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But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
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ken d Offline
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Post: #21
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-12-2016 04:07 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Emphasis on football is important for football success.

This.
12-12-2016 06:34 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #22
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-12-2016 06:14 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 06:05 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 04:55 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Agree pretty strongly with OP. IPTAY is a huge part of Clemson's success. I wish GT would go back to the how things were setup before Dan Radakovich started the TECH Fund (a mandatory donation required to get good tickets at football games) and have the Alexander-Tharpe Fund once again be the be-all end-all for non-ticket sale income to the GTAA. The way the A-T Fund is run feels bush league compared to IPTAY.

Just about everybody else does as well. There's a reason that IPTAY is considered the gold standard of booster organizations.

Gold standard? You're not in the same zip code with Stanford.

Yes, the gold standard. Stanford is a completely different animal due to the relative wealth and number of their alumni so when other booster organizations want to improve themselves they come to Clemson and study how IPTAY is organized and operates.

Name one thing Clemson has wanted athletically that it hasn't been able to pay for. On signing day this year we will have just in a year's time opened a new baseball operations facility, a reconstructed basketball arena, and a new football operations center.
12-12-2016 06:37 PM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-12-2016 11:51 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  Norm Wood ‏@normwood 35m35 minutes ago

Babcock said #Hokies' athletic budget of $80 million has fallen to 10th out of 15 ACC schools and 40th among Power 5 schools.

My point is that there's a wrong assumption that big football stadiums equal big athletic department budgets. Contributions are a big, big part of the equation, probably a lot bigger than football attendance. Most people who post on sports message boards don't make contributions so they underestimate their importance.

Not me. That is a huge reason why ND is not part of a football conference.

Big alumni donors have made it no secret that they would withhold millions in contributions if ND's leaders made the decision to join a conference for football.
(This post was last modified: 12-12-2016 07:16 PM by TerryD.)
12-12-2016 07:12 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #24
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-12-2016 03:59 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  i think Clemson has a separate athletic endowment. Maybe that is what IPTAY is. but i never cared much about money as it pertains to college athletic programs. if they give me a share of the profits i would be interested.

That's exactly what IPTAY is.
12-12-2016 08:35 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #25
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-12-2016 11:51 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  Norm Wood ‏@normwood 35m35 minutes ago

Babcock said #Hokies' athletic budget of $80 million has fallen to 10th out of 15 ACC schools and 40th among Power 5 schools.

My point is that there's a wrong assumption that big football stadiums equal big athletic department budgets. Contributions are a big, big part of the equation, probably a lot bigger than football attendance. Most people who post on sports message boards don't make contributions so they underestimate their importance.


Speak for yourself dookie. I'm a 40 year contributor to the Rams Club.
12-12-2016 08:37 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #26
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-12-2016 08:37 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 11:51 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  Norm Wood ‏@normwood 35m35 minutes ago

Babcock said #Hokies' athletic budget of $80 million has fallen to 10th out of 15 ACC schools and 40th among Power 5 schools.

My point is that there's a wrong assumption that big football stadiums equal big athletic department budgets. Contributions are a big, big part of the equation, probably a lot bigger than football attendance. Most people who post on sports message boards don't make contributions so they underestimate their importance.


Speak for yourself dookie. I'm a 40 year contributor to the Rams Club.

Don't worry. It's never too late to see the light.

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12-12-2016 08:44 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-12-2016 11:51 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  Norm Wood ‏@normwood 35m35 minutes ago

Babcock said #Hokies' athletic budget of $80 million has fallen to 10th out of 15 ACC schools and 40th among Power 5 schools.

My point is that there's a wrong assumption that big football stadiums equal big athletic department budgets. Contributions are a big, big part of the equation, probably a lot bigger than football attendance. Most people who post on sports message boards don't make contributions so they underestimate their importance.

