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How to possibly save the Big 12
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lumberpack4 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
(12-18-2016 11:24 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(12-13-2016 12:22 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(12-13-2016 12:00 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  
(12-13-2016 10:05 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  It seems to me that having only 40 million people in your media footprint is the problem for the B12.

Depending on how you measure it the ACC has 115-130 million people in their media footprint
The B10 has 105-110 million
The SEC has about 100
The P2 has about 75 million
But the B12 only has about 40 million

This dearth of population is the big issue in my opinion.

I've seen this list before and I think this is oversimplified and even misleading. Some of those "footprints" are counted twice in 2 different conferences. And some states have a stronger football culture than others, but yet the population is counted the same. And importantly, it has a big Texas footprint, which in terms of recruiting + population may be the most strongest football state of all. The Big 12 is clearly the smallest conference and has a smallish footprint, but the population gap with other conferences can be overstated.

But # of TV sets does matter to net works and advertisers. Go East young man, go East ! 07-coffee3

I find the charge to go East interesting when CA is the largest state and affinity maps show has among the lowest affiliation rates. The teams aren't ready but the Big 12 going into CA by adding SDSU and Fresno would pull significant TV ratings. This will be especially true if the Chargers move to LA.

With ABC, ESPN, CBS, Fox, and NBC you have about 10-12 games that are needed to fill any single market. California already is impacted by 6 schools - USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Cal of course, but also Oregon and ASU. As big as those markets are, they don't need more inside the state content. Packing that state recreates the same issues that you have inside North Carolina or inside Texas.

It doesn't matter who is first, second, or third in a media market because there is so much time to fill, but once you drop to 4th, 5th, and 6th, it does matter because you are now low enough to have viewers do something other than watch, or watch a more national game.

It's the P12 and Texahomas interest to merge (Texas, OU, Kansas, and one other)
12-18-2016 12:00 PM
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Big Frog II Offline
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Post: #62
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
Aren't TV ratings more important than how many people are in a state?
12-18-2016 02:27 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #63
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
(12-15-2016 08:39 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  My solution:

Call up the AAC, offer to trade WVU AND ISU for the AAC-WEST.

This isn't fantasy football. You don't get to trade teams.
12-18-2016 02:32 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #64
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
(12-13-2016 03:37 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  ... Luck is a man who is not a afraid to grab the proverbial bull by the horns, and I think he would be someone to stand up to both Fenves & Boren (Texas & OU's presidents)...

I'd put my money on UT & OU calling his bluff and walking.
12-18-2016 02:55 PM
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Sactowndog Offline
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Post: #65
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
(12-18-2016 12:00 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(12-18-2016 11:24 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(12-13-2016 12:22 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(12-13-2016 12:00 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  
(12-13-2016 10:05 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  It seems to me that having only 40 million people in your media footprint is the problem for the B12.

Depending on how you measure it the ACC has 115-130 million people in their media footprint
The B10 has 105-110 million
The SEC has about 100
The P2 has about 75 million
But the B12 only has about 40 million

This dearth of population is the big issue in my opinion.

I've seen this list before and I think this is oversimplified and even misleading. Some of those "footprints" are counted twice in 2 different conferences. And some states have a stronger football culture than others, but yet the population is counted the same. And importantly, it has a big Texas footprint, which in terms of recruiting + population may be the most strongest football state of all. The Big 12 is clearly the smallest conference and has a smallish footprint, but the population gap with other conferences can be overstated.

But # of TV sets does matter to net works and advertisers. Go East young man, go East ! 07-coffee3

I find the charge to go East interesting when CA is the largest state and affinity maps show has among the lowest affiliation rates. The teams aren't ready but the Big 12 going into CA by adding SDSU and Fresno would pull significant TV ratings. This will be especially true if the Chargers move to LA.

With ABC, ESPN, CBS, Fox, and NBC you have about 10-12 games that are needed to fill any single market. California already is impacted by 6 schools - USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Cal of course, but also Oregon and ASU. As big as those markets are, they don't need more inside the state content. Packing that state recreates the same issues that you have inside North Carolina or inside Texas.

It doesn't matter who is first, second, or third in a media market because there is so much time to fill, but once you drop to 4th, 5th, and 6th, it does matter because you are now low enough to have viewers do something other than watch, or watch a more national game.

