(12-29-2016 02:59 PM)pat5775 Wrote:  Let's just say our undefeated 2009 season happened again this past season (just for the sake of argument). Wouldn't the #3 ranked Bearcats be in the playoffs??

No way. Cartel will never let it happen. Folks, we are in the minor leagues. Get used to it. Most of you should love it since you were big Ono supporters. This is what he left you. The AAC champ gets to play a 6-6 team from the ACC - yippee.

8 team G5 playoff is a good idea. Ask Marshall fans? I have several that are friends and customers. They all tell great stories of their march to a National Championship.

All of you high school football fans here in Ohio should understand with 7 separate Divisions. Do you think that the players, parents, students at LaSalle feel any less special than those at Colerain or St. X?

NO NO NO on a "g5 playoff'...

do that and the nail is in the coffin on the split from P5 and G5

This is the biggest reason UC needs to drop the Miami OH crap and MUST find a way to schedule two decent P5 schools every year. They have no shot otherwise. I don't care if they are one and done buy games, just do it, otherwise they are competing for nothing.

I'm torn on the issue...

There is--not "will be" but there already is--a division within "FBS." I don't think it's really debatable. The "Power" conferences are one division, the "g" conferences are another. This is a FINANCIAL division, but it will render the two divisions substantially uncompetitive over time, just as surely as the scholarship limits render FBS and FCS as uncompetitive. (And please, spare me the "single game" arguments... ND State and SD State, like Appy State before them, can beat a FBS program on any given week, but over the course of a season neither SD nor ND State would stand up to playing even a CUSA slate.) When you have a disparity of income like what has now occurred, there is no way that the "g" division schools will be able to keep up.

For instance, UConn just signed Randy Edsall to a Head Coaching contract that has a base pay of $1 Million/year. Compare that with WVU that just inked their DC to a contract that has a base pay of...wait for it... $1 Million/year. And that's just a simple comparison; how much did Kiffin get for being the OC at 'Bama? (I think it was more than $1 Million/year...) And that's JUST salaries. WVU is also doing a modest $60 Million renovation to their stadium concourses...which they didn't even have to break a sweat on once they started getting their full Big XII media money.

So there is a division that has taken place. And even if the most optimistic of the AAC fanboys is correct, the AAC will still be compensated at only about half of their next nearest "Power" conferences...and God forbid the money either stays where it is or decreases. Silly helmet stickers not withstanding, that's what being in a "Power" conference means: you are in the new "upper" division of FBS.

That being said, to start a "g conference playoff" is to codify that divisional separation. If we were going to do that, we might as well start talking to the top of the FCS and look to expand the new division with the likes of the Big Sky. It'd be setting up the "new FCS" and I don't think any of us are ready to go gently into that good night...though it probably is inevitable over the long-term.

The other new reality that needs to be recognized is that the Bowls...for all intents and purposes...are an endangered species. Already we are seeing players refusing to play in any of the non-Playoff bowls. Even really "good" bowls. The CFP has devalued the non-playoff bowls. So, maybe the future for the "g" division is not a playoff, but the remainder of the Bowl system. What starts to happen to once prestigious Bowl Games...say the Liberty, or the Sun...if the marquee players all start pulling out of them because their teams got left out of the playoffs and they don't want to risk injury or just are plain lazy? Especially if the CFP expands to 8 teams, meaning that even more players begin to sit-out because the value of the non-playoff bowls has further diminished?

I don't know.

No no no.
Rather no football than second class. It is not worth the investment. We could reduce the title 9 responsibilities and be more financially sound. Let FCC modify the stadium at will and work out a good fair lease. Our soccer programs would flourish. I would not go to see another UC football game if we cannot strive to be the best. Hate hate this idea. If we must I would want us to go independent in hopes we get a life line for our efforts to non conform.

a G5 playoff will only cement the reality we all already know: we are in the small time. The new fcs if you will.

The one single little chip we have left is a miracle year and the NY6 bowl game, which we currently compete vs 50 some odd programs.

the system totally sucks and is totally rigged

I know we can't do it due to investment, but I wonder if when all the smoke clears, if we wouldn't have been better off building an amazing bball arena, hired a mega coach, and went into the Big East, dropping football to FCS or dropping it altogether.