Hokies need to invest enough money in their basketball program to make it a money maker like Duke, Louisville , North Carolina, and Syracuse have done. 07-coffee3
12-13-2016 12:14 PM
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Indytarheel Offline
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Post: #28
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
Seems like Buzz has righted the ship for Va Tech and although it is early, you can not deny the early success this hire is having. Now, is it sustainable is the question. Can he get recruits to Blacksburg? If they make the tourney this season, I think Buzz will have them in it on a more regular basis.

As far my Alma Mater, things are going to get very interesting if the seating arrangements are changed in the Dean Dome. Make no mistake that Roy isn't too please with the sterile atmosphere and the fact that the students are not surrounding court in the lower bowl. Aside from the high donor seats at mid court and on the first and second row, students need to be surrounding the court. When private dollars pay for the building of the structure, the school is extremely careful not to piss off the donors. If they replace the Dome with a smaller venue instead of remodeling it, things will get very interesting. For football, the seats need to be replaced or build another stadium at a site that can accommodate tailgating.
12-13-2016 01:04 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-13-2016 01:04 PM)Indytarheel Wrote:  Seems like Buzz has righted the ship for Va Tech and although it is early, you can not deny the early success this hire is having. Now, is it sustainable is the question. Can he get recruits to Blacksburg? If they make the tourney this season, I think Buzz will have them in it on a more regular basis.

As far my Alma Mater, things are going to get very interesting if the seating arrangements are changed in the Dean Dome. Make no mistake that Roy isn't too please with the sterile atmosphere and the fact that the students are not surrounding court in the lower bowl. Aside from the high donor seats at mid court and on the first and second row, students need to be surrounding the court. When private dollars pay for the building of the structure, the school is extremely careful not to piss off the donors. If they replace the Dome with a smaller venue instead of remodeling it, things will get very interesting. For football, the seats need to be replaced or build another stadium at a site that can accommodate tailgating.

Abandon Kenan? To go where out toward Finley Golf Course - never happen.
12-13-2016 01:16 PM
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H.U.S.T.L.E. Offline
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Post: #30
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-13-2016 12:14 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 11:51 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  Norm Wood ‏@normwood 35m35 minutes ago

Babcock said #Hokies' athletic budget of $80 million has fallen to 10th out of 15 ACC schools and 40th among Power 5 schools.

My point is that there's a wrong assumption that big football stadiums equal big athletic department budgets. Contributions are a big, big part of the equation, probably a lot bigger than football attendance. Most people who post on sports message boards don't make contributions so they underestimate their importance.

Hokies need to invest enough money in their basketball program to make it a money maker like Duke, Louisville , North Carolina, and Syracuse have done. 07-coffee3

I'm not sure how serious you're being here, but I'll bite - men's basketball has certainly seen more investment since Babcock's arrival.

The hiring of Buzz Williams was mostly seen as a coup for Virginia Tech, regardless of Buzz's motivations that seemed puzzling to many. In year 3, the program is already seeing dividends.

As far as Cassell Coliseum goes... yes, it's an old building and the athletic department is doing its best to maximize revenues there. There's little luxury seating options, but they implemented courtside "boxes" for donors willing to shell out that kind of cash (much to the chagrin and grousing of media members, who were moved to a new section behind one of the baskets). Additionally, the plan is to replace the old wooden seating over the next couple of years with new, wider, more comfortable seating.

Basketball in Blacksburg is a tough nut to crack. VT is never going to compete for the elite recruits in the country and geography doesn't make things any easier. It helps to have the right guy in charge, and I believe they've found that. Buzz is a guy who's proven he can develop talent (especially wings) into NBA caliber players, and that's reflected in the type of team he's building at VT.

Additionally, the majority of the alumni base is at least 3 hours from Blacksburg, which makes it incredibly hard to fill up the stands for midweek games. A winning program will mitigate a lot of the issues associated with basketball at Virginia Tech, and I feel confident that we're on our way there.
12-13-2016 01:18 PM
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nole Offline
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Post: #31
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
"My point is that there's a wrong assumption that big football stadiums equal big athletic department budgets"

This assumption is incorrect. Look at the top 10 athletic budgets. Smallest football stadium is 86K.
12-13-2016 03:58 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #32
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-13-2016 03:58 PM)nole Wrote:  "My point is that there's a wrong assumption that big football stadiums equal big athletic department budgets"

This assumption is incorrect. Look at the top 10 athletic budgets. Smallest football stadium is 86K.

