MU ATO
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RE: Wichita St
(12-18-2016 09:11 PM)HogDawg Wrote: (12-18-2016 07:20 PM)MU ATO Wrote: (12-16-2016 03:24 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: Leaked out that AAC is interested in adding WSU for basketball only.
This is a clear sign that the AAC is already feeling the pressure of the TV revenue squeeze.
If true a smart move by the AAC. If nothing else it bolsters their basketball for increasing revenue through the NCAA tournament units.
Leave the Missouri Valley Conf for the AAC???
No.
I agree with you. I fail to see what's in this move for Wichita St.
The MVC is and has been for decades an excellent basketball conference. It's produced great teams and great talent. My Mom went to Bradley U & those are some of my best memories growing up going to Bradley games and seeing Hersey Hawkins, Jim Les & other Bradley greats playing other MVC teams. WSU doesn't need to go anywhere. They are a great team already and going to the AAC doesn't do anything for their standing in the hoops world. He'll look at this past year the AAC is a conf schools are begging to leave. UCONN, Cindy, ECU Tulane, etc etc etc... Why would you want to go to that? Creighton left the MVC to go to the Big East. A move like that is totally understandable going to the AAC is idiotic.
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12-18-2016 09:33 PM |
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MTPiKapp
Socialist
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RE: Wichita St
(12-18-2016 07:49 PM)HerdZoned Wrote: (12-16-2016 11:22 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote: Thanks for the lesson...
Here's the thing, the Patriot League and Big West don't offer FBS football, which is why Army, Navy, and Hawaii can play independent, in the AAC and MWC.
Wichita State currently play in the Missouri Valley, which obviously offers D1 MBB, which is why I was suggesting they wouldn't be able to move only MBB to the AAC.
The Patriot league does play football at the IAA FCS level:
Patriot League Football:
Bucknell
Colgate
Fordham
Georgetown
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh
Excellent point...
Quote:All 10 core members participate in the NCAA's Division I for all Patriot League sports that they offer. Since not all schools sponsor every available NCAA sport, such as ice hockey and wrestling, most schools are affiliated with other collegiate conferences. Additionally, the Patriot League has a unique arrangement for football. Army is an Independent in the Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS), while Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, Lafayette, and Lehigh are members of the Patriot League's Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) conference. American, Boston University and Loyola Maryland do not sponsor football. As of the 2015 season, Navy plays FBS football in the American Athletic Conference.
Thanks for the lesson, seriously.
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12-18-2016 09:33 PM |
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MU ATO
THE ONE AND ONLY
Posts: 10,685
Joined: Dec 2003
Reputation: 281
I Root For: MU, GCU, U of I
Location: Illinois now WV
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12-18-2016 09:37 PM |
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ThreeifbyLightning
Heisman
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RE: Wichita St
(12-18-2016 09:11 PM)HogDawg Wrote: (12-18-2016 07:20 PM)MU ATO Wrote: (12-16-2016 03:24 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: Leaked out that AAC is interested in adding WSU for basketball only.
This is a clear sign that the AAC is already feeling the pressure of the TV revenue squeeze.
If true a smart move by the AAC. If nothing else it bolsters their basketball for increasing revenue through the NCAA tournament units.
Leave the Missouri Valley Conf for the AAC???
No.
I agree with you. I fail to see what's in this move for Wichita St.
The revenue from the units created in the NCAA Tournament.
I will use the simple math here and not the more complicated math from calculating the units rolling over a six year period.
The simple math tells us that since the AAC was created, they currently have 18 NCAA Tournament Units. Next year that will be worth about $4.5 million just in one year. Most of those units still have at least three more years to pay out. (In reality, the AAC will likely net over $12 million from NCAA Tournament units next year if you add the cumulative total of the previous years).
The MVC on the other hand has 12 units active over the same time period (not counting those earned prior to the AAC being established). Of those 12, eight of them were earned by Wichita St. That's a net difference just over one season of $3 million. Again, simple math and we could extract this out even further if we calculated what the future payments would look like using the rolling averages.
Simply put if you place Wichita St in the AAC, the AAC makes a lot more money as does Wichita St. That is making the assumption that Wichita St adds at least one at large bid to their conference - which probably isn't that big of stretch to see them improving that conference from a basketball perspective.
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12-18-2016 09:39 PM |
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HerdZoned
Hall of Famer
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RE: Wichita St
(12-18-2016 09:33 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote: (12-18-2016 07:49 PM)HerdZoned Wrote: (12-16-2016 11:22 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote: Thanks for the lesson...
