I am very interested to see if:

1. Tubs could not coach talent or

2. Tubs did not recruit talent.

If he did not recruit talent we are in for a tough time.

(12-27-2016 05:33 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  I am very interested to see if:

1. Tubs could not coach talent or

2. Tubs did not recruit talent.

If he did not recruit talent we are in for a tough time.

It's both. Fickell has his work cut out for him.

(12-27-2016 05:33 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  I am very interested to see if:

1. Tubs could not coach talent or

2. Tubs did not recruit talent.

If he did not recruit talent we are in for a tough time.

I don't think he could coach or recruit....period.

So both.

I stand by my statements that recruiting is better than you think. TT being Retired In Place (RIP) it wasn't developed. If you believe TT wasn't developing players or a good game day coach while here (which I do) the only explanation for why UC was playing teams tough is the talent on the field.

I'm not so sure about the quality of this roster.

It's as thin from top to bottom as I can recall going back to when Dantonio started his youth movement.

(12-28-2016 09:30 AM)Crewdogz Wrote:  I stand by my statements that recruiting is better than you think. TT being Retired In Place (RIP) it wasn't developed. If you believe TT wasn't developing players or a good game day coach while here (which I do) the only explanation for why UC was playing teams tough is the talent on the field.

Well we werent really playing teams tough this year or at the end of last season. But I do agree we have enough talent to be competitive in the AAC (but probably not with anyone above the bottom tier P5 schools). And I also believe the talent advantage we had from the players Butch left is why we won early on under Tubs. This conference is not great and good coaching is the difference between not making a bowl and contending. If Fickell and staff are good developers and gameday coaches we can be competitive right away.

(12-28-2016 09:49 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I'm not so sure about the quality of this roster.

It's as thin from top to bottom as I can recall going back to when Dantonio started his youth movement.

I am sort of in between you and Crew. We are pretty talented at RB, WR, Corner and Safety. We are really thin on the OL and I have concerns at LB. Our defensive line group has probably more bodies than we have had in a while, but the only guy that jobs out and wows me is Cortez Broughton.

It will be interesting to see the new schemes the staff brings. On defense, the Tubs regime ran a very vanilla scheme. Our talent on hand might shine in a more aggressive, blitzing, type of system. Improving the tackling alone will make the group appear world's better. Guys need to wrap up and more gang-tackling is woefully needed.

On offense, I need to see if Hayden Moore/Ross Trail's production was the indicative of their skill level or of Taylor's system. This will be figured out before the season started. I commented last year we probably should bring in a 5th year Senior Transfer just in case.

(12-28-2016 10:01 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(12-28-2016 09:49 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I'm not so sure about the quality of this roster.

It's as thin from top to bottom as I can recall going back to when Dantonio started his youth movement.

I am sort of in between you and Crew. We are pretty talented at RB, WR, Corner and Safety. We are really thin on the OL and I have concerns at LB. Our defensive line group has probably more bodies than we have had in a while, but the only guy that jobs out and wows me is Cortez Broughton.

It will be interesting to see the new schemes the staff brings. On defense, the Tubs regime ran a very vanilla scheme. Our talent on hand might shine in a more aggressive, blitzing, type of system. Improving the tackling alone will make the group appear world's better. Guys need to wrap up and more gang-tackling is woefully needed.

On offense, I need to see if Hayden Moore/Ross Trail's production was the indicative of their skill level or of Taylor's system. This will be figured out before the season started. I commented last year we probably should bring in a 5th year Senior Transfer just in case.

Great idea. Moore and Trail showed rare glimpses of being special at the position. I want to believe it was mostly poor offensive schemes and decisions but I didn't see much "wow" factor with either and I think UC is in a position to make some noise immediately next season with all the other coaching turnover in the AAC. Get a transfer QB: carpe diem.

I think we have the talent to compete right away. I don't believe we had the coaches that were putting the kids in the right places.

I'm going to take a leap of faith here, but let's say CLF & Co. are better than average - UC will immediately be competitive in the AAC. We can easily win or division. The talent is here folks. It's youngish, and likely a bit underdeveloped.