Now look at the Top 10 athletic endowments. Which, unlike fans in seats, give money every single year no matter what happens.
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2016 04:25 PM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
12-13-2016 04:24 PM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #33
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-13-2016 03:58 PM)nole Wrote:  "My point is that there's a wrong assumption that big football stadiums equal big athletic department budgets"

This assumption is incorrect. Look at the top 10 athletic budgets. Smallest football stadium is 86K.

There are also schools with good sized stadiums and attendance that don't seem to translate to the level of financial success that you'd expect.

I will pick on East Carolina, whose fans always seem to brag about their great attendance, averaging 43,000 in 2015 as a G5 school. However, they reported $12 million in revenue from their football team last year. I don't know what they charge for football tickets, but attendance doesn't mean anything if it doesn't translate into revenue.

Someone posted that Clemson and NC State charge $70 for football tickets. Syracuse gets $70 on average per basketball ticket sold. If you want to compete at this level, someone has to pay for it. TV money is great, but donations, premium seating and high ticket prices are all necessary evils.
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2016 04:55 PM by orangefan.)
12-13-2016 04:54 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #34
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-13-2016 04:54 PM)orangefan Wrote:  
(12-13-2016 03:58 PM)nole Wrote:  "My point is that there's a wrong assumption that big football stadiums equal big athletic department budgets"

This assumption is incorrect. Look at the top 10 athletic budgets. Smallest football stadium is 86K.

There are also schools with good sized stadiums and attendance that don't seem to translate to the level of financial success that you'd expect.

I will pick on East Carolina, whose fans always seem to brag about their great attendance, averaging 43,000 in 2015 as a G5 school. However, they reported $12 million in revenue from their football team last year. I don't know what they charge for football tickets, but attendance doesn't mean anything if it doesn't translate into revenue.

Someone posted that Clemson and NC State charge $70 for football tickets. Syracuse gets $70 on average per basketball ticket sold. If you want to compete at this level, someone has to pay for it. TV money is great, but donations, premium seating and high ticket prices are all necessary evils.

I wonder if East Carolina's ticket prices are a reaction to the sharp drop in their attendance recently. Over the past five years or so, their attendance has dropped by close to 15%. They used to fill their stadium, but not lately.

Season ticket packages apparently start at $25/game, with premium seating in the $50 range. I'm not sure how they handle student tickets. I also don't have any idea how many of the 43K are in the low end of the price range.

I could see how poor conference schedules as CUSA was hemorrhaging its better members could have hurt attendance. It doesn't appear that stepping up to the AAC has stopped the bleeding.
12-13-2016 05:26 PM
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ClemVegas Offline
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Post: #35
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
i've never paid close to 70 bucks for Clemson home ticket.
12-13-2016 09:47 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #36
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-13-2016 09:47 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  i've never paid close to 70 bucks for Clemson home ticket.


Georgia Tech home games in football can easily go right past that when you roll in the mandatory TECH Fund contribution.

For decent (~20yd) sideline lower level seats you're talking a minimum of:
$30 (FCS cupcake, G5, etc)
$40 (bad ACC game ... BC, UofL, Cuse, etc)
$50 (good ACC game ... Duke, UNC, VT)
$75 (great ACC game or SEC game ... Clemson, FSU, Auburn, I'd imagine TN too)
$100+ UGAg
12-14-2016 12:03 AM
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nole Offline
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Post: #37
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-13-2016 04:24 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(12-13-2016 03:58 PM)nole Wrote:  "My point is that there's a wrong assumption that big football stadiums equal big athletic department budgets"

This assumption is incorrect. Look at the top 10 athletic budgets. Smallest football stadium is 86K.