Here's the thing, the Patriot League and Big West don't offer FBS football, which is why Army, Navy, and Hawaii can play independent, in the AAC and MWC.
Wichita State currently play in the Missouri Valley, which obviously offers D1 MBB, which is why I was suggesting they wouldn't be able to move only MBB to the AAC.
The Patriot league does play football at the IAA FCS level:
Patriot League Football:
Bucknell
Colgate
Fordham
Georgetown
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh
Excellent point...
Quote:All 10 core members participate in the NCAA's Division I for all Patriot League sports that they offer. Since not all schools sponsor every available NCAA sport, such as ice hockey and wrestling, most schools are affiliated with other collegiate conferences. Additionally, the Patriot League has a unique arrangement for football. Army is an Independent in the Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS), while Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, Lafayette, and Lehigh are members of the Patriot League's Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) conference. American, Boston University and Loyola Maryland do not sponsor football. As of the 2015 season, Navy plays FBS football in the American Athletic Conference.
Thanks for the lesson, seriously.
For being nothing but a complete and udder DICK... Welcome to my iggy button. What a *****
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12-18-2016 10:26 PM |
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cotton1991
Heisman
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Location: MasonCity North Iowa
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RE: Wichita St
(12-18-2016 07:20 PM)MU ATO Wrote: Leave the Missouri Valley Conf for the AAC???
No.
Don't know why you'd be shocked that WSU would consider the move. I think most bball folks would think it's a good one. Maybe you're thinking of the old MVC. At one point, Cincy, Louisville, Creighton, and Memphis were all members along with conference-mate North Texas. Bradley hasn't been to the tourney in over 10 years. UNI has a great program, but even lowly Tulane was able to steal their AD. Wichita State fans seem almost universally in favor and excited about any move to the AAC.
http://shockernet.net/forum/showthread.p...me/page195
The AAC had 4 tournament teams last year. The MVC had 2. The AAC is down this year but Massey still ranks it 7th in bball behind the Pac10 and ahead of the A10. The MVC is ranked at 10. But WSU has done fine in the MVC so they may decide if it's not broke don't fix it, who knows?
Having said that, I don't see any reason to add WSU. The AAC doesn't need to pump up its basketball by addition. It presently has some great programs which need to get back on track.
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2016 06:54 AM by cotton1991.)
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12-19-2016 03:29 AM |
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ThreeifbyLightning
Heisman
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Location:
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RE: Wichita St
(12-18-2016 10:26 PM)HerdZoned Wrote: (12-18-2016 09:33 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote: (12-18-2016 07:49 PM)HerdZoned Wrote: (12-16-2016 11:22 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote: Thanks for the lesson...
Here's the thing, the Patriot League and Big West don't offer FBS football, which is why Army, Navy, and Hawaii can play independent, in the AAC and MWC.
Wichita State currently play in the Missouri Valley, which obviously offers D1 MBB, which is why I was suggesting they wouldn't be able to move only MBB to the AAC.
The Patriot league does play football at the IAA FCS level:
Patriot League Football:
Bucknell
Colgate
Fordham
Georgetown
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh
Excellent point...
Quote:All 10 core members participate in the NCAA's Division I for all Patriot League sports that they offer. Since not all schools sponsor every available NCAA sport, such as ice hockey and wrestling, most schools are affiliated with other collegiate conferences. Additionally, the Patriot League has a unique arrangement for football. Army is an Independent in the Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS), while Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, Lafayette, and Lehigh are members of the Patriot League's Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) conference. American, Boston University and Loyola Maryland do not sponsor football. As of the 2015 season, Navy plays FBS football in the American Athletic Conference.
Thanks for the lesson, seriously.
For being nothing but a complete and udder DICK... Welcome to my iggy button. What a *****
That's just how he rolls.
The best part is people that think they are cool trying to correct you on the I-AA vs. FCS or use of FBS for I-A.
When the NCAA did this it was par for their ongoing stupidity. I refused right then and there to never use it. I will continue to call it I-A and I-AA until I die.
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12-19-2016 07:48 AM |
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MTPiKapp
Socialist
Posts: 16,857
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I Root For: MiddleTennessee
Location: Roswell, GA
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RE: Wichita St
(12-19-2016 07:48 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: (12-18-2016 10:26 PM)HerdZoned Wrote: (12-18-2016 09:33 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote: (12-18-2016 07:49 PM)HerdZoned Wrote: (12-16-2016 11:22 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote: Thanks for the lesson...