Not saying we should have, but I am just wondering aloud if that would have been the better move when all is said and done...because playing in the G5 for a G5 playoff title is fricken lame. I wouldn't even watch us in a G5 playoff. i'd rather play a 6-6 Souther Carolina in some lame december bowl than that crap.


this sucks

(12-29-2016 08:45 PM)Demoengr Wrote:  No no no.
Rather no football than second class. It is not worth the investment. We could reduce the title 9 responsibilities and be more financially sound. Let FCC modify the stadium at will and work out a good fair lease. Our soccer programs would flourish. I would not go to see another UC football game if we cannot strive to be the best. Hate hate this idea. If we must I would want us to go independent in hopes we get a life line for our efforts to non conform.

Sure hope you, and others like you, expressed these comments to the BOT and Dr. Santa Ono over the last few years.

(12-29-2016 05:27 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 02:59 PM)pat5775 Wrote:  Let's just say our undefeated 2009 season happened again this past season (just for the sake of argument). Wouldn't the #3 ranked Bearcats be in the playoffs??

No way. Cartel will never let it happen. Folks, we are in the minor leagues. Get used to it. Most of you should love it since you were big Ono supporters. This is what he left you. The AAC champ gets to play a 6-6 team from the ACC - yippee.

8 team G5 playoff is a good idea. Ask Marshall fans? I have several that are friends and customers. They all tell great stories of their march to a National Championship.

All of you high school football fans here in Ohio should understand with 7 separate Divisions. Do you think that the players, parents, students at LaSalle feel any less special than those at Colerain or St. X?

How does the fault lay at Ono's feet? The XII never had any intention of expanding. That was proven by the complete sham of a process and the result. Was Ono also to blame for the BEAST implosion and for our leaders at the time to stick with a sinking ship? Was it Ono who waited way too long to upgrade Nippert and the AD department when UL went all in on athletics? How you lay the fault at one persons feet is ridiculous.

(12-29-2016 09:37 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 05:27 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 02:59 PM)pat5775 Wrote:  Let's just say our undefeated 2009 season happened again this past season (just for the sake of argument). Wouldn't the #3 ranked Bearcats be in the playoffs??

No way. Cartel will never let it happen. Folks, we are in the minor leagues. Get used to it. Most of you should love it since you were big Ono supporters. This is what he left you. The AAC champ gets to play a 6-6 team from the ACC - yippee.

8 team G5 playoff is a good idea. Ask Marshall fans? I have several that are friends and customers. They all tell great stories of their march to a National Championship.

All of you high school football fans here in Ohio should understand with 7 separate Divisions. Do you think that the players, parents, students at LaSalle feel any less special than those at Colerain or St. X?

How does the fault lay at Ono's feet? The XII never had any intention of expanding. That was proven by the complete sham of a process and the result. Was Ono also to blame for the BEAST implosion and for our leaders at the time to stick with a sinking ship? Was it Ono who waited way too long to upgrade Nippert and the AD department when UL went all in on athletics? How you lay the fault at one persons feet is ridiculous.

Very logical actually. Ono, along with the BOT during his tenure, had the keys to the University. With all the energy coming off of years of great athletic performance, with all the University financial and academic resources, with all the University contacts, and with all the atmosphere for realignment, the leaders of the University of Cincinnati failed - period. Irreparable failure I'm afraid. Pitt's Chancellor, Louisville's President, TCU's President, WVU's President, Syracuse's Chancellor, and on and on, made it happen for their universities that they were entrusted to protect. Scoreboard - UC was shut out - literally.

Heck even the smaller schools are getting upwardly mobile and realigning themselves into the G5 - Old Dominion in a bowl - crazy. The Monarchs must have some great leaders dedicated to making their University better. Not just tweeting and self-promoting, #HottestCollegeinAmerica my a$$. The man actually went on a nationwide tour (did he sell T-shirts) - while the University slid backwards into huge athletic revenue shortfalls. By the way, he conveniently found excuses for not attending either Belk Bowl right in the middle of ACC country during the hottest discussions on realignment.