I think Tubbs & Co had a distinct perspective for the type of athletes they wanted, they more or less got those kids, however they really fumbled in developing and putting them in good situations.

at least that's my take. fwiw


mc

(12-28-2016 10:01 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(12-28-2016 09:49 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I'm not so sure about the quality of this roster.

It's as thin from top to bottom as I can recall going back to when Dantonio started his youth movement.

I am sort of in between you and Crew. We are pretty talented at RB, WR, Corner and Safety. We are really thin on the OL and I have concerns at LB. Our defensive line group has probably more bodies than we have had in a while, but the only guy that jobs out and wows me is Cortez Broughton.

It will be interesting to see the new schemes the staff brings. On defense, the Tubs regime ran a very vanilla scheme. Our talent on hand might shine in a more aggressive, blitzing, type of system. Improving the tackling alone will make the group appear world's better. Guys need to wrap up and more gang-tackling is woefully needed.

On offense, I need to see if Hayden Moore/Ross Trail's production was the indicative of their skill level or of Taylor's system. This will be figured out before the season started. I commented last year we probably should bring in a 5th year Senior Transfer just in case.

Clifton, fair points and I especially agree with you on OL. As to Rath I would agree with thin, this program has struggled under all coaches to have a true 2-deep roster. Perhaps we were at our best under BK.

Here are some random players from the 2 deep roster with information from their bio (I did not cherry pick anyone):

Mike Boone - 2 star WR, converted to RB... considered a 'reach' recruit by experts

Hayden Moore - questioned in this thread for his talent level. He was a 3 star and rated 20th best recruit in AL. On paper many would think he was a good talent yet he is being questioned.

Ross Trail - also questioned in this thread for his talent level. 4 star recruit. Rated 8th best recruit in AK and #18 pro-style QB. Again, great on paper but being questioned.

Kahlil Lewis - starting WR, 3 star prospect, listed as a top 85 WR in the nation.

Ryan Stout - 3 star, rated 20th best OT in the nation by Scout and #99 rated recruit (top 100) in Ohio

Tyler Cogswell - 3 star QB converted to TE, rated a top 100 player from FL

Caleb Ashworth (Back up DE) - rated a 3 star, #37 prospect in the state of VA and #98 DE in the nation.

Tyrell Gilbert (local recruit from Princeton) - rated a 3 star by some services and a 2 star by others, #51 safety in the nation, #72 rated recruit in Ohio.

My take away is the best player up there is the unheralded player out of HS Mike Boone. I think team speed is better.

I think reserving judgement on Fickell is fair, there is data that leads you to believe it is a good hire and data that says it could be a mediocre selection. Minter after all seemed like a slam dunk... stop me if you've heard this... had the #1 rated defense as the DC at Notre Dame... sons lived locally, wanted to stay forever...

Those are my thoughts; have at them...

(12-28-2016 10:19 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(12-28-2016 10:01 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(12-28-2016 09:49 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I'm not so sure about the quality of this roster.

It's as thin from top to bottom as I can recall going back to when Dantonio started his youth movement.

I am sort of in between you and Crew. We are pretty talented at RB, WR, Corner and Safety. We are really thin on the OL and I have concerns at LB. Our defensive line group has probably more bodies than we have had in a while, but the only guy that jobs out and wows me is Cortez Broughton.

It will be interesting to see the new schemes the staff brings. On defense, the Tubs regime ran a very vanilla scheme. Our talent on hand might shine in a more aggressive, blitzing, type of system. Improving the tackling alone will make the group appear world's better. Guys need to wrap up and more gang-tackling is woefully needed.

On offense, I need to see if Hayden Moore/Ross Trail's production was the indicative of their skill level or of Taylor's system. This will be figured out before the season started. I commented last year we probably should bring in a 5th year Senior Transfer just in case.

