(12-30-2016 10:40 AM)BDB5yp Wrote:  

(12-30-2016 08:55 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 08:41 PM)sterling1man Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 03:47 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Is it time for everyone to admit that the "exposure" we get from playing on Tuesday nights in November is not working to improve recruiting? If you want to argue that we need the money, fine. But that's the only advantage.

WMU is attracting recruiting classes ranked higher than any other MAC team.

NIU's recruits arguably have improved greatly since 2003 interms of getting recruits who were offered by one or more P5 schools.

Before not so long ago, it was unheard of for a college FB player to choose a MAC school over a B1G school.

Today it is no longer such a big deal. It happens every year.

I do agree that the level of NIU and MAC recruiting is not up to the level that I would wish for.

I agree that there is a much stronger revenue argument.

I do disagree that MAC school recruiting has not improved since the inception of Tuesday night games.

If recruiting is better, why aren't the teams better? The MAC should at least be winning its bowl games against the Sun Belt, CUSA , and the occasional 6-6 P5 team. Or at least not going winless. In the early 2000s the MAC had Marshall, Miami, Toledo, NIU, and BG all having good years at the same time.

Tuesday night games is not why we're winning recruits. It's the track record of winning.I think our recruiting has gotten better. Its just gotten hard to develop these young players , when you lose your coach every time you have a good season. Our coaching talent is dwindling. Every team that's had issues in the MAC has had turnover in coaching. Losing position coaches hurts too. It's the nature of the beast in the MAC. Good coaches are hard to keep. Continuity is a big deal. Maybe I'm wrong, but the talent is there if it's coached right.

But it has always been that way, in the MAC and also the Sunbelt and CUSA. Arkansas State lost their head coach 3 or 4 years in a row. So there should still be some improvement in the teams if the recruiting has gotten better.

(12-30-2016 10:40 AM)BDB5yp Wrote:  

(12-30-2016 08:55 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 08:41 PM)sterling1man Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 03:47 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Is it time for everyone to admit that the "exposure" we get from playing on Tuesday nights in November is not working to improve recruiting? If you want to argue that we need the money, fine. But that's the only advantage.

WMU is attracting recruiting classes ranked higher than any other MAC team.

NIU's recruits arguably have improved greatly since 2003 interms of getting recruits who were offered by one or more P5 schools.

Before not so long ago, it was unheard of for a college FB player to choose a MAC school over a B1G school.

Today it is no longer such a big deal. It happens every year.

I do agree that the level of NIU and MAC recruiting is not up to the level that I would wish for.

I agree that there is a much stronger revenue argument.

I do disagree that MAC school recruiting has not improved since the inception of Tuesday night games.

If recruiting is better, why aren't the teams better? The MAC should at least be winning its bowl games against the Sun Belt, CUSA , and the occasional 6-6 P5 team. Or at least not going winless. In the early 2000s the MAC had Marshall, Miami, Toledo, NIU, and BG all having good years at the same time.

Tuesday night games is not why we're winning recruits. It's the track record of winning.I think our recruiting has gotten better. Its just gotten hard to develop these young players , when you lose your coach every time you have a good season. Our coaching talent is dwindling. Every team that's had issues in the MAC has had turnover in coaching. Losing position coaches hurts too. It's the nature of the beast in the MAC. Good coaches are hard to keep. Continuity is a big deal. Maybe I'm wrong, but the talent is there if it's coached right.

But it has always been that way, in the MAC and also the Sunbelt and CUSA. Arkansas State lost their head coach 3 or 4 years in a row. So there should still be some improvement in the teams if the recruiting has gotten better. I guess I should clarify, I really mean for the MAC as a whole, since all the teams are playing weeknight games. Though it's hard to show evidence that NIU's recruiting has gotten better (might be coaching though, admittedly, that has squandered it).