We have fans on this board that are now supporting shutting down football, investing in basketball, and handing over Nippert for minor-league soccer. The chasm between the have's and have not's is exploding. How could Ono and the BOT not understand that failing in this ruthless game of realignment musical chairs was not an option? Certainly not an option for an urban campus. Even hokey Butch Jones saw the writing on the wall and bolted to Tennessee via Colorado. And so did Babcock. And then Ono. All gone. Nothing accomplished.

rtaylor, you stated that Joe Steger was a great man that you personally knew. We both agree on many of Joe's accomplishments. He propelled UC to first class status in athletics. Dr. Santa Ono literally body-surfed on the backs of leaders like Joe Steger. Unfortunately the wave was too big of a challenge and he got caught up in the riptide that pulled UC back to second class status. Simply put Ono could not do what Steger did. And we both know Steger had far less to work with.

(12-29-2016 10:11 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 09:37 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 05:27 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 02:59 PM)pat5775 Wrote:  Let's just say our undefeated 2009 season happened again this past season (just for the sake of argument). Wouldn't the #3 ranked Bearcats be in the playoffs??

No way. Cartel will never let it happen. Folks, we are in the minor leagues. Get used to it. Most of you should love it since you were big Ono supporters. This is what he left you. The AAC champ gets to play a 6-6 team from the ACC - yippee.

8 team G5 playoff is a good idea. Ask Marshall fans? I have several that are friends and customers. They all tell great stories of their march to a National Championship.

All of you high school football fans here in Ohio should understand with 7 separate Divisions. Do you think that the players, parents, students at LaSalle feel any less special than those at Colerain or St. X?

How does the fault lay at Ono's feet? The XII never had any intention of expanding. That was proven by the complete sham of a process and the result. Was Ono also to blame for the BEAST implosion and for our leaders at the time to stick with a sinking ship? Was it Ono who waited way too long to upgrade Nippert and the AD department when UL went all in on athletics? How you lay the fault at one persons feet is ridiculous.

Very logical actually. Ono, along with the BOT during his tenure, had the keys to the University. With all the energy coming off of years of great athletic performance, with all the University financial and academic resources, with all the University contacts, and with all the atmosphere for realignment, the leaders of the University of Cincinnati failed - period. Irreparable failure I'm afraid. Pitt's Chancellor, Louisville's President, TCU's President, WVU's President, Syracuse's Chancellor, and on and on, made it happen for their universities that they were entrusted to protect. Scoreboard - UC was shut out - literally.

Heck even the smaller schools are getting upwardly mobile and realigning themselves into the G5 - Old Dominion in a bowl - crazy. The Monarchs must have some great leaders dedicated to making their University better. Not just tweeting and self-promoting, #HottestCollegeinAmerica my a$$. The man actually went on a nationwide tour (did he sell T-shirts) - while the University slid backwards into huge athletic revenue shortfalls. By the way, he conveniently found excuses for not attending either Belk Bowl right in the middle of ACC country during the hottest discussions on realignment.

We have fans on this board that are now supporting shutting down football, investing in basketball, and handing over Nippert for minor-league soccer. The chasm between the have's and have not's is exploding. How could Ono and the BOT not understand that failing in this ruthless game of realignment musical chairs was not an option? Certainly not an option for an urban campus. Even hokey Butch Jones saw the writing on the wall and bolted to Tennessee via Colorado. And so did Babcock. And then Ono. All gone. Nothing accomplished.

rtaylor, you stated that Joe Steger was a great man that you personally knew. We both agree on many of Joe's accomplishments. He propelled UC to first class status in athletics. Dr. Santa Ono literally body-surfed on the backs of leaders like Joe Steger. Unfortunately the wave was too big of a challenge and he got caught up in the riptide that pulled UC back to second class status. Simply put Ono could not do what Steger did. And we both know Steger had far less to work with.

I think the momentum that Steger started was not capitalized on by Zimpher and Williams. Varsity village, getting into the BEAST, was awesome, but we should not have sat still. Investments in athletics needed to continue with regards to Nippert, Fifth Third, Olympic sports etc. Louisville sure did not sit still. Pitt, Syracuse, WVA all did a better job and had a ton of history on their side to get the last life boats out. The one that should sting the most is UL. Did no one even look to see what was going on down there and the money they were pouring into athletics? When the BEAST was breaking up and got rid of Marinetto, was it not Williams who took over and went down with the sinking ship? You have some good points, but I just think there are a multitude of leaders who were too short sighted to see what was going on to lay it one mans feet.

Its too late to ditch football...we have invested multi millions into football.

