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UNT15 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: CCG TV Ratings
(12-12-2016 10:05 AM)rsswmu Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 09:45 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 08:54 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(12-11-2016 08:31 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(12-11-2016 08:20 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The B10 has over 4 million living alums.

The SEC and ACC each have a little over 2 million, iirc.

SEC doesn't have pro sports competition in most of its markets.

B1G isn't that fanatical about football but a huge population generally to work with. The population adopts the local team.

I don't think its as much about alumni count as the statewide populations when you have the #1 state university. For the second tier schools alumni size becomes more important as does distance from the #1 school.

"SEC doesn't have pro sports competition in most of its markets." ??

Atlanta - Falcons, Hawks, Braves
Florida Panthers
Houston Astros, Texans, Rockets
Jacksonville Jaguars
Miami Dolphins, Heat, Marlins
Nashville Predators
Kansas City Chiefs, Royals
St. Louis Blues, Cardinals
New Orleans Saints, Pelicans
Orlando Magic
Tampa Bay Bucanneers, Rays, Lightning
Tennessee Titans

I did not include the WNBS

So only 4 NFL teams to affect SEC teams huh? Yes, he's correct: there's not much real pro sports in the SEC markets. I like how you did the following too:
1. Counted KC and St Louis both as SEC territory.
2. Counted Tampa Bay, Jacksonville, Orlando, Miami and "Florida" as cities
Is there a conference with LESS pro sports competition? I can imagine the ACC is awful with Pitt, Miami, Boston as the most obvious pro sports cities that come to mind.
Cheers!

I went through the big 10 just to see and off the top of my head came up with 44 pro teams. And only 2 members that had 0 competition for football Iowa and Nebraska.

The sec has a bunch Arkansas, Bama, Auburn, Ole miss, miss st, Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Kentucky, and South Carolina. Which is over half the conference. The thing about that too is the only pro team in any of those states is the predators and they offer 0 competition because those schools don't have hockey teams.

I'm pretty sure the Titans play in the same city as Vanderbilt...
12-12-2016 10:25 AM
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MinerInWisconsin Offline
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Post: #22
RE: CCG TV Ratings
(12-12-2016 08:49 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 08:30 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  TV platform and time slot and head to head competition are all factors along with popularity of conference/team involved. I would expect more critical analysis from our resident media and ratings experts.

Its a good bit of work just putting together the numbers he did. Doing an analysis to make them comparable is a lot more.

The network they are on is a factor. Pac 12 and Big 12 are on FS1 a lot which has weak ratings.

He didn't include the split regional games which are some of the best rated games for the Big 12, ACC and Big 10. I don't recall any SEC or Pac 12 games being in that split slot (one game on ABC/ESPN with a mirror on ESPN2 depending on which part of the country).

The totals also include different %s of games for each conference. Conferences with a higher % of games are having their lower rated games drag down the average. If you assume 7 home games per P5 school, the %s are:
Big 10 41%
SEC 50%
ACC 44%
Pac 12 54%
Big 12 63%

If you normalize for these factors, the SEC will almost certainly be first as they are just behind the Big 10 in his numbers. ACC, Pac 12 and Big 12 will be closer, but hard to tell the impact.

Just talking about the OP's title.... ccg's.
12-12-2016 10:53 AM
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rsswmu Offline
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Post: #23
RE: CCG TV Ratings
(12-12-2016 10:25 AM)UNT15 Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 10:05 AM)rsswmu Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 09:45 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 08:54 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(12-11-2016 08:31 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  SEC doesn't have pro sports competition in most of its markets.

B1G isn't that fanatical about football but a huge population generally to work with. The population adopts the local team.

I don't think its as much about alumni count as the statewide populations when you have the #1 state university. For the second tier schools alumni size becomes more important as does distance from the #1 school.


"SEC doesn't have pro sports competition in most of its markets." ??

Atlanta - Falcons, Hawks, Braves
Florida Panthers
Houston Astros, Texans, Rockets
Jacksonville Jaguars
Miami Dolphins, Heat, Marlins
Nashville Predators
Kansas City Chiefs, Royals
St. Louis Blues, Cardinals
New Orleans Saints, Pelicans
Orlando Magic
Tampa Bay Bucanneers, Rays, Lightning
Tennessee Titans

I did not include the WNBS

So only 4 NFL teams to affect SEC teams huh? Yes, he's correct: there's not much real pro sports in the SEC markets. I like how you did the following too:
1. Counted KC and St Louis both as SEC territory.
2. Counted Tampa Bay, Jacksonville, Orlando, Miami and "Florida" as cities
Is there a conference with LESS pro sports competition? I can imagine the ACC is awful with Pitt, Miami, Boston as the most obvious pro sports cities that come to mind.
Cheers!