It's the P12 and Texahomas interest to merge (Texas, OU, Kansas, and one other)

Dude have you ever actually been to California? Impacted by ASU? Are you kidding me? ASU has no play or interest in the state. Oregon has a small amount of front runner interest but little else. Fresno is strongest from Visalia to Merced. San Diego State has more interest in its area. Cal and Stanford dominate the Bay Area and little else. I live in Sac and you rarely hear anything about PAC-12 teams in the paper or local sports talk radio. It's Pro or High School. There is a massive void at the collegiate level.
12-18-2016 04:47 PM
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Sactowndog Offline
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Post: #66
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
(12-18-2016 02:27 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  Aren't TV ratings more important than how many people are in a state?

They are but you forget how many people live in the valley and San Diego. Should a Valley or San Diego team have a college team that could compete on equal footing with the teams from the Bay Area or LA you might be surprised how many people rallied to their cause.
12-18-2016 05:05 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
(12-18-2016 12:00 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(12-18-2016 11:24 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(12-13-2016 12:22 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(12-13-2016 12:00 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  
(12-13-2016 10:05 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  It seems to me that having only 40 million people in your media footprint is the problem for the B12.

Depending on how you measure it the ACC has 115-130 million people in their media footprint
The B10 has 105-110 million
The SEC has about 100
The P2 has about 75 million
But the B12 only has about 40 million

This dearth of population is the big issue in my opinion.

I've seen this list before and I think this is oversimplified and even misleading. Some of those "footprints" are counted twice in 2 different conferences. And some states have a stronger football culture than others, but yet the population is counted the same. And importantly, it has a big Texas footprint, which in terms of recruiting + population may be the most strongest football state of all. The Big 12 is clearly the smallest conference and has a smallish footprint, but the population gap with other conferences can be overstated.

But # of TV sets does matter to net works and advertisers. Go East young man, go East ! 07-coffee3

I find the charge to go East interesting when CA is the largest state and affinity maps show has among the lowest affiliation rates. The teams aren't ready but the Big 12 going into CA by adding SDSU and Fresno would pull significant TV ratings. This will be especially true if the Chargers move to LA.

With ABC, ESPN, CBS, Fox, and NBC you have about 10-12 games that are needed to fill any single market. California already is impacted by 6 schools - USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Cal of course, but also Oregon and ASU. As big as those markets are, they don't need more inside the state content. Packing that state recreates the same issues that you have inside North Carolina or inside Texas.

It doesn't matter who is first, second, or third in a media market because there is so much time to fill, but once you drop to 4th, 5th, and 6th, it does matter because you are now low enough to have viewers do something other than watch, or watch a more national game.

It's the P12 and Texahomas interest to merge (Texas, OU, Kansas, and one other)

ASU fans in Cali? Haha...you've never been to California or Arizona either. More Iowa Hawkeye fans in Arizona than there are Sun Devil fans. How is it possible that you've never been out West?
Cheers!
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2016 07:37 PM by billybobby777.)
12-18-2016 07:31 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
(12-18-2016 07:31 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(12-18-2016 12:00 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(12-18-2016 11:24 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(12-13-2016 12:22 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(12-13-2016 12:00 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  I've seen this list before and I think this is oversimplified and even misleading. Some of those "footprints" are counted twice in 2 different conferences. And some states have a stronger football culture than others, but yet the population is counted the same. And importantly, it has a big Texas footprint, which in terms of recruiting + population may be the most strongest football state of all. The Big 12 is clearly the smallest conference and has a smallish footprint, but the population gap with other conferences can be overstated.

But # of TV sets does matter to net works and advertisers. Go East young man, go East ! 07-coffee3

I find the charge to go East interesting when CA is the largest state and affinity maps show has among the lowest affiliation rates. The teams aren't ready but the Big 12 going into CA by adding SDSU and Fresno would pull significant TV ratings. This will be especially true if the Chargers move to LA.

With ABC, ESPN, CBS, Fox, and NBC you have about 10-12 games that are needed to fill any single market. California already is impacted by 6 schools - USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Cal of course, but also Oregon and ASU. As big as those markets are, they don't need more inside the state content. Packing that state recreates the same issues that you have inside North Carolina or inside Texas.

