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Saw an interesting suggestion for G5 champs
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ken d Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Saw an interesting suggestion for G5 champs
I don't view the PAC 12 as having a problem with bowls. This year is a bit unusual in that they only had 6 teams eligible and 2 of those were committed to NY6 bowls. I am a bit puzzled by the matchup of Utah and Indiana. I assume that has to do with the bowl pecking order in both conferences.

Last year they had nothing to complain about. They had 10 bowl teams. Six of those drew an opponent that had won more games than the PAC team, another three with the same number of wins, and only one opponent with a poorer record than the PAC team.

Their bowl locations weren't bad either. Pasadena, Dallas, El Paso, San Antonio, Fort Worth, San Diego, Santa Clara, Albuquerque, Tucson, and Las Vegas.

They played four G5 teams: Southern Miss (9-4) in Dallas, Air Force (8-5) in Fort Worth, New Mexico (7-5) in Albuquerque, and BYU (9-3) in Las Vegas.
12-09-2016 09:53 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Saw an interesting suggestion for G5 champs
(12-09-2016 09:53 AM)ken d Wrote:  I don't view the PAC 12 as having a problem with bowls. This year is a bit unusual in that they only had 6 teams eligible and 2 of those were committed to NY6 bowls. I am a bit puzzled by the matchup of Utah and Indiana. I assume that has to do with the bowl pecking order in both conferences.

Last year they had nothing to complain about. They had 10 bowl teams.

The problem is the relatively low payouts, poor timing, and less prestigious opponents.

Let's compare the PAC with the B1G last year, when the PAC had 10 bowl teams and only one in the NY6 so was basically getting all they could for non-NY6 bowls. In contrast, the B1G put 3 teams in the NY6 so had only 7 non-NY6 to cash in on:

Payouts

PAC

New Mexico Bowl ... $456k
Las Vegas ............. $1.3m
Sun ..................... $2.15m
Heart of Dallas ...... $1.1m
Foster Farms .......... $2.2m
Armed Forces .......... $675k
Holiday ................. $2.8m
Alamo .................. $3.85m
Cactus ................... $3.325m

Total ...... $17.875m


B1G

Taxslayer .................. $2.75m
Outback .................... $3.5m
Citrus ........................ $4.25m
Holiday ...................... $2.825m
Quick Lane ................. $1.2m
Foster Farms .............. $2.2m
Pinstripe ..................... $2m

Total ........................... $18.725m


So we see that the B1G made more money from 7 bowls than the PAC did from 9 bowls.

Opponents

Whereas only 1 of 7 B1G bowls were against G5, 4 of 9 PAC bowls were against G5.


Timing


We all know that the more high-profile, prestigious bowls tend to be played closer to NY's Day, whereas the less prestigious "junk" bowls are around and before Christmas.

For the PAC, two of their nine bowls were played the opening day of bowl season, 12/19, and three more were played the day after Christmas.

Only three of their nine bowls - Holiday, Cactus, and Alamo - were clustered around New Year's Day.


In contrast, the B1G didn't play any bowl games until after Christmas, 12/26, and four of their seven bowl games were clustered around NYD, including two on NY Day itself, whereas the PAC had no teams playing on NYD in non-NY6 Bowls.


So it's really all three factors. The PAC does not see itself as inferior to anyone, but the bowls aren't the greatest. Their bowls are ACC-level, not SEC/B1G level.
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2016 02:02 PM by quo vadis.)
12-09-2016 10:27 AM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Saw an interesting suggestion for G5 champs
(12-09-2016 09:53 AM)ken d Wrote:  I don't view the PAC 12 as having a problem with bowls. This year is a bit unusual in that they only had 6 teams eligible and 2 of those were committed to NY6 bowls. I am a bit puzzled by the matchup of Utah and Indiana. I assume that has to do with the bowl pecking order in both conferences.

Last year they had nothing to complain about. They had 10 bowl teams. Six of those drew an opponent that had won more games than the PAC team, another three with the same number of wins, and only one opponent with a poorer record than the PAC team.

Their bowl locations weren't bad either. Pasadena, Dallas, El Paso, San Antonio, Fort Worth, San Diego, Santa Clara, Albuquerque, Tucson, and Las Vegas.

They played four G5 teams: Southern Miss (9-4) in Dallas, Air Force (8-5) in Fort Worth, New Mexico (7-5) in Albuquerque, and BYU (9-3) in Las Vegas.

PAC has a bowl problem:

2016 - #19 Utah plays 6-6 Indiana and #18 Stanford is playing unranked North Carolina...in El Paso. And, this is with 2 PAC teams playing in the NY6.

2015 - PAC had a bunch of 6 and 7 win teams and they all landed in unranked non-P5 matchups. Unranked B1G and ACC teams with 6 or 7 wins are playing *ranked* PAC opponents (see 2016, 2014, and 2013).

