(12-21-2016 04:45 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  We played two Top 50 teams on the road, and were competitive in both, and should have won the first one against Tech. Time will tell, but by the performance to date, I'd say we're a borderline Top 100 team, and should rightfully be ranked in the 105 - 125 range.

It surprises me that poor free-throw shooting was instrumental in both Top 50 losses. It seems like we've improved wonderfully in the hard parts of the game, but regressed in what should be the easiest.

(12-21-2016 05:37 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  

(12-21-2016 04:45 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  We played two Top 50 teams on the road, and were competitive in both, and should have won the first one against Tech. Time will tell, but by the performance to date, I'd say we're a borderline Top 100 team, and should rightfully be ranked in the 105 - 125 range.

It surprises me that poor free-throw shooting was instrumental in both Top 50 losses. It seems like we've improved wonderfully in the hard parts of the game, but regressed in what should be the easiest.

In football, repeated lack of fundamental execution would be attributed by the Parliament to lack of discipline and poor practice habits*. They would say that we're counting on our better recruiting/athleticism to carry us, and not practicing the fundamentals**, which are needed to beat better teams (i.e. we were not good in 2013, we just out-athleted other bad CUSA teams ).

*No consequences for failure to execute fundamentals - what actions should Rhoades take to stress the importance of making free throws? Who should we bench? Basically Walt's position whenever the baseball team fails to get a bunt down as well.

**This is not my opinion on one blocked punt in a year, or our bunting practices, nor is it my opinion on the practice habits of the basketball players.

This is somewhat of a TIC post. I am certainly NOT saying that Rhoades is doing anything wrong.

We blocked zero punts, which tied us for 59th (through 128th) in FBS; we had 1 punt blocked, which tied us for 72nd (through 112th). We blocked 1 place kick, which tied us for 71st (though 101st); we had 4 blocked, which tied us for 110th (through 124th). If you take the midpoints of those "tied with" lists, you get 94th, 92nd, 86th, and 117th, and we were a net minus 4 on kick blocks.

Rick, if you're satisfied with that, so be it. If you want Rice to field a winning team, those results won't get it done.

(12-21-2016 06:31 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(12-21-2016 05:37 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  

(12-21-2016 04:45 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  We played two Top 50 teams on the road, and were competitive in both, and should have won the first one against Tech. Time will tell, but by the performance to date, I'd say we're a borderline Top 100 team, and should rightfully be ranked in the 105 - 125 range.

It surprises me that poor free-throw shooting was instrumental in both Top 50 losses. It seems like we've improved wonderfully in the hard parts of the game, but regressed in what should be the easiest.

In football, repeated lack of fundamental execution would be attributed by the Parliament to lack of discipline and poor practice habits*. They would say that we're counting on our better recruiting/athleticism to carry us, and not practicing the fundamentals**, which are needed to beat better teams (i.e. we were not good in 2013, we just out-athleted other bad CUSA teams ).

*No consequences for failure to execute fundamentals - what actions should Rhoades take to stress the importance of making free throws? Who should we bench? Basically Walt's position whenever the baseball team fails to get a bunt down as well.

**This is not my opinion on one blocked punt in a year, or our bunting practices, nor is it my opinion on the practice habits of the basketball players.

This is somewhat of a TIC post. I am certainly NOT saying that Rhoades is doing anything wrong.

Even with this "repeated lack of fundamental execution", the basketball team is 9-3 against a weak schedule. Against a similarly weak schedule the football team was 3-9.

Coaching makes a difference.

Nah, if we were playing a similar football schedule to our basketball schedule, we would be playing more games like PV and Wagner.

Interesting... Owls 10-3 in football vs. basketball opponents:

OLLU -- W... kick their butts, maybe by a thousand :)
JMU -- big L
TSU -- W
UNO -- W
Montana St. -- probably a W
Delaware St. -- big W
UIW -- W
HBU -- probably a W
TTU -- huge L
SFA - probably a W
St. Ed's -- uhhhh, a big W
Pitt -- slaughter L
NW La. -- probably a W
St. Thomas -- W

(12-21-2016 09:01 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Nah, if we were playing a similar football schedule to our basketball schedule, we would be playing more games like PV and Wagner.

We'll see in conference play, but I expect the basketball team to win more than 25% of its conference games.

(12-21-2016 08:59 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(12-21-2016 06:31 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(12-21-2016 05:37 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  

(12-21-2016 04:45 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  We played two Top 50 teams on the road, and were competitive in both, and should have won the first one against Tech. Time will tell, but by the performance to date, I'd say we're a borderline Top 100 team, and should rightfully be ranked in the 105 - 125 range.

