It appears the AAC has followed the Big East's football trend of successful coaches being taken by P5 programs. Charlie Strong (Texas), Justin Fuente (Virginia Tech), Tom Herman (Texas), Matt Rhule (Baylor), and Willie Taggart (Oregon) have all left for programs within the P5. Chad Morris and Ken Niumatalolo almost were poached both this year and last. Phillip Montgomery could be taken next year, if he keeps the Tulsa program moving upwards and onwards.

This interesting trend followed from the Big East. Brian Kelly (ND), Mark Dantonio (MSU), Bobby Petrino (first time - NFL), Walt Harris (Stanford), Randy Edsall (Maryland), Todd Graham (ASU), Rich Rodriguez (MICH), Butch Davis (NFL), Greg Schiano (NFL), and Doug Marrone (NFL) were all Big East Football coaches taken within the last 12 years of the Big East Football conference.

For a perceived non-power conference, the AAC/BE certainly supplied/supplies a lot of coaches to the upper levels of collegiate and professional football. While it can be disheartening and gut-wrenching to see a coach you offered a strong opportunity to decide to jump ship and leave (I know as a Marquette fan with both Tom Crean and Buzz Williams), it speaks volumes to the AAC programs that they have such a solid collection of coaches to build upon (and offer other young and up-and-coming coaches the same opportunity). The AAC needs to keep the strong momentum going, and not take a step back with a Tuberville/Pasqualoni/Diaco/Holtz/Kragthorpe/etc. hire.

I personally love the perception that the AAC hires really strong up-and-coming coaches that can eventually lead big P5 programs. Not only does it improve the quality of coaches in the AAC, it also strengthens each of the AAC programs by becoming programs built on multiple coaches, not any singular coach or era.

Looking forward to seeing who the AAC gets as their next crop of coaches, as well as seeing the developing of Scott Frost, Scottie Montgomery, Mike Norvell, and Willie Fritz.

(12-07-2016 11:23 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  It appears the AAC has followed the Big East's football trend of successful coaches being taken by P5 programs. Charlie Strong (Texas), Justin Fuente (Virginia Tech), Tom Herman (Texas), Matt Rhule (Baylor), and Willie Taggart (Oregon) have all left for programs within the P5. Chad Morris and Ken Niumatalolo almost were poached both this year and last. Phillip Montgomery could be taken next year, if he keeps the Tulsa program moving upwards and onwards.

This interesting trend followed from the Big East. Brian Kelly (ND), Mark Dantonio (MSU), Bobby Petrino (first time - NFL), Walt Harris (Stanford), Randy Edsall (Maryland), Todd Graham (ASU), Rich Rodriguez (MICH), Butch Davis (NFL), Greg Schiano (NFL), and Doug Marrone (NFL) were all Big East Football coaches taken within the last 12 years of the Big East Football conference.

For a perceived non-power conference, the AAC/BE certainly supplied/supplies a lot of coaches to the upper levels of collegiate and professional football. While it can be disheartening and gut-wrenching to see a coach you offered a strong opportunity to decide to jump ship and leave (I know as a Marquette fan with both Tom Crean and Buzz Williams), it speaks volumes to the AAC programs that they have such a solid collection of coaches to build upon (and offer other young and up-and-coming coaches the same opportunity). The AAC needs to keep the strong momentum going, and not take a step back with a Tuberville/Pasqualoni/Diaco/Holtz/Kragthorpe/etc. hire.

I personally love the perception that the AAC hires really strong up-and-coming coaches that can eventually lead big P5 programs. Not only does it improve the quality of coaches in the AAC, it also strengthens each of the AAC programs by becoming programs built on multiple coaches, not any singular coach or era.

Looking forward to seeing who the AAC gets as their next crop of coaches, as well as seeing the developing of Scott Frost, Scottie Montgomery, Mike Norvell, and Willie Fritz.

I agree totally agree with you GW. I think you hit nail on the head. On a side note,I don't know which is the real you the rational you that posts here or the flame throwing AAC hater on holylandofhoops.

what's really weird about things is in basketball, it doesn't happen. You look at the AAC coaches in basketball- and they are really strong. You had Memphis pluck someone actually from a P5 program in Texas Tech. UConn, Cincy, Temple all 3 have really good coaches. UCF got Johnny Dawkins and he's turned UCF around pretty quickly.

(12-07-2016 12:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  what's really weird about things is in basketball, it doesn't happen. You look at the AAC coaches in basketball- and they are really strong. You had Memphis pluck someone actually from a P5 program in Texas Tech. UConn, Cincy, Temple all 3 have really good coaches. UCF got Johnny Dawkins and he's turned UCF around pretty quickly.

That's because AAC basketball programs aren't considered a Mid-Major like the FBS programs are. FBS dumb pecking order subjects them to that label instead of in basketball where the on court performance determines the label.

(12-07-2016 12:18 PM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  

(12-07-2016 12:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  what's really weird about things is in basketball, it doesn't happen. You look at the AAC coaches in basketball- and they are really strong. You had Memphis pluck someone actually from a P5 program in Texas Tech. UConn, Cincy, Temple all 3 have really good coaches. UCF got Johnny Dawkins and he's turned UCF around pretty quickly.

That's because AAC basketball programs aren't considered a Mid-Major like the FBS programs are. FBS dumb pecking order subjects them to that label instead of in basketball where the on court performance determines the label.

It's a shame that there's a lot of Big East fans that think the AAC is a mid major(and TBH vice versa).

I always say you want to see how you are viewed look at 2 things...
1- coaches
2- schedules- to include Exempt tournament invites.