Here's the thing, the Patriot League and Big West don't offer FBS football, which is why Army, Navy, and Hawaii can play independent, in the AAC and MWC.
Wichita State currently play in the Missouri Valley, which obviously offers D1 MBB, which is why I was suggesting they wouldn't be able to move only MBB to the AAC.
The Patriot league does play football at the IAA FCS level:
Patriot League Football:
Bucknell
Colgate
Fordham
Georgetown
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh
Excellent point...
Quote:All 10 core members participate in the NCAA's Division I for all Patriot League sports that they offer. Since not all schools sponsor every available NCAA sport, such as ice hockey and wrestling, most schools are affiliated with other collegiate conferences. Additionally, the Patriot League has a unique arrangement for football. Army is an Independent in the Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS), while Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, Lafayette, and Lehigh are members of the Patriot League's Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) conference. American, Boston University and Loyola Maryland do not sponsor football. As of the 2015 season, Navy plays FBS football in the American Athletic Conference.
Thanks for the lesson, seriously.
For being nothing but a complete and udder DICK... Welcome to my iggy button. What a *****
That's just how he rolls.
The best part is people that think they are cool trying to correct you on the I-AA vs. FCS or use of FBS for I-A.
When the NCAA did this it was par for their ongoing stupidity. I refused right then and there to never use it. I will continue to call it I-A and I-AA until I die.
It's not about correcting 1-AA as FCS, yes I did that but that was just to maintain consistency throughout the post.
To recap what happened, I pointed out the reason that Army, Navy and Hawaii could play football in a different conference(or independent) was because the conference they played the rest of their sports in do not sponsor FBS football.
I have no idea why, but Herdzoned felt the need to correct me or point out that the Patriot league does play football at the FCS(1-AA if you prefer)level(perhaps because the Big West does not?) but that is irrelevant to the point I was making, that they do not offer FBS(1-A if you prefer) football, which is what allows them to play in the AAC or independent.
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2016 09:34 AM by MTPiKapp.)
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12-19-2016 09:30 AM |
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MTPiKapp
Socialist
Posts: 16,857
Joined: Dec 2007
Reputation: 716
I Root For: MiddleTennessee
Location: Roswell, GA
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RE: Wichita St
(12-18-2016 10:26 PM)HerdZoned Wrote: (12-18-2016 09:33 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote: (12-18-2016 07:49 PM)HerdZoned Wrote: (12-16-2016 11:22 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote: Thanks for the lesson...
Here's the thing, the Patriot League and Big West don't offer FBS football, which is why Army, Navy, and Hawaii can play independent, in the AAC and MWC.
Wichita State currently play in the Missouri Valley, which obviously offers D1 MBB, which is why I was suggesting they wouldn't be able to move only MBB to the AAC.
The Patriot league does play football at the IAA FCS level:
Patriot League Football:
Bucknell
Colgate
Fordham
Georgetown
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh
Excellent point...
Quote:All 10 core members participate in the NCAA's Division I for all Patriot League sports that they offer. Since not all schools sponsor every available NCAA sport, such as ice hockey and wrestling, most schools are affiliated with other collegiate conferences. Additionally, the Patriot League has a unique arrangement for football. Army is an Independent in the Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS), while Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, Lafayette, and Lehigh are members of the Patriot League's Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) conference. American, Boston University and Loyola Maryland do not sponsor football. As of the 2015 season, Navy plays FBS football in the American Athletic Conference.
Thanks for the lesson, seriously.
For being nothing but a complete and udder DICK... Welcome to my iggy button. What a *****
Say it ain't so...
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12-19-2016 09:32 AM |
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TechRocks
Heisman
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I Root For: Tech
Location:
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RE: Wichita St
(12-16-2016 03:28 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: (12-16-2016 03:27 PM)Psychored Wrote: (12-16-2016 03:24 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: Leaked out that AAC is interested in adding WSU for basketball only.
This is a clear sign that the AAC is already feeling the pressure of the TV revenue squeeze.
Then why would they want another mouth to feed?
If it's basketball only they would get a smaller percentage than the rest of the full members and would ostensibly bring more value to the league's contract than they would have to pay out to Wichita St.
Well, the more teams that make the big dance the greater the revenue to share among the rest.