If we were going to go that route, we should have done it pre-nippert expansion at about the time the Big East Catholic 7 split off. We could have went all in on basketball, built a ultra nice arena, hired a big name coach and just nestled into the Big East.

but again, we can't do that now...too much money dumped into football and the Big East isn't an option with Xavier there now...


Edit: UCONN could probably still do that (and prob. should) but I don't see this as a realistic option now for UC

So we need to make football work. But being that as it may, I will say again, if the the G5 starts their own playoff, i won't watch one second of one game of said playoff. It's beyond mickey mouse.

i'd rather see the G5 schools launch a class action lawsuit vs the P5 and ESPN (they own the bowls, the playoffs, etc.).

(12-29-2016 10:47 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Its too late to ditch football...we have invested multi millions into football.

If we were going to go that route, we should have done it pre-nippert expansion at about the time the Big East Catholic 7 split off. We could have went all in on basketball, built a ultra nice arena, hired a big name coach and just nestled into the Big East.

but again, we can't do that now...too much money dumped into football and the Big East isn't an option with Xavier there now...


Edit: UCONN could probably still do that (and prob. should) but I don't see this as a realistic option now for UC

So we need to make football work. But being that as it may, I will say again, if the the G5 starts their own playoff, i won't watch one second of one game of said playoff. It's beyond mickey mouse.

i'd rather see the G5 schools launch a class action lawsuit vs the P5 and ESPN (they own the bowls, the playoffs, etc.).

Agree G5 needs to fight this injustice tooth and nail. I can't believe this has been allowed to happen to begin with. It is is joke that the lower level teams in the "p5 conferences" are rewarded for doing nothing. It is time to level the playing field. If they don't people will eventually lose interest, no one wants to watch the same teams win it every year, like is going to happen in the current setup.

I think the G5 playoff would be great, as it could effectively end the bowls, which to me are a waste.

I think if teams started choosing the playoff over bowls, and devalued the bowls, everything else would shake out .

(12-29-2016 09:37 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 05:27 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 02:59 PM)pat5775 Wrote:  Let's just say our undefeated 2009 season happened again this past season (just for the sake of argument). Wouldn't the #3 ranked Bearcats be in the playoffs??

No way. Cartel will never let it happen. Folks, we are in the minor leagues. Get used to it. Most of you should love it since you were big Ono supporters. This is what he left you. The AAC champ gets to play a 6-6 team from the ACC - yippee.

8 team G5 playoff is a good idea. Ask Marshall fans? I have several that are friends and customers. They all tell great stories of their march to a National Championship.

All of you high school football fans here in Ohio should understand with 7 separate Divisions. Do you think that the players, parents, students at LaSalle feel any less special than those at Colerain or St. X?

How does the fault lay at Ono's feet? The XII never had any intention of expanding. That was proven by the complete sham of a process and the result. Was Ono also to blame for the BEAST implosion and for our leaders at the time to stick with a sinking ship? Was it Ono who waited way too long to upgrade Nippert and the AD department when UL went all in on athletics? How you lay the fault at one persons feet is ridiculous.

Relax... No need to read into it too far. Dr. Ono is just the next step in the meandering blame game flow chart that is typically followed on this board.

As you can see from the subsequent posts, we have already started to move into the more desperate advanced stages which is why FC Cincinnati, Dr Gregory Williams, and Nancy Zimpher are now being invoked.

It's too bad none of these posters couldn't find it in themselves to notify our former presidents and ADs about the landscape surrounding collegiate athletics when this was all going down as they all seem to have had foreknowledge that these events would transpire accordingly. Maybe one of our fine prognosticators could have whispered gently into Bohn's ear and convinced him to invest another cool million into our presentation to the BIG 12. That would have surely put us over the top.

Hindsight is 20/20, people. Without a pedigree of national championships or the willingness to whore our academic institution out to instead provide a minor league professional athletics program (see Louisville), we are largely subject to the whims of the power players. And yet we are still one of the most attractive options for expansion despite all of that. Is anyone going to give anyone credit for that?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using CSNbbs mobile app

Maybe this leads to the great circle. The G5 has a playoff. G5 playoff gets a competing network to cover it and the G5 regular season. A couple of great G5 teams has people wondering if they could compete with the P5 champion. A "Super Bowl" of the two champions is arranged. After two solid losses, the G5 team wins the third matchup in a stunning upset. The two divisions then merge, recreating college football as we once knew it.