Great idea. Moore and Trail showed rare glimpses of being special at the position. I want to believe it was mostly poor offensive schemes and decisions but I didn't see much "wow" factor with either and I think UC is in a position to make some noise immediately next season with all the other coaching turnover in the AAC. Get a transfer QB: carpe diem.

You could also factor in the schedule for next year. Some will argue that it's terrible every year in AAC, but look at the details. We're trading Houston, Memphis, Tulsa for Tulane, Navy, SMU. No doubt that gets easier. In the East, both Temple and USF (and UCONN fwiw) get new coaches as you said. There are teams like UCF setup to take a step forward, but that game would be at Nippert.

(12-28-2016 10:01 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(12-28-2016 09:49 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I'm not so sure about the quality of this roster.

It's as thin from top to bottom as I can recall going back to when Dantonio started his youth movement.

I am sort of in between you and Crew. We are pretty talented at RB, WR, Corner and Safety. We are really thin on the OL and I have concerns at LB. Our defensive line group has probably more bodies than we have had in a while, but the only guy that jobs out and wows me is Cortez Broughton.

It will be interesting to see the new schemes the staff brings. On defense, the Tubs regime ran a very vanilla scheme. Our talent on hand might shine in a more aggressive, blitzing, type of system. Improving the tackling alone will make the group appear world's better. Guys need to wrap up and more gang-tackling is woefully needed.

On offense, I need to see if Hayden Moore/Ross Trail's production was the indicative of their skill level or of Taylor's system. This will be figured out before the season started. I commented last year we probably should bring in a 5th year Senior Transfer just in case.

It's hard to say if the right QB is on this roster. I think the offense will look a lot different. We are so used to seeing/wanting a QB who can sling the ball all over the field. If you believe CLF that his offense will look like OSU's, then we need a guy who can run. JT Barrett is far from a good passer, but he can run around and through people. Trail might be that guy if he is as athletic as Tubs said he was.

(12-28-2016 11:29 AM)Cat-Man Wrote:  

(12-28-2016 10:01 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(12-28-2016 09:49 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I'm not so sure about the quality of this roster.

It's as thin from top to bottom as I can recall going back to when Dantonio started his youth movement.

I am sort of in between you and Crew. We are pretty talented at RB, WR, Corner and Safety. We are really thin on the OL and I have concerns at LB. Our defensive line group has probably more bodies than we have had in a while, but the only guy that jobs out and wows me is Cortez Broughton.

It will be interesting to see the new schemes the staff brings. On defense, the Tubs regime ran a very vanilla scheme. Our talent on hand might shine in a more aggressive, blitzing, type of system. Improving the tackling alone will make the group appear world's better. Guys need to wrap up and more gang-tackling is woefully needed.

On offense, I need to see if Hayden Moore/Ross Trail's production was the indicative of their skill level or of Taylor's system. This will be figured out before the season started. I commented last year we probably should bring in a 5th year Senior Transfer just in case.

It's hard to say if the right QB is on this roster. I think the offense will look a lot different. We are so used to seeing/wanting a QB who can sling the ball all over the field. If you believe CLF that his offense will look like OSU's, then we need a guy who can run. JT Barrett is far from a good passer, but he can run around and through people. Trail might be that guy if he is as athletic as Tubs said he was.

Maybe JT Barrett decides to seriously pad his stats in the AAC? One can dream.

He'll head to Texas as a grad transfer to reunite with Herman if anywhere.

I will hold judgment on Trail and Moore until we see what they can do with the new staff. The former regime was a bunch of clowns...

I think if either of them are the starter the other better be able to go because I don't think either has the frame to take a lot of pounding. Anyone know how Jake Spoko did on the practice squad he may need to go too if we run the QB a lot next year.

(12-28-2016 02:08 PM)Nobones Wrote:  I think if either of them are the starter the other better be able to go because I don't think either has the frame to take a lot of pounding. Anyone know how Jake Spoko did on the practice squad he may need to go too if we run the QB a lot next year.

I thought he looked good in the summer scrimmage. Not spectacular or bad.

If we're gonna run tO$U's offense, we need to get a lot better on the OL.