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12-19-2016 09:56 AM |
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TechRocks
Heisman
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I Root For: Tech
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RE: Wichita St
(12-17-2016 02:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote: That said, the Navy contract with CBS-Sports expires in 2018. It's possible the AAC, which has enjoyed much higher than expected tv ratings, might be positioning themselves for an early renegotiation/extension. The MAC used the tactic and came away with a pretty solid raise.
Meanwhile, our commissioner was busy negotiating this.
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12-19-2016 10:02 AM |
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Attackcoog
Moderator
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RE: Wichita St
(12-18-2016 09:39 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: (12-18-2016 09:11 PM)HogDawg Wrote: (12-18-2016 07:20 PM)MU ATO Wrote: (12-16-2016 03:24 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: Leaked out that AAC is interested in adding WSU for basketball only.
This is a clear sign that the AAC is already feeling the pressure of the TV revenue squeeze.
If true a smart move by the AAC. If nothing else it bolsters their basketball for increasing revenue through the NCAA tournament units.
Leave the Missouri Valley Conf for the AAC???
No.
I agree with you. I fail to see what's in this move for Wichita St.
The revenue from the units created in the NCAA Tournament.
I will use the simple math here and not the more complicated math from calculating the units rolling over a six year period.
The simple math tells us that since the AAC was created, they currently have 18 NCAA Tournament Units. Next year that will be worth about $4.5 million just in one year. Most of those units still have at least three more years to pay out. (In reality, the AAC will likely net over $12 million from NCAA Tournament units next year if you add the cumulative total of the previous years).
The MVC on the other hand has 12 units active over the same time period (not counting those earned prior to the AAC being established). Of those 12, eight of them were earned by Wichita St. That's a net difference just over one season of $3 million. Again, simple math and we could extract this out even further if we calculated what the future payments would look like using the rolling averages.
Simply put if you place Wichita St in the AAC, the AAC makes a lot more money as does Wichita St. That is making the assumption that Wichita St adds at least one at large bid to their conference - which probably isn't that big of stretch to see them improving that conference from a basketball perspective.
Good point. I also remember the presidents letter that was released to their fans a while back. They had commissioned a report regarding the future long term direction of WSU athletics. The mention of football got all the attention. But a significant portion of the presidents comments regarding that future centered on something that had little to do with what we think of as athletics.
He spoke about a desire to grow their enrollment. Part of the effort to increase enrollment was to be associated with, and to be seen as peers with, large public schools that are similar or superior to WSU with respect to research classifications. Only a couple of MVC schools are "large publics" with enrollments 20K+ and most MVC schools are ranked below WSU in research classification. So, moving to a conference where most of the members are top 200 schools and are equal to or superior to WSU in research classification would be attractive to WSU's leadership.
(This post was last modified: 12-20-2016 02:14 AM by Attackcoog.)
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12-20-2016 02:05 AM |
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Funslinger
All American
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RE: Wichita St
(12-19-2016 07:48 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: (12-18-2016 10:26 PM)HerdZoned Wrote: (12-18-2016 09:33 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote: (12-18-2016 07:49 PM)HerdZoned Wrote: (12-16-2016 11:22 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote: Thanks for the lesson...
Here's the thing, the Patriot League and Big West don't offer FBS football, which is why Army, Navy, and Hawaii can play independent, in the AAC and MWC.
Wichita State currently play in the Missouri Valley, which obviously offers D1 MBB, which is why I was suggesting they wouldn't be able to move only MBB to the AAC.
The Patriot league does play football at the IAA FCS level:
Patriot League Football:
Bucknell
Colgate
Fordham
Georgetown
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh
Excellent point...
Quote:All 10 core members participate in the NCAA's Division I for all Patriot League sports that they offer. Since not all schools sponsor every available NCAA sport, such as ice hockey and wrestling, most schools are affiliated with other collegiate conferences. Additionally, the Patriot League has a unique arrangement for football. Army is an Independent in the Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS), while Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, Lafayette, and Lehigh are members of the Patriot League's Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) conference. American, Boston University and Loyola Maryland do not sponsor football. As of the 2015 season, Navy plays FBS football in the American Athletic Conference.
Thanks for the lesson, seriously.
For being nothing but a complete and udder DICK... Welcome to my iggy button. What a *****
That's just how he rolls.
The best part is people that think they are cool trying to correct you on the I-AA vs. FCS or use of FBS for I-A.
When the NCAA did this it was par for their ongoing stupidity. I refused right then and there to never use it. I will continue to call it I-A and I-AA until I die.
In that case, why use I-A and I-AA? They were originally University Division and Small College Division.
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12-21-2016 06:06 AM |
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