(12-29-2016 10:47 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Its too late to ditch football...we have invested multi millions into football.

If we were going to go that route, we should have done it pre-nippert expansion at about the time the Big East Catholic 7 split off. We could have went all in on basketball, built a ultra nice arena, hired a big name coach and just nestled into the Big East.

but again, we can't do that now...too much money dumped into football and the Big East isn't an option with Xavier there now...


Edit: UCONN could probably still do that (and prob. should) but I don't see this as a realistic option now for UC

So we need to make football work. But being that as it may, I will say again, if the the G5 starts their own playoff, i won't watch one second of one game of said playoff. It's beyond mickey mouse.

i'd rather see the G5 schools launch a class action lawsuit vs the P5 and ESPN (they own the bowls, the playoffs, etc.).

Anti-trust is a non-issue. Just because some Utah politician or Boise President screams it to get attention doesn't mean that it has any validity. The G5 schools are voluntarily agreeing to enter into whatever system the P5 schools are offering. That it's not equitable does NOT constitute anti-trust or restraint of trade. It simply means that the G5 is willing to take what it's being offered. So the real question is, are the G5 Presidents and ADs undervaluing their product or are they correctly thinking that the P5 deal is more valuable than what we could get breaking off on our own?

The G5 schools are free to break off from the P5, and hell even the entire NCAA if they want to and compete on their own merits. Now if they did that, and the P5 and ESPN used their market leverage to strong arm venues to not let them hold their playoffs and bowls there...to strong arm networks into not televising their playoff, that would truly be restraint of trade and anti-trust. The simple fact that nobody is willing to pay much for the G5 product is not anti-trust; it's market economics.

And besides, for all intents and purposes, this country hasn't enforced the Sherman Anti-Trust Act since the early 1980s. Anyone bothered to count how many oil companies are left? Another 20 years, and Rockefeller's Standard Oil will be put back together. Airlines? Beer Companies? They just allowed a merger to go through that gives one company over 90% of the domestic market.

(12-29-2016 11:03 PM)icecat21 Wrote:  Agree G5 needs to fight this injustice tooth and nail. I can't believe this has been allowed to happen to begin with. It is is joke that the lower level teams in the "p5 conferences" are rewarded for doing nothing. It is time to level the playing field. If they don't people will eventually lose interest, no one wants to watch the same teams win it every year, like is going to happen in the current setup.

And we'll throw out voluntary freedom of association then too. The Big Ten chooses to extend membership and share revenue with Purdue and Indiana for reasons beyond football (history, academics, basketball), and that's their right. Where does this line of thought end? Do we get a share of Big Ten Network revenue? Does Ohio State share their ticket revenue with UC? Does UC share its larger ticket and tv revenue with the Ohio MAC schools?

Again, the AAC schools are perfectly free to build 80K seat stadiums and start a network. They're perfectly free to disassociate entirely from the P5 and start a competing athletic association with its own bowls and playoffs. That there isn't a market for that product has nothing to do with anti-trust and injustice.

(12-30-2016 09:39 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  Maybe this leads to the great circle. The G5 has a playoff. G5 playoff gets a competing network to cover it and the G5 regular season. A couple of great G5 teams has people wondering if they could compete with the P5 champion. A "Super Bowl" of the two champions is arranged. After two solid losses, the G5 team wins the third matchup in a stunning upset. The two divisions then merge, recreating college football as we once knew it.

Seems like a winning concept.

Otherwise it's like Bluto said, "Hey! What's this lying around $hit? .... What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? "

(12-30-2016 09:39 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  Maybe this leads to the great circle. The G5 has a playoff. G5 playoff gets a competing network to cover it and the G5 regular season. A couple of great G5 teams has people wondering if they could compete with the P5 champion. A "Super Bowl" of the two champions is arranged. After two solid losses, the G5 team wins the third matchup in a stunning upset. The two divisions then merge, recreating college football as we once knew it.

I sense sarcasm.

This actually could work, but only in a scenario where the G5 agrees to pre-empt the P5 in offering to provide financial compensation for its players outside of tuition. UC, Houston, USF, and Memphis might do this, but I don't picture anyone else doing this. Maybe it's a situation where a new conference would have to be formed. Crazy idea, but it could work. Of course, the P5 that would be affected would quickly move to create the same thing with higher compensation with their increased resources.