2014 - #15 Arizona St. played unranked Duke...in El Paso. #22 Utah played unranked Colorado St.

2013 - #17 UCLA played unranked Virginia Tech...in El Paso. #14 Arizona St. played unranked 7-5 Texas Tech.

In 3 out of the last 4 seasons, TWO ranked PAC teams have played unranked opponents in their bowl matchups.

...and El Paso is not a great bowl destination that makes up for the matchup.
12-09-2016 11:34 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Saw an interesting suggestion for G5 champs
I agree with Quo on here because the G5 is not the same as the non-BCS.

In the non-BCS years, especially early on there wasn't a great deal of quality beyond the MWC and CUSA champions. Maybe a few MAC squads were worth watching in a bowl game. All the recruiting would go to the second tier P5 programs who as a member of a BCS conference and 85 scholarship limits had new opportunities to compete against the blue blood FB schools.

These days, annually the G5 sends a quality representative to a NY6 bowl game. Whether its a 2 loss Boise State, 1 loss Houston or undefeated WMU any G5 team capable of reaching that level will bring some fans to a football game. The problem is once you move beyond the highest ranked G5 champion and move onto other conference champions the idea they are deserving or capacity to travel drops off quickly.

But there is a lot of quality out there these days. Recruiting barriers aren't there anymore with almost every FBS game televised. Houston takes down 2 Top 3 teams and doesn't even win their conference. There was closer to 40 non-BCS programs but about 60 programs in the G5. Conferences are bigger than before and G5 conference championship games are a play-in for a NY6 bowl.

Thus I can see a G5 bowl double header played 12/29 with the champions not selected for a NY6 being somewhat attractive. Take the Las Vegas Bowl and the Miami Beach Bowl as the two bowl games, very attractive destinations. Later in the season than the typical G5 bowls but not right on top of the New Year's bowls. Figure out a way to push the payouts to 5 million with the teams participating, not the conference able to get half the amount.

The AAC I agree is the most marketable conference and should be able to manufacture some better games. Here is my suggestions for the AAC.

1. NY6 Bowl (Champ will get this 50% of the time)
2. G5 Champions Bowl (Las Vegas or Miami to play a conference champion)
3. Highest ranked AAC Bowl (Set up a bowl game vs. BYU or at-large)
4. P5 Bowl #1
5. P5 Bowl #2
6. G5 Bowl Pool (Bahamas, Boca Raton, New Orleans, Hawaii)
7. G5 Bowl Pool (Bahamas, Boca Raton, New Orleans, Hawaii)

The AAC would have the G5 Champion game on OTA with a 5 million payout and then be able to have a highest ranked AAC team bowl with a 3 million payout following behind it to ensure one good non-champion match up.

AAC signs a much larger TV package and they could be the engine for driving a better bowl package for the entire G5.
12-11-2016 02:41 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Saw an interesting suggestion for G5 champs
Another thought as most of us G5 fans agree there are too many bowl games out there is that the MWC, CUSA, MAC and SBC should limit themselves to no more than 5 tie-ins

1) Champions Bowl (NY6 or G5)
2) P5 Bowl Opponent
3) Regional Bowl
4) G5 Bowl Pool #1 (Hawaii, New Orleans, Bahamas, Boca)
5) G5 Bowl Pool #2 (Hawaii, New Orleans, Bahamas, Boca)

Mobile and Virginia Beach could go into the bowl pool. The SBC won't pick up a P5 bowl so could have a second regional game in Charleston.

For the MAC then it could have been this year...

1) Western Michigan (Cotton Bowl)
2) Ohio (St. Louis vs ACC)-Proposed MAC-ACC bowl
3) Toledo (Camellia Bowl)
4) Eastern Michigan (Bahamas Bowl)
5) Central Michigan (Virginia Beach)-Proposed New Bowl

Miami-Ohio plays in the St. Pete just like they are this year to fill-in for an at-large opening.

Ohio did okay scoring 9-3 Troy in Mobile this year but CMU had no business playing in the Miami Beach Bowl. That game deserves better, IMO.

If the AAC wants to get multiple P5 tie-ins I'm all for it since they are the flagship conference at this level. Pick up a few extra bowls that the other G5 conference can fill in. CUSA and MWC do not have the depth to warrant 7 or 8 bowl tie-ins.
12-11-2016 03:04 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Saw an interesting suggestion for G5 champs
(12-11-2016 03:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Another thought as most of us G5 fans agree there are too many bowl games out there is that the MWC, CUSA, MAC and SBC should limit themselves to no more than 5 tie-ins

Why? What's the value in having teams that are bowl-eligible staying home because of a lack of bowls to play in?
12-12-2016 08:44 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Saw an interesting suggestion for G5 champs
(12-12-2016 08:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-11-2016 03:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Another thought as most of us G5 fans agree there are too many bowl games out there is that the MWC, CUSA, MAC and SBC should limit themselves to no more than 5 tie-ins

Why? What's the value in having teams that are bowl-eligible staying home because of a lack of bowls to play in?