I went through the big 10 just to see and off the top of my head came up with 44 pro teams. And only 2 members that had 0 competition for football Iowa and Nebraska.

The sec has a bunch Arkansas, Bama, Auburn, Ole miss, miss st, Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Kentucky, and South Carolina. Which is over half the conference. The thing about that too is the only pro team in any of those states is the predators and they offer 0 competition because those schools don't have hockey teams.

I'm pretty sure the Titans play in the same city as Vanderbilt...

My bad pull tenn and vandy off the list still 7 schools
12-12-2016 11:31 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: CCG TV Ratings
(12-11-2016 07:17 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Not great in the least. Not a lot of playoff implications for each PAIR of teams playing in the games. Just another ho-hum win and in week for #'s 3/4, but that's really every week in college football. The PSU/Bama games really didn't make a difference in terms of setting up the Final Four.

That's why I am a proponent of getting rid of them for a regional QF in its place.

It's NEVER going to be a regional QF. It's always going to be seeded. TV wants absolutely no part of a system where the top teams play each other in the 1st round.
12-12-2016 11:56 AM
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Sultan of Euphonistan Offline
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Post: #25
RE: CCG TV Ratings
Also note that it is not just the number of teams but how important those teams are. Generally in many of those areas in the midwest and the NE the pro teams matter as much or more than the college teams. Compare thta to the south where more often than not the opposite is true. Part of that is history those pro teams have been important for a very long time and many southern areas did not get a major pro team in certain sports until later.
12-12-2016 04:58 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #26
RE: CCG TV Ratings
(12-12-2016 08:54 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(12-11-2016 08:31 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(12-11-2016 08:20 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(12-11-2016 06:50 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Anyone know the difference in total living alumni between each conference?

The B10 has over 4 million living alums.

The SEC and ACC each have a little over 2 million, iirc.

SEC doesn't have pro sports competition in most of its markets.

B1G isn't that fanatical about football but a huge population generally to work with. The population adopts the local team.

I don't think its as much about alumni count as the statewide populations when you have the #1 state university. For the second tier schools alumni size becomes more important as does distance from the #1 school.

"SEC doesn't have pro sports competition in most of its markets." ??

Atlanta - Falcons, Hawks, Braves
Florida Panthers
Houston Astros, Texans, Rockets
Jacksonville Jaguars
Miami Dolphins, Heat, Marlins
Nashville Predators
Kansas City Chiefs, Royals
St. Louis Blues, Cardinals
New Orleans Saints, Pelicans
Orlando Magic
Tampa Bay Bucanneers, Rays, Lightning
Tennessee Titans

I did not include the WNBA

Here is a new list of franchises in the south around 30+ years.

Atlanta - Falcons, Hawks, Braves
Houston Astros, Texans, Rockets
Miami Dolphins
New Orleans Saints
Tampa Bay Bucanneers

No WNBA at all at that time. St.Louis/KC are more the Midwest.

9 teams over a wide geographic area, an area if it was the north would stretch from Maine to almost Montana east 2 west. Stretching North it would stretch well beyond the maritime providences and the urban areas of Ontario and Quebec.

In absolute terms the SEC has more fans than the B1G but relative to alumni base its not even a close comparison.

Indiana has 600,000 alumni yet can't put 25,000 in the stands hardly for football games. That alumni to fan ratio is about as sorry as Ball State.
12-14-2016 10:12 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #27
RE: CCG TV Ratings
(12-11-2016 08:31 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  B1G isn't that fanatical about football ....

01-wingedeagle
(This post was last modified: 12-15-2016 09:22 AM by quo vadis.)
12-15-2016 09:22 AM
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westernwilly Offline
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Post: #28
RE: CCG TV Ratings
(12-15-2016 09:22 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-11-2016 08:31 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  B1G isn't that fanatical about football ....

01-wingedeagle

I thought the same thing when I read that.
To say a conference that has three stadiums that sellout over 100k every game, two stadiums that sellout over 80k and two more that sellout over 70k every game, is not fanatical about football, is a statement that is flat out crazy.
12-15-2016 11:17 AM
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Artifice Offline
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Post: #29
RE: CCG TV Ratings
I wonder what those G5 #s would look like if they were also primetime Saturday games? Especially running unopposed by P5.
12-15-2016 11:47 AM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #30
RE: CCG TV Ratings
(12-11-2016 06:50 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Anyone know the difference in total living alumni between each conference?

