i don't think its a matter of afraid or not.

its they don't feel those teams belong. Right or wrong.

if WMU was in a playoff this year, they would likely be an 8 seed. Problem is, the quarterfinal round is going to have to be at home sites. They would have to travel to Alabama. That would not have ended well. And the P5 and the networks that pay them big bucks will not be happy to broadcast an uninteresting blowout.

football is different than basketball. It's not as easy to get mid major upsets like in hoops. just doesn't happen at that elite level.

(01-20-2017 03:38 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Ken: winning a conference should mean something. And if you can't get to the CCG, you don't deserve an at-large bid.

It should mean something. But that something isn't a guaranteed spot in an 8 team playoff.

(01-20-2017 04:12 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  i don't think its a matter of afraid or not.

its they don't feel those teams belong. Right or wrong.

if WMU was in a playoff this year, they would likely be an 8 seed. Problem is, the quarterfinal round is going to have to be at home sites. They would have to travel to Alabama. That would not have ended well. And the P5 and the networks that pay them big bucks will not be happy to broadcast an uninteresting blowout.

football is different than basketball. It's not as easy to get mid major upsets like in hoops. just doesn't happen at that elite level.

The G5 is 7-3 all time in the access bowl so I beg to differ.

Ken: just come out and say you want to demote the G5 to FCS!

Makes you wonder how long it will take for the g-5 to wake up and realize they are playing in a division of football they have absolutely no chance of ever winning.

I personally think it could turn out to be a very popular level of football coming at the expense of FCS. There are a lot of quality schools out there who simply choose to play in FCS so they have a shot at a championship. Many of these have better finances and fan support than the CUSA ann Sun Belt schools but are not dumb enough to play in the same level with schools who have 100+ Million $ AD's when they have 25 or 30.

G-4 plus schools like Montana, MSU, NDSU, North Dakota, South Dakota, Idaho etc would be a really solid level of football for schools with AD budgets in the upper teens to low 40's.

(01-20-2017 11:22 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  This is premised on getting down to 8 conferences. But if that ever happened, I would use CCGs as the opening round.

This is the plan you want:

http://greglange.blogspot.com/2013/04/my...-plan.html

16 team playoffs. Every conference winner gets in. 10 game regular season. Postseason games for everybody so almost every team plays at least 12 games. Gets rid of bowl games and two meaningless OOC games. Makes college football huge with more made for TV events. End of year conference versus conference action for teams that don't make the playoffs.

The more I read, the more I loved it!! This needs to happen!

(01-20-2017 04:12 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  i don't think its a matter of afraid or not.

its they don't feel those teams belong. Right or wrong.

if WMU was in a playoff this year, they would likely be an 8 seed. Problem is, the quarterfinal round is going to have to be at home sites. They would have to travel to Alabama. That would not have ended well. And the P5 and the networks that pay them big bucks will not be happy to broadcast an uninteresting blowout.

football is different than basketball. It's not as easy to get mid major upsets like in hoops. just doesn't happen at that elite level.

True to some degree. I think schools in the AAC and say Boise have a better shot in a situation like that than MAC, CUSA, or Sun Belt schools do.

Gotta find a way to include but exclude them. Kinda like the play in games for the NCAA tourney at #65 and #66.

At the end of the day TV partners are not going to pay big money for a g-5 game even if it is against Bama. It sucks but it's the reality of he situation. IF ESPN doesn't' want to pay for it, and the p-5 does not' want to pay for it, I don't see the situation improving for the g-5 until they accept that they need to come up with thier own playoff at this point.

How about the g-5 have a playoff and they can keep the money and then the p-5 can have a playoff and keep the money. ESPN will pay for it and everyone will be happy.

(01-20-2017 04:52 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Ken: just come out and say you want to demote the G5 to FCS!

Why would I say that? And why do you think I would?

What I don't want to do is promote them without earning it. Why do you want to do that?

At least you admit you didn't want to admit it.

Why I advocate for G5 inclusion? Because I believe that everyone deserves a fair shot at a championship.

(01-20-2017 11:22 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  This is premised on getting down to 8 conferences. But if that ever happened, I would use CCGs as the opening round.

Is this something you can get behind? Which 2 conferences bite the dust?

The life is not fair. If the playoff expands to 8, it will be

5 bids for P5 champions.
1 bid for the highest ranked G5 school.
2 wild cards

Notre Dame has to compete for the the wild card spot but it will be given a lower bar, like finishing in the top 4 excluding the 6 auto bids.