It surprises me that poor free-throw shooting was instrumental in both Top 50 losses. It seems like we've improved wonderfully in the hard parts of the game, but regressed in what should be the easiest.

In football, repeated lack of fundamental execution would be attributed by the Parliament to lack of discipline and poor practice habits*. They would say that we're counting on our better recruiting/athleticism to carry us, and not practicing the fundamentals**, which are needed to beat better teams (i.e. we were not good in 2013, we just out-athleted other bad CUSA teams ).

*No consequences for failure to execute fundamentals - what actions should Rhoades take to stress the importance of making free throws? Who should we bench? Basically Walt's position whenever the baseball team fails to get a bunt down as well.

**This is not my opinion on one blocked punt in a year, or our bunting practices, nor is it my opinion on the practice habits of the basketball players.

This is somewhat of a TIC post. I am certainly NOT saying that Rhoades is doing anything wrong.

Even with this "repeated lack of fundamental execution", the basketball team is 9-3 against a weak schedule. Against a similarly weak schedule the football team was 3-9.

Coaching makes a difference.

People were complaining when we were winning football games as well.

My point is when we have recruited well, and we have deeper rosters we win. That includes baseball as well as football. That would include this basketball team.

And I am NOT complaining about 'repeated lack of fundamental execution' for any of our three teams, and as I pointed out in my post I have no problem with the way our basketball team is performing, or with our basketball coach.

(12-21-2016 06:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We blocked zero punts, which tied us for 59th (through 128th) in FBS; we had 1 punt blocked, which tied us for 72nd (through 112th). We blocked 1 place kick, which tied us for 71st (though 101st); we had 4 blocked, which tied us for 110th (through 124th). If you take the midpoints of those "tied with" lists, you get 94th, 92nd, 86th, and 117th, and we were a net minus 4 on kick blocks.

Rick, if you're satisfied with that, so be it. If you want Rice to field a winning team, those results won't get it done.

Who says I'm satisfied with anything? I've acknowledged our place-kicking woes. I didn't bring up place-kicking at all in my post.

I brought up punting because I consider one blocked punt in a season as a "one off", that may have occurred due to an outstanding defensive effort, but even if it was one blown block, it's still a one-off.

I still think our play in all sports is a function of the quality and depth of our rosters, and that varies year to year.

You are right, I am satisfied with the coaching of our basketball team.

Are you saying you're OK with us losing games 'to any team with a pulse' due to poor FT shooting? Are you 'satisfied'? What should be 'done' about it?

Rhoades deserves all the credit in the world for putting this team together and we ALL have reason to be optimistic heading into conference play. I make the point because I find the observation about free throw shotting ironic, NOT because I think that our basketball team has problems.

But the knock from some on this board on the 2012-14 football teams was that we beat the dregs of CUSA and that we still were 'sloppy and undisciplined' but we relied on having better athletes. I don't know about 2013 being sloppy and undisciplined, but given our NFL level talent, yes, we did had better athletes.

How precisely is that different than our much deeper basketball roster beating the teams we're beating and presumably beating most of CUSA which will also be ranked low, while losing games to the Top 50? I mean, the game thread from tonight and against some of the teams we're supposed to manhandle (in the eyes of this Board) is full of people noting sloppy play. I think it's understandable for a variety of reasons, and not really an issue.

The key to all this is that we have better players and a deeper roster this year.

I am NOT complaining, and I hope we break our NCAA drought this year. Hopefully we win against the top level of CUSA as well.

Put another way: you heard some time in the past from a coach that the book on Bailiff's teams at Texas State was that they "played hard, but were sloppy (undisciplined)" and you repeat that quite often. Reading our game threads from basketball, that sounds like a familiar description.

I don't know that it's true, but even if it is, if we end the year with 25 or more wins, or if we were to actually win conference and play in the NCAA's, who would care? I wouldn't. Because if we have better athletes who play hard, that's actually a great base to build on.

Rhoades is in his third year and his teams have shown improvement, at least this year. Bailiff just completed his tenth year and his teams have been all up and down, over the map, currently on a downward trend. If Rhoades is still around in ten years, and still has an overall losing record, and his teams are still missing free throws, then you will have a comparable situation. Right now, you don't.

And I did not hear that comment about the book on Bailiff from a coach, I heard from coaches, plural, enough of them that I give it credibility. Maybe it's easier for me to believe it because it conforms to what I see from his Rice teams. But I'd be very interested in hearing from anyone who sees something different.