It doesn't matter who is first, second, or third in a media market because there is so much time to fill, but once you drop to 4th, 5th, and 6th, it does matter because you are now low enough to have viewers do something other than watch, or watch a more national game.

It's the P12 and Texahomas interest to merge (Texas, OU, Kansas, and one other)

ASU fans in Cali? Haha...you've never been to California or Arizona either. More Iowa Hawkeye fans in Arizona than there are Sun Devil fans. How is it possible that you've never been out West?
Cheers!

Actually I've spent the better part of six to eight months out west be it Hawaii, Alaska, Washington, Idaho, BC, Alberta, Yukon, Hawaii, Arizona, NM, Utah, etc., etc.

ASU has 400,000 living alums, and another 82K enrolled, where do you think a good chunk of these graduates go to get a job? It damn sure isn't Santa Fe, Green River, or Boise - they are going to SF, SJ, LA, SD, Denver, etc., etc. How many of ASU's football games were not on television in SD, LA, SF, SJ, Sacramento, etc., etc? Answer = Zero

You are confusing what is the number one draw in the market for a draw in the market.
12-18-2016 08:40 PM
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Sactowndog Offline
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Post: #69
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
(12-18-2016 08:40 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(12-18-2016 07:31 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(12-18-2016 12:00 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(12-18-2016 11:24 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(12-13-2016 12:22 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  But # of TV sets does matter to net works and advertisers. Go East young man, go East ! 07-coffee3

I find the charge to go East interesting when CA is the largest state and affinity maps show has among the lowest affiliation rates. The teams aren't ready but the Big 12 going into CA by adding SDSU and Fresno would pull significant TV ratings. This will be especially true if the Chargers move to LA.

With ABC, ESPN, CBS, Fox, and NBC you have about 10-12 games that are needed to fill any single market. California already is impacted by 6 schools - USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Cal of course, but also Oregon and ASU. As big as those markets are, they don't need more inside the state content. Packing that state recreates the same issues that you have inside North Carolina or inside Texas.

It doesn't matter who is first, second, or third in a media market because there is so much time to fill, but once you drop to 4th, 5th, and 6th, it does matter because you are now low enough to have viewers do something other than watch, or watch a more national game.

It's the P12 and Texahomas interest to merge (Texas, OU, Kansas, and one other)

ASU fans in Cali? Haha...you've never been to California or Arizona either. More Iowa Hawkeye fans in Arizona than there are Sun Devil fans. How is it possible that you've never been out West?
Cheers!

Actually I've spent the better part of six to eight months out west be it Hawaii, Alaska, Washington, Idaho, BC, Alberta, Yukon, Hawaii, Arizona, NM, Utah, etc., etc.

ASU has 400,000 living alums, and another 82K enrolled, where do you think a good chunk of these graduates go to get a job? It damn sure isn't Santa Fe, Green River, or Boise - they are going to SF, SJ, LA, SD, Denver, etc., etc. How many of ASU's football games were not on television in SD, LA, SF, SJ, Sacramento, etc., etc? Answer = Zero

You are confusing what is the number one draw in the market for a draw in the market.

And I have lived in Sacramento for 21 years. In college sports no one is a draw in this area. How many Ag studies does ASU have?
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2016 10:16 PM by Sactowndog.)
12-18-2016 10:16 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #70
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
(12-18-2016 11:37 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(12-14-2016 01:55 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
  • RK Footprint Conference
    1 93,024,131 Big Ten
    2 91,304,127 SEC
    3 67,806,747 ACC
    4 62,810,305 Pac 12
    5 41,598,136 n.Big East
    6 37,718,302 Big XII
    7 33,774,929 AAC
    8 27,995,648 Conf USA
    9 25,454,065 Mtn West


This is how it would look if you included the entire state where each school is located
  • RK By state Conference
    1 110,838,029 ACC
    2 102,855,156 AAC
    3 93,024,131 Big Ten
    4 91,304,127 SEC
    5 89,059,323 CUSA
    6 80,568,070 N.BE
    7 62,810,305 Pac 12
    8 54,038,399 MWC
    9 37,718,302 Big XII

How do you count markets? For example, how did you assign the Sac-Stockton-Modesto market? Or the Redding market? Or Bakersfield? If you gave the PAC full State counts how do you justify that when the affinity maps don't show it nor do the headings on the newspapers?