BIG is #1 ?
12-15-2016 12:16 PM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #31
RE: CCG TV Ratings
(12-15-2016 11:47 AM)Artifice Wrote:  I wonder what those G5 #s would look like if they were also primetime Saturday games? Especially running unopposed by P5.

And on either ABC, FOX, CBS or NBC at that time.
12-15-2016 01:56 PM
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Hokie4Skins Offline
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Post: #32
RE: CCG TV Ratings
Speaking of conference championship games, any guesses for the timeslot of the 2017 Big 12 championship game? FOX is carrying it in odd years, ESPN in even years.
12-15-2016 02:13 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: CCG TV Ratings
(12-15-2016 02:13 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Speaking of conference championship games, any guesses for the timeslot of the 2017 Big 12 championship game? FOX is carrying it in odd years, ESPN in even years.

I'll guess Friday night...

what it'll be.....
Friday night- Big 12(odd), Pac 12(even) on Fox
Saturday 4pm- SEC on CBS
Saturday 8pm- Big Ten on Fox
Saturday 8pm- B12/P12 or ACC- on ABC
Saturday 8pm- B12/P12 or ACC- on ESPN

I suppose you could see some years the ACC or Big 12 on at noon et.
12-15-2016 02:41 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #34
RE: CCG TV Ratings
(12-11-2016 08:12 PM)omniorange Wrote:  
(12-11-2016 07:17 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Not great in the least. Not a lot of playoff implications for each PAIR of teams playing in the games. Just another ho-hum win and in week for #'s 3/4, but that's really every week in college football. The PSU/Bama games really didn't make a difference in terms of setting up the Final Four.

That's why I am a proponent of getting rid of them for a regional QF in its place.

At some point in time, it wouldn't surprise me if these CCGs don't, in essence, become the QFs.

But that is a ways off.

Cheers,
Neil
See to me, these show the lack of value of CCG unless something is on the line. If you have five games where if the favorite wins, all five have a chance to get in (such as 2014), the CCg's have ore value, because not just winning, but "how" you win matters. If it is just win and your in, such as this year, where if the favorite loses the playoff team will be from a team not playing, there isn't as much of a draw.

If the CCG were simply win and your in, and nothing else matters (which would be the case if a QF), I think they actually lose luster over what they can be now. Granted it won't happen every year, but the CCG's to me have the most value if its five games for four spots.
12-15-2016 03:25 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #35
RE: CCG TV Ratings
(12-11-2016 09:58 PM)omniorange Wrote:  If you want to find out though, you can do the same as I did simply by going to this site: http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-...v-ratings/ and doing the work - remember though for my analysi it is those games that were part of the conference TV contract, so the Houston/OU game helps the AAC numbers but the ND/Navy game does not since that is part of Navy's separate TV contract with CBS.

Happy hunting.

Cheers,
Neil

I meant to ask you, and this is a small thing, but just curious. When you said you didn't count the ABC mirror games, did you not count them at all, or just not count the ESPN2 "mirror" number?
12-15-2016 03:28 PM
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Tigersmoke3 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: CCG TV Ratings
(12-11-2016 08:52 PM)Tigersmoke3 Wrote:  
(12-11-2016 06:39 PM)omniorange Wrote:  Overall for the season, including CCGs, for all games televised (with the exception of the ABC/ESPN2 mirror games since it isn't shown which game earned which percentage of the viewers) on CBS, ABC, FOX, ESPN, ESPN2, FS1, and ESPNU the totals for each conference for games that belonged to their TV contracts:

B1G - 40 games, 139.843 million total viewers, for a 3.496 million per game.
SEC - 49 games, 169.789 million total viewers, for a 3.465 million per game.
ACC - 43 games, 97.152 million total viewers, for a 2.259 million per game.
P12 - 45 games, 75.356 million total viewers, for a 1.675 million per game.
B12 - 44 games, 72.637 million total viewers, for a 1.651 million per game.