(01-20-2017 07:12 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 11:22 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  This is premised on getting down to 8 conferences. But if that ever happened, I would use CCGs as the opening round.

Is this something you can get behind? Which 2 conferences bite the dust?

The world is not fair. If the playoff expands to 8, it will be

5 bids for P5 champion.
1 bid for the highest ranked G5 school.
2 wild cards

Notre Dame has to compete for the the wild card spot but it will be given a lower bar, like finished in the top 4 excluding the 6 getting auto bids.

So how much is a Bama vs WMU game worth to ESPN?

I'm in a wheelchair, so don't talk to me about fairness of life!

On topic: if a conference is in FBS: its champion has earned a chance at a NC.

(01-20-2017 06:09 PM)p23570 Wrote:  Makes you wonder how long it will take for the g-5 to wake up and realize they are playing in a division of football they have absolutely no chance of ever winning.

I personally think it could turn out to be a very popular level of football coming at the expense of FCS. There are a lot of quality schools out there who simply choose to play in FCS so they have a shot at a championship. Many of these have better finances and fan support than the CUSA ann Sun Belt schools but are not dumb enough to play in the same level with schools who have 100+ Million $ AD's when they have 25 or 30.

G-4 plus schools like Montana, MSU, NDSU, North Dakota, South Dakota, Idaho etc would be a really solid level of football for schools with AD budgets in the upper teens to low 40's.

A G5 team is going to get better viewership from playing in an FBS bowl than playing in a lower level playoff. People will just consider them the new FCS and pay them no attention.

La Tech is hosting Mississippi State next year. Do you think that would happen if the G5 split from the FBS?

Lastly, I've said it once and I'll say it again:
An FBS bowl trophy means more than a JV "national" title.

(01-20-2017 06:53 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  At least you admit you didn't want to admit it.

Why I advocate for G5 inclusion? Because I believe that everyone deserves a fair shot at a championship.

I'm not sure what that even means.

But if I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying that every conference champion should be in a playoff, no matter how weak they are. I believe that everyone deserves a fair shot at a championship. That doesn't mean everyone should be in the playoff. It means they have a chance throughout the regular season to demonstrate that they have what it takes to compete and win against the toughest competition.

A few years ago, UCLA played for the PAC championship with a 6-6 record. If they won that CCG, your argument would be that they deserved to be in the playoff. I could not disagree more. Winning a conference championship is one way a team can demonstrate it is one of the best teams. But it's not the only way, and it isn't always a right way. When a conference champion demonstrated six times during the season that it was not one of the very few best teams in the country, then they had their chance and they blew it.

It is really a very new idea that the G5 deserves a spot in an NY6 bowl. It wasn't that way during the BCS era, and it certainly wasn't before that. The fact is that even now that they are guaranteed such a spot, it doesn't mean that they deserve it, or that they earned it. Guaranteeing a spot in a game that has no significance once the final whistle blows regardless who wins is very different from guaranteeing a spot in a championship playoff at the expense of another team that deserves it more.

If every conference champion has to be in a playoff, then you can't just pick one G5 champion. You have to pick them all. Which means there will be a lot of unwatchable playoff games, and ESPN and Fox aren't going to want to pay for that.

And if not every conference champion "deserves" to be in the playoff, then none of them do - at least not just by virtue of being a champion. They deserve it by being one of the best 8 teams (assuming there were actually a way of determining who those were).

(01-20-2017 06:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 04:52 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Ken: just come out and say you want to demote the G5 to FCS!

Why would I say that? And why do you think I would?

What I don't want to do is promote them without earning it. Why do you want to do that?

The P5 never earned anything.

They just used their leverage over the years to shape the system in their favor.

(01-20-2017 09:01 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 06:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 04:52 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Ken: just come out and say you want to demote the G5 to FCS!

Why would I say that? And why do you think I would?

What I don't want to do is promote them without earning it. Why do you want to do that?

The P5 never earned anything.

They just used their leverage over the years to shape the system in their favor.

The "P5" never earned anything. But many of their individual schools did, over many years. And it is individual schools who get selected for a playoff. They earned it by winning a lot more games than lesser teams did, over long periods of time. They earned it by beating other teams who also win a lot.

Alabama "shaped the system in their favor" by being one of the best programs over an entire century. They shaped it before there ever was a P5, and before there were AQ conferences. They earned the presumption that they are one of the best when they once again win most of their games in any given season.

Teams aren't good because they are in P5 conferences. Conferences are P5 because they have a lot of teams that are good, and have proven that over time.