I have them all listed on my spreadsheet. But it's too long to list here. Yes I have the entire state of California for the PAC 12, Because the cover enough of the state (more than 50%) as primary teams, and have a big chunk of area where one of them is second or third, to get the nudge. And I give zero input to the NY times affinity maps, based purely on where they get their data (FB likes). I would agree that portions of western PA don't appear to be highly concentrated Big Ten, but again it's more than 50% of the state where they are primary, and another big chunk where they may be number 2. Plus the Big Ten Network distribution, and ability to so do in that area at full in market coverage, make it a hard point to argue. And what is this "noozpaper" thing you mention? 03-lmfao

With most college programming now national, instead of regional coverage, it is harder to clearly define who is what, especially with syndication going by the wayside, I'd describe it as if all of an instate or in region teams' games are available in your area, and you have a large following, even as the secondary team, that is enough to claim for your map, so long as you ALSO have a primary market to join it to. Meaning, you can't just be secondary everywhere. You need a primary market, and then you can also claim your secondary markets. If big enough you can claim being third in a market. After that, not really. In the case of California, the markets are so big, that the areas you asked about, even as the secondary teams in some markets, combined with their primary markets, they pretty much cover the entire state. But it doesn't mean others don't also have claims to some metro areas.
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2016 02:45 PM by adcorbett.)
12-19-2016 02:28 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #71
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
(12-18-2016 02:27 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  Aren't TV ratings more important than how many people are in a state?

At the end of the day, yes that is what matters. However local population is a good base for potential viewers, that is used to sell TV ads.
12-19-2016 02:58 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #72
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
Correct me if I'm wrong but it's not like the B12 is killing it in the national ratings either. Heck it's not even killing it in all major Texas cities.

That's the Achilles heel of that conference: It is only relevant in the Texas/Oklahoma footprint and only needs 2 of its 10 teams to deliver the small bit of product it offers to TV.
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2016 04:25 PM by 10thMountain.)
12-19-2016 04:23 PM
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EvilVodka Offline
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Post: #73
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
BIG XII WEST
Texas
Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU
BYU
New Mexico


BIG XII EAST

Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
West Virginia


How hard is that?
12-20-2016 03:48 PM
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jaredf29 Offline
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Post: #74
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
How to fix theB12? Fire everyone in charge of running the conference and tell the other 8 schools to find their boy parts and stand up to the big 2.
12-20-2016 06:24 PM
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JHS55 Offline
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Post: #75
How to possibly save the Big 12
News flash !!! Kick Texas out of b12 and bam !, whamoI! Just like that the b12 is a go
Nebraska would come running back like fat pigs after some spilled corn
Texas A&M would crawl on broken glass
And kick Baylor out too
Houston comes in too
Arkansas says Iam home sick I want to come home
12-20-2016 09:07 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #76
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
Don't drink and post.

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12-21-2016 12:18 AM
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Insane_Baboon Offline
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Post: #77
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
(12-20-2016 09:07 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  News flash !!! Kick Texas out of b12 and bam !, whamoI! Just like that the b12 is a go
Nebraska would come running back like fat pigs after some spilled corn
Texas A&M would crawl on broken glass
And kick Baylor out too
Houston comes in too
Arkansas says Iam home sick I want to come home

03-lmfao
12-21-2016 12:25 AM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #78
RE: How to possibly save the Big 12
(12-20-2016 09:07 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  News flash !!! Kick Texas out of b12 and bam !, whamoI! Just like that the b12 is a go
Nebraska would come running back like fat pigs after some spilled corn
Texas A&M would crawl on broken glass
And kick Baylor out too
Houston comes in too
Arkansas says Iam home sick I want to come home

Cocaine is a helluva drug man....a helluva drug!
12-21-2016 09:10 AM
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JHS55 Offline
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Post: #79
How to possibly save the Big 12
I would not know...
I was just joking, not even drinking
I am just a standard issue college football fan
12-21-2016 08:39 PM
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JHS55 Offline
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Post: #80
How to possibly save the Big 12
I will say the big12 should kick out Texas and Baylor then add 4 or 6 teams
12-21-2016 08:42 PM
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