Cheers,
Neil

I assume you meant so-called p5 overall games, because for some reason you left off the AAC whom I'm guessing had ratings closer to the p5 conferences than the g5. That would be an interesting stat07-coffee3

Sorry guys I wasn't trying to troll you. I was actually just curious how the AAC stacked up against you big boys and I figured if you did that much analysis maybe you also had those stats but by your response I guess it was meant to be a slight to the non p5s. Thanks to Hokiemark who put together some great stats on the AAC, the question was answered 04-cheers
12-15-2016 04:29 PM
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #37
RE: CCG TV Ratings
(12-15-2016 03:28 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(12-11-2016 09:58 PM)omniorange Wrote:  If you want to find out though, you can do the same as I did simply by going to this site: http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-...v-ratings/ and doing the work - remember though for my analysi it is those games that were part of the conference TV contract, so the Houston/OU game helps the AAC numbers but the ND/Navy game does not since that is part of Navy's separate TV contract with CBS.

Happy hunting.

Cheers,
Neil

I meant to ask you, and this is a small thing, but just curious. When you said you didn't count the ABC mirror games, did you not count them at all, or just not count the ESPN2 "mirror" number?

Didn't count them at all. Getting the total viewers for the games are easy, as you indicate, just add the two together. However how to divide them up between the two different games in basically impossible using the data over on SportsMedia Watch. Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Neil
12-15-2016 10:26 PM
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omniorange Offline
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RE: CCG TV Ratings
(12-12-2016 08:49 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 08:30 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  TV platform and time slot and head to head competition are all factors along with popularity of conference/team involved. I would expect more critical analysis from our resident media and ratings experts.

Its a good bit of work just putting together the numbers he did. Doing an analysis to make them comparable is a lot more.

The network they are on is a factor. Pac 12 and Big 12 are on FS1 a lot which has weak ratings.

He didn't include the split regional games which are some of the best rated games for the Big 12, ACC and Big 10. I don't recall any SEC or Pac 12 games being in that split slot (one game on ABC/ESPN with a mirror on ESPN2 depending on which part of the country).

The totals also include different %s of games for each conference. Conferences with a higher % of games are having their lower rated games drag down the average. If you assume 7 home games per P5 school, the %s are:
Big 10 41%
SEC 50%
ACC 44%
Pac 12 54%
Big 12 63%

If you normalize for these factors, the SEC will almost certainly be first as they are just behind the Big 10 in his numbers. ACC, Pac 12 and Big 12 will be closer, but hard to tell the impact.

As you state there are plenty of variable factors involved. But some are more valid than others. Highest number of viewers for an FS1 game was the Texas vs OU game which drew 2.780 million viewers. So FS1 is capable of drawing viewers, when it is a good drawing match-up, even when airing against an ND game and a lower level SEC game in the same time slot. FS1 actually fares relatively well against ESPN2 and considerably better than ESPNU games.

Another factor is the opportunity to be shown. For 2016, the B12 and P12 could have games shown on FOX, ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, and FS1, while the B12 also could have games shown on ESPNU.

B1G games could be shown on ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU (though this will change for next year).

SEC games could be shown on CBS, ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU.

ACC games could be shown on ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU.

So, in terms of P5 games this is how it breaks down from a network perspective:

CBS - SEC
ABC - B1G, ACC, B12, P12
FOX - B12, P12 and B1G championship game
ESPN - SEC (except for 3:30 time slot), B1G, ACC, B12, P12
ESPN2 - same as ESPN
ESPNU - sames as ESPN and ESPN2 except no P12 games
FS1 - B12, P12

SEC, B1G, and P12 have their own networks as well, but those games are not metered nationally.

The above puts a new perspective on your percentages argument. Here are some mitigating factors to the percentages that I see:

1) The two conferences with the highest percentage also have the smallest number of games to show. Percentages in general tend to swing more wildly both good and bad when the numbers being compared vary in terms of sample sizes.

2) Three conferences are restricted due to content needed for their networks. So games not shown include 42 B1G games shown on BTN, 50 SEC games shown on the SECN, and 35 games shown on PTN.

3) The two conferences without a conference network have regional sports network games which account for 16 B12 games and 17 ACC games.

(data from 2 and 3 above was taken from Matt Arz's site)

4) The B12 and PAC12 have an opportunity to be shown on six (B12) or five (P12, with ESPNU the lowest of the six not included) different networks and for two of those six networks (FOX and FS1) are currently only in direct competition with each other - no SEC or B1G games to compete, at least for this year.

5) Meanwhile the ACC has to share their network opportunities with 3 other conferences (one of which is part of the Greater 2) when it comes to ABC games and all 4 other conferences when it comes to ESPN and ESPN2 games.

I believe when the above mitigating factors are taken under consideration, the percentages make more sense.

Cheers,
Neil
12-15-2016 11:18 PM
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