Why would the MW limit themselves to 5 bowl tie ins when we have had 7 bowl eligible teams the past 4 years?
I can see limiting to 5 bowl ties for the MW if 7 was the minimum number to be bowl eligible AND the MW gets the Access Bowl yearly. The MW even averages 6 bowl eligible teams with 7 wins.
12-12-2016 10:47 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Saw an interesting suggestion for G5 champs
(12-12-2016 10:47 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 08:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-11-2016 03:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Another thought as most of us G5 fans agree there are too many bowl games out there is that the MWC, CUSA, MAC and SBC should limit themselves to no more than 5 tie-ins

Why? What's the value in having teams that are bowl-eligible staying home because of a lack of bowls to play in?

Why would the MW limit themselves to 5 bowl tie ins when we have had 7 bowl eligible teams the past 4 years?
I can see limiting to 5 bowl ties for the MW if 7 was the minimum number to be bowl eligible AND the MW gets the Access Bowl yearly. The MW even averages 6 bowl eligible teams with 7 wins.

Fans are not going to trot out for 6-6 teams.

Instead of letting 5-7 Mississippi State play in a bowl the G5 Is better off trying to pick up at-larges.
12-12-2016 07:51 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Saw an interesting suggestion for G5 champs
(12-12-2016 07:51 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 10:47 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 08:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-11-2016 03:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Another thought as most of us G5 fans agree there are too many bowl games out there is that the MWC, CUSA, MAC and SBC should limit themselves to no more than 5 tie-ins

Why? What's the value in having teams that are bowl-eligible staying home because of a lack of bowls to play in?

Why would the MW limit themselves to 5 bowl tie ins when we have had 7 bowl eligible teams the past 4 years?
I can see limiting to 5 bowl ties for the MW if 7 was the minimum number to be bowl eligible AND the MW gets the Access Bowl yearly. The MW even averages 6 bowl eligible teams with 7 wins.

Fans are not going to trot out for 6-6 teams.

Instead of letting 5-7 Mississippi State play in a bowl the G5 Is better off trying to pick up at-larges.

They do if the games are relatively cheap, convenient, and drivable. You don't send a G5 team 1000 miles to play another 6-6 G5. If you do that---youre right---nobody will show. If the game a 2-6 hour car ride away in are relatively fun town and the tickets are reasonably priced---they will show. You have to use common sense here. The dumbest thing ever was a lower tier bowl game for a pair of 6-6 G5 teams in the Bahamas. That was never going to work. A 6 year old could have told them that was a bad business model.
(This post was last modified: 12-12-2016 08:14 PM by Attackcoog.)
12-12-2016 08:12 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Saw an interesting suggestion for G5 champs
(12-12-2016 08:12 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 07:51 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 10:47 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 08:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-11-2016 03:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Another thought as most of us G5 fans agree there are too many bowl games out there is that the MWC, CUSA, MAC and SBC should limit themselves to no more than 5 tie-ins

Why? What's the value in having teams that are bowl-eligible staying home because of a lack of bowls to play in?

Why would the MW limit themselves to 5 bowl tie ins when we have had 7 bowl eligible teams the past 4 years?
I can see limiting to 5 bowl ties for the MW if 7 was the minimum number to be bowl eligible AND the MW gets the Access Bowl yearly. The MW even averages 6 bowl eligible teams with 7 wins.

Fans are not going to trot out for 6-6 teams.

Instead of letting 5-7 Mississippi State play in a bowl the G5 Is better off trying to pick up at-larges.

They do if the games are relatively cheap, convenient, and drivable. You don't send a G5 team 1000 miles to play another 6-6 G5. If you do that---youre right---nobody will show. If the game a 2-6 hour car ride away in are relatively fun town and the tickets are reasonably priced---they will show. You have to use common sense here. The dumbest thing ever was a lower tier bowl game for a pair of 6-6 G5 teams in the Bahamas. That was never going to work. A 6 year old could have told them that was a bad business model.
IIRC, the Bahamas Bowl has drawn about 13,000 fans. Sucks, but then again probably more than a few regular season G5 games draw that anyway.

I imagine the game exists as cheap ESPN programming so maybe they could play to an empty stadium and it would still make them money?

I know if I were a player I'd be happy to go, lol.

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(This post was last modified: 12-13-2016 04:52 PM by quo vadis.)
12-13-2016 04:51 PM
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