(12-30-2016 10:56 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(12-30-2016 10:40 AM)BDB5yp Wrote:  Tuesday night games is not why we're winning recruits. It's the track record of winning.I think our recruiting has gotten better. Its just gotten hard to develop these young players , when you lose your coach every time you have a good season. Our coaching talent is dwindling. Every team that's had issues in the MAC has had turnover in coaching. Losing position coaches hurts too. It's the nature of the beast in the MAC. Good coaches are hard to keep. Continuity is a big deal. Maybe I'm wrong, but the talent is there if it's coached right.

The coaching continuity is definitely an issue. With a new D coor., the def. looked confused and out of place early season. There were plenty of new players, that's partly to blame, but it looked like they weren't sure who's assignments were who's. It also looked as if they changed philosophy mid-season. At first It was a sit back and prevent defense that depended on the secondary(which may have been considered a strength, while the D-line was the weakness). It looked as if they got more aggressive up front and the entire unit played a little better. Hopefully things improve all around in year 2.

You know you got a coaching problem when one of your best Quarterbacks is playing wide receiver. You mean to tell me the Quarterback coach didn't know Maddie should be number 2 behind Hare? It's ridiculous. Hope it gets better for the sake of the talent we're recruiting.....

Getting better recruits often does not lead to better records.
Look at Notre Dame Charlie Weiss.

Finally MAC teams often are thinner in talent than P5 schools.
By the end of the season , a team hit by key injuries will not necessarily be as strong
As the beginning of the season.

(12-30-2016 11:54 AM)sterling1man Wrote:  Getting better recruits often does not lead to better records.
Look at Notre Dame Charlie Weiss.

Finally MAC teams often are thinner in talent than P5 schools.
By the end of the season , a team hit by key injuries will not necessarily be as strong
As the beginning of the season.

That also has always been the case. It's hard to argue though that the entire conference has particularly bad coaches for a span of several years just at the time that recruiting happens to be better.

(12-30-2016 11:58 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(12-30-2016 11:54 AM)sterling1man Wrote:  Getting better recruits often does not lead to better records.
Look at Notre Dame Charlie Weiss.

Finally MAC teams often are thinner in talent than P5 schools.
By the end of the season , a team hit by key injuries will not necessarily be as strong
As the beginning of the season.

That also has always been the case. It's hard to argue though that the entire conference has particularly bad coaches for a span of several years just at the time that recruiting happens to be better.

Exactly. If the coaches are weaker but the players are better. It's still a wash. Like him or not Fleck has a strong coaching staff to go along with his great recruiting. If Maddie was the number 2 this year we would have won enough games to get a bowl. These guys sometimes seem clueless as to who should be on the field and when. Part of coaching is strategizing. We'll see how they handle the talent this spring and next year I guess .

(12-30-2016 12:06 PM)BDB5yp Wrote:  

(12-30-2016 11:58 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(12-30-2016 11:54 AM)sterling1man Wrote:  Getting better recruits often does not lead to better records.
Look at Notre Dame Charlie Weiss.

Finally MAC teams often are thinner in talent than P5 schools.
By the end of the season , a team hit by key injuries will not necessarily be as strong
As the beginning of the season.

That also has always been the case. It's hard to argue though that the entire conference has particularly bad coaches for a span of several years just at the time that recruiting happens to be better.

Exactly. If the coaches are weaker but the players are better. It's still a wash. Like him or not Fleck has a strong coaching staff to go along with his great recruiting. If Maddie was the number 2 this year we would have won enough games to get a bowl. These guys sometimes seem clueless as to who should be on the field and when. Part of coaching is strategizing. We'll see how they handle the talent this spring and next year I guess .

It's just hard to imagine that the entire conference (other than PJ) got worse coaching just in time to balance out the supposed increase in recruiting for several years.

In NIU's case I can see where the coaching balanced out an improvement in recruiting since we don't seem to know who to play.

Welp. Maybe next year, lol. Roughest bowl season for the MAC.