AAC gets the good coaches and keeps them in basketball
and the AAC is getting good home and away's- along with excellent Exempt tournament invites.

BE football during the late 90s and throughout the 2000-2010 decade was a true power football conference that consistently had multiple top 25 teams annually. While the conference lost a lot of its luster due to the divorce + departed schools, the quality of football excellent, and the coach poaching is a perfect example of that.

(12-07-2016 12:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  what's really weird about things is in basketball, it doesn't happen.

It doesn't happen nearly as much in basketball because in basketball, many coaches seem to prefer staying in a situation that works well for them over just taking any "bigger name" job, unless they really, really like the opportunity. There are still some who cash in, but several elite coaches have chosen to stay with non-P5 programs where they think they can continue to win.

Mark Few is still at Gonzaga - this is his 17th season as head coach there - even though he's has several chances to double or triple his salary by moving.

Archie Miller is still at Dayton.

Gregg Marshall is still at Wichita State.

I think one reason coaches don't stick around as often in football is that football success seems more fleeting. CFB coaches have been burned by staying with their G5 team too long - in another thread I mentioned Pat Hill as an example - and even if they don't get fired, they might not get a second chance to take a more lucrative job (eg Sonny Lubick staying at Colorado State for the rest of his career after passing on Miami). In hoops, coaches are more comfortable with turning down an offer, maintaining their level of success, and waiting for a job they really like for the situation or the money or both (eg Shaka Smart passing on several offers before eventually moving from VCU to Texas) or just keeping things going at their current place (like Few).

Walt Harris, who did a good job at Pitt, was actually forced out. Stanford swooped in and saved us from buying out his contract, which didn't end well for them.

(12-07-2016 12:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  what's really weird about things is in basketball, it doesn't happen. You look at the AAC coaches in basketball- and they are really strong. You had Memphis pluck someone actually from a P5 program in Texas Tech. UConn, Cincy, Temple all 3 have really good coaches. UCF got Johnny Dawkins and he's turned UCF around pretty quickly.

Anyone who has followed college basketball for anything longer for the last three years should fall out of their chair at the notion that Texas Tech (and in fairness about half the jobs in a P5 conference) is a power basketball program while UConn, Cincinnati, Memphis and Temple are mid-major basketball schools.

(12-07-2016 02:23 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(12-07-2016 12:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  what's really weird about things is in basketball, it doesn't happen. You look at the AAC coaches in basketball- and they are really strong. You had Memphis pluck someone actually from a P5 program in Texas Tech. UConn, Cincy, Temple all 3 have really good coaches. UCF got Johnny Dawkins and he's turned UCF around pretty quickly.

Anyone who has followed college basketball for anything longer for the last three years should fall out of their chair at the notion that Texas Tech (and in fairness about half the jobs in a P5 conference) is a power basketball program while UConn, Cincinnati, Memphis and Temple are mid-major basketball schools.

yep. Which is why labels are so frankly moronic. Yet there are folks who focus solely on P5 records, like that means anything.

I think the other interesting aspect of football vs. basketball coaches going to P5-type jobs are that, in basketball, you can be successful if when you only have a couple of really skilled players. With football, you need a ton of skill position players on both sides of the ball in order to be competitive. In order to get the best possible players in football, you need a brand, resources and commitment to being in the top of the country. A G5 (or P5) program can one or a few of really strong football players in a particular recruiting class, but still struggle due to not having enough talent elsewhere within the program.

I'm not saying it's easier/harder to win either sport, just that ability to be competitive and be successful is different respectively.

Gosh Darn Pat Forde picked up a comparison I made earlier today.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-college...36446.html

This raiding is reminiscent of the brain drain that ravaged the old Big East several years ago. Louisville lost Petrino and Rutgers lost Greg Schiano to the NFL; Rich Rodriguez bolted West Virginia for Michigan; and Cincinnati saw Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly and Butch Jones all upgrade between 2006-12.

(12-07-2016 03:18 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I think the other interesting aspect of football vs. basketball coaches going to P5-type jobs are that, in basketball, you can be successful if when you only have a couple of really skilled players. With football, you need a ton of skill position players on both sides of the ball in order to be competitive. In order to get the best possible players in football, you need a brand, resources and commitment to being in the top of the country. A G5 (or P5) program can one or a few of really strong football players in a particular recruiting class, but still struggle due to not having enough talent elsewhere within the program.

I'm not saying it's easier/harder to win either sport, just that ability to be competitive and be successful is different respectively.

The biggest difference between G5 and P5 programs in football are in the trenches (both sides of the ball) and with overall depth.

The actual numbers game in both sports are completely different. A basketball team can make a run in March with only 8-9 guys. A good football team today plays 2-3 deep at every position with the exception of QB and Center in nearly every game.

great post GW11

I think the AAC and MWC could be up there battling the Big 12 and PAC 12 for number 4 spot for the best conference in football. Schools that have been getting votes this season are?

Memphis
Navy
Houston
Temple
Tulsa
USF
Boise State
Air Force
Wyoming
San Diego State
Western Kentucky
Old Dominion
North Dakota State
Western Michigan
Central Michigan
Toledo
Troy
Appalachian State
BYU
And maybe Eastern Washington if they made it to the finals against NDSU could finish with votes because they beat Washington State.

To weaken the AAC and MWC is by taken their coaches, or expand the P5 by adding schools like Syracuse, West Virginia, Louisville, Rutgers, Pittsburgh, TCU and Utah by weaken the two conference. But, they kept rebuilding and become strong again.

The only idea is to expand and take the strong teams from those conference. I would look at grabbing Western Michigan, Northern Illinois, Toledo, Ohio U. and Bowling Green out of the MAC as well.