Now look at the Top 10 athletic endowments. Which, unlike fans in seats, give money every single year no matter what happens.


But he didn't write: "there's a wrong assumption that big football stadiums equal big athletic ENDOWMENTS"

Instead, he wrote "ATHLETIC BUDGETS."


That assumption is ABSOLUTELY correct. Big football stadiums are basically a necessity to the biggest athletic budgets


What point are you trying to make regarding athletic endowment? Do you have a list of top 10 athletic endowments?
(This post was last modified: 12-14-2016 09:03 AM by nole.)
12-14-2016 09:02 AM
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nole Offline
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Post: #38
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-13-2016 04:54 PM)orangefan Wrote:  
(12-13-2016 03:58 PM)nole Wrote:  "My point is that there's a wrong assumption that big football stadiums equal big athletic department budgets"

This assumption is incorrect. Look at the top 10 athletic budgets. Smallest football stadium is 86K.

There are also schools with good sized stadiums and attendance that don't seem to translate to the level of financial success that you'd expect.

I will pick on East Carolina, whose fans always seem to brag about their great attendance, averaging 43,000 in 2015 as a G5 school. However, they reported $12 million in revenue from their football team last year. I don't know what they charge for football tickets, but attendance doesn't mean anything if it doesn't translate into revenue.

Someone posted that Clemson and NC State charge $70 for football tickets. Syracuse gets $70 on average per basketball ticket sold. If you want to compete at this level, someone has to pay for it. TV money is great, but donations, premium seating and high ticket prices are all necessary evils.


Couple of thoughts:

*43K is not a 'big football stadium'. No matter how much E.C. brags about it.

*When you are talking top 10 athletic budgets, the smallest football stadium size is 86K. Can you name a school not in the top 10 with a larger stadium attendance?
12-14-2016 09:05 AM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #39
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-14-2016 12:03 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(12-13-2016 09:47 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  i've never paid close to 70 bucks for Clemson home ticket.


Georgia Tech home games in football can easily go right past that when you roll in the mandatory TECH Fund contribution.

For decent (~20yd) sideline lower level seats you're talking a minimum of:
$30 (FCS cupcake, G5, etc)
$40 (bad ACC game ... BC, UofL, Cuse, etc)
$50 (good ACC game ... Duke, UNC, VT)
$75 (great ACC game or SEC game ... Clemson, FSU, Auburn, I'd imagine TN too)
$100+ UGAg

Ticket prices for available tickets to the SU-Georgetown game Saturday:

Courtside $500
Sideline, mezzanine $300
Sideline, lower deck $225-$300
Sideline, upper deck $110
Baseline, lower deck $125
Baseline, upper deck $50
Distant view, upper deck $31

Of course for the Eastern Michigan game coming up, the prices are less than half of this, except the cheapest tickets, which are still $25. On the other hand, distant view seats for Duke start at $50.
12-14-2016 09:07 AM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #40
RE: But They've Got A Big Football Stadium
(12-14-2016 09:02 AM)nole Wrote:  What point are you trying to make regarding athletic endowment? Do you have a list of top 10 athletic endowments?


A sufficiently large athletic endowment neutralizes any large stadium. The endowment keeps on giving year after year and, when funneled back into itself, is easy to grow fast.

It's a PITA to look them up, so here's some stale data: http://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2015/0...ments.html

The number one priority of the Alexander-Tharpe Fund, which acts like GT's athletic endowment and project fundraising arm, is to fully fund through endowment *ALL* athletic scholarships including the football stipend. And they've actually already fully funded several sports that way.

When you start really jacking up that endowment like Stanford is doing, you're talking about the endowment being able to kick back $15m+/yr easy. And that was just with what their endowment was 13 years ago. That's quite a head start out of the gate before you start doing ticket sales and donations and TV money and so on.
(This post was last modified: 12-14-2016 10:15 AM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
12-14-2016 10:14 AM
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