As far as not caring if we won 25 games and/or won conference and/or played in the NCAA tournament, I think we'd all take that regardless of how we got there. That's pretty much how I felt about Bailiff after 2008. I didn't agree with his approach (difference, I do agree with Rhodes's approach) but as long as he could get it done that way, more power to him. Then came 2009, 2010, and 2011, when he didn't get it done, didn't come close. After the 2012-14 run, I still was not sold, but again, if he could have maintained that level despite what I think is a wrong approach, I'd have been fine. Then came 2015 and 2016, where again he couldn't maintain.

Bailiff's approach can win when he has the talent, and he wins most of the time when we out-athlete our opponents. But we're not going to out-athlete people consistently. And we're not going to win often when we don't out-athlete the other side. Several former players have stated that the championship game against Marshall was one game where we did beat a team that out-athleted us. If so, that's one time in ten years. In that same ten years, we've had way more than one loss when we failed to show up against a team that clearly did not out-athlete us.

What we need is a coach who can recruit well enough to narrow the talent gap as much as possible, and then find ways to scheme and execute well enough to overcome that gap. Bailiff has shown the ability to do the first part, but he has shown no ability to do the second.

(12-22-2016 07:39 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  What we need is a coach who can recruit well enough to narrow the talent gap as ame ten years, we've had way more than one loss when we failed to show up against a team that clearly did not out-athlete usmuch as possible, and then find ways to scheme and execute well enough to overcome that gap. Bailiff has shown the ability to do the first part, but he has shown no ability to do the second.

Recruit and scheme. sounds good to me. When we finally get to the search, do you suggest we go with OCs who have shown the scheming, a la Major, Brohm, and Herman, and hope the recruiting falls into place?

(12-22-2016 12:51 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(12-21-2016 06:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We blocked zero punts, which tied us for 59th (through 128th) in FBS; we had 1 punt blocked, which tied us for 72nd (through 112th). We blocked 1 place kick, which tied us for 71st (though 101st); we had 4 blocked, which tied us for 110th (through 124th). If you take the midpoints of those "tied with" lists, you get 94th, 92nd, 86th, and 117th, and we were a net minus 4 on kick blocks.

Rick, if you're satisfied with that, so be it. If you want Rice to field a winning team, those results won't get it done.

Who says I'm satisfied with anything? I've acknowledged our place-kicking woes. I didn't bring up place-kicking at all in my post.

I brought up punting because I consider one blocked punt in a season as a "one off", that may have occurred due to an outstanding defensive effort, but even if it was one blown block, it's still a one-off.

I still think our play in all sports is a function of the quality and depth of our rosters, and that varies year to year.

You are right, I am satisfied with the coaching of our basketball team.

Are you saying you're OK with us losing games 'to any team with a pulse' due to poor FT shooting? Are you 'satisfied'? What should be 'done' about it?

Rhoades deserves all the credit in the world for putting this team together and we ALL have reason to be optimistic heading into conference play. I make the point because I find the observation about free throw shotting ironic, NOT because I think that our basketball team has problems.

But the knock from some on this board on the 2012-14 football teams was that we beat the dregs of CUSA and that we still were 'sloppy and undisciplined' but we relied on having better athletes. I don't know about 2013 being sloppy and undisciplined, but given our NFL level talent, yes, we did had better athletes.

How precisely is that different than our much deeper basketball roster beating the teams we're beating and presumably beating most of CUSA which will also be ranked low, while losing games to the Top 50? I mean, the game thread from tonight and against some of the teams we're supposed to manhandle (in the eyes of this Board) is full of people noting sloppy play. I think it's understandable for a variety of reasons, and not really an issue.

The key to all this is that we have better players and a deeper roster this year.

I am NOT complaining, and I hope we break our NCAA drought this year. Hopefully we win against the top level of CUSA as well.

Put another way: you heard some time in the past from a coach that the book on Bailiff's teams at Texas State was that they "played hard, but were sloppy (undisciplined)" and you repeat that quite often. Reading our game threads from basketball, that sounds like a familiar description.

I don't know that it's true, but even if it is, if we end the year with 25 or more wins, or if we were to actually win conference and play in the NCAA's, who would care? I wouldn't. Because if we have better athletes who play hard, that's actually a great base to build on.

Big difference-- this basketball team is highly competitive against elite competition (on the road, no less), whereas our football team is consistently blown off the field and embarrassed whenever it faces even Top 75 (out of 128) programs. There is no comparison.

in 2+ years since Rhoades has become the coach and starting with a very bare cupboard, his teams, though outmatched at time, particularly last year, have been competitive against virtually all opponents. Perhaps, the one exception being the first couple of games last year, when the team was reeling from the loss of Marcus Jackson and Chad Lott.

Hard to say the same with football since Coach Hat, perhaps the year of the Toad.