 300 which absolutely tanks the average. The top half of CUSA probably is better than the top half of the CAA. Put the top 3 teams against each other and I wouldn't think twice to bet on it. Is ODU in the top 3 this year? Hell no. It's quite evident we have some work to do.

Kenpom Top 5:

MTSU: 67
LT: 98
ODU: 106
Rice: 111
Marshall: 129

UNCW: 54
COC: 93
WM: 127
Elon: 137
NE: 138

Kenpom Bottom 3:

USM: 338
UTEP: 302
UTSA: 282

JMU: 269
DE: 268
Drex: 228

Our 3 worst programs are rated even worse than the abysmal season JMU is having this year. While I'm no means saying ODU is in a great conference, the RPI ranking argument as an end-all be-all statement is just something I don't buy. I've watched every home game for the last 10 years and I can confidently say that the top programs of CUSA are a much better product than the old CAA for sure. My point is, the CAA isn't THAT great that we would want to move back into it. The RPI average boost is coming from the middle of the pack, which consists of teams that don't excite me any more than UTEP or North Texas do.
12-30-2016 11:20 PM
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