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An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice"
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #21
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice"
(12-05-2016 01:42 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  I am not sure how framing comes into place when you

Decide to discontinue a pregnancy?
12-05-2016 01:44 PM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #22
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice...
(12-05-2016 01:41 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Tell you what.

You can show your video, as long as I get to show her my video directly after: it's a video showing her how unhappy her life will be because she decide to keep the special needs child. Her husband will have left her, no money to do anything, etc.


That's fair, no?

You're being something of a bastard here... First you attack women and now the disabled. Please go for the trifecta, somehow insult a racial group and our day in liberal land will be complete.

I know plenty of people with a special needs child, and it can be damn challenging. But none of them are "unhappy".

You deciding that a healthy child vs an unhealthy one shapes your joy says more about you than you realize.
12-05-2016 01:45 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #23
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice"
(12-05-2016 01:43 PM)muffinman Wrote:  Actions have consequences. Sometimes those consequences suck.

But since it's legal to discontinue a pregnancy, the only consequence is the cost.


(12-05-2016 01:43 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  You do that and see how well that goes over.

So you do agree that it's fine to reject the ad, just so long as it "wouldn't have gone over well" otherwise.
12-05-2016 01:46 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #24
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice...
(12-05-2016 01:41 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  showing her how unhappy her life will be because she decide to keep the special needs child. Her husband will have left her, no money to do anything, etc.

The implication of your comment is that no one with a special needs family shares love, life and a warm home.

What a truly awful thing to say. You should be ashamed.
12-05-2016 01:46 PM
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muffinman Offline
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Post: #25
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice...
(12-05-2016 01:43 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 01:41 PM)muffinman Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 01:39 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 01:23 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  https://pjmedia.com/parenting/2016/12/04...ndrome-ad/

Abortionists are all about informed consent but often are opposed to giving any accurate information that might help them make the decision from a moral standpoint.

Example: They oppose required ultrasounds for abortion. We can't have women getting an accurate picture of where their baby is developmentally.

… only an invasive transvaginal probe ultrasound can effectively determine gestation age during much of the first trimester, which is when most abortions occur. Englin offered an amendment to require the pregnant woman’s consent prior to subjecting her to a vaginal penetration ultrasound, but House Republicans rejected the amendment by a vote of 64 to 34.

but hey the PA gove says this isn't a problem because women can just "close their eyes"

blaming the libs for being opposed to literally sexual assault while preaching morality. how typical of the cons.

I think you need to look up the definition of that word.

so forcibly sticking something in a women's ****** doesn't meet that definition. 07-coffee3

Last time I checked, routine medical procedures are generally not considered sexual assault.
12-05-2016 01:46 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #26
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice"
(12-05-2016 01:45 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  I know plenty of people with a special needs child

So do I. My partner's mother takes care of one. A great person she is, and the child too.

But that doesn't mean you get to judge someone who decides not to take on that challenge.
12-05-2016 01:47 PM
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muffinman Offline
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Post: #27
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice...
(12-05-2016 01:46 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 01:43 PM)muffinman Wrote:  Actions have consequences. Sometimes those consequences suck.

But since it's legal to discontinue a pregnancy, the only consequence is the cost.


(12-05-2016 01:43 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  You do that and see how well that goes over.

So you do agree that it's fine to reject the ad, just so long as it "wouldn't have gone over well" otherwise.

Sure it is... for now...

Abortion will, one day, be looked upon the same as lobotomies are currently.
12-05-2016 01:48 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #28
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice"
(12-05-2016 01:46 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  The implication of your comment is that no one with a special needs family shares love, life and a warm home.

Of course it doesn't. That's just the only way your mind can interpret it.
12-05-2016 01:48 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice...
(12-05-2016 01:43 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 01:39 PM)john01992 Wrote:  … only an invasive transvaginal probe ultrasound can effectively determine gestation age during much of the first trimester

So the three or four that I have seen within the first month were what, freak accidents? None of them was transvaginal and they all pegged the gestational date to withing a day or two (according to my wifes calendar)

That being said, I actually agree with the left on this one... a TVU is a terrible thing to force by law on anyone for any reason.

That being said, Johnny, would you be ok with a traditional ultrasound? Or are you bringing up TVU's to poison the well?

i don't agree with laws specifically designed to force the debatable moral standards of the majority on the minority. I don't believe in forcing people to undergo medical examinations that are unnecessary according to every single legitimate medical association. I don't believe in enacting any regulation that has zero basis in public/consumer safety or the environment for being enacted.

this is a TRAP law. a targeted regulation which goes against the principles of conservatism but conservatives support anyways because they are hypocrites.
12-05-2016 01:48 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #30
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice"
(12-05-2016 01:48 PM)muffinman Wrote:  Abortion will, one day, be looked upon the same as lobotomies are currently.

Doubtful.

On the other hand, technology may render it a moot point, one day. That would be fine with me, as well.
12-05-2016 01:49 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice...
(12-05-2016 01:46 PM)muffinman Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 01:43 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 01:41 PM)muffinman Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 01:39 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 01:23 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  https://pjmedia.com/parenting/2016/12/04...ndrome-ad/

Abortionists are all about informed consent but often are opposed to giving any accurate information that might help them make the decision from a moral standpoint.

Example: They oppose required ultrasounds for abortion. We can't have women getting an accurate picture of where their baby is developmentally.

… only an invasive transvaginal probe ultrasound can effectively determine gestation age during much of the first trimester, which is when most abortions occur. Englin offered an amendment to require the pregnant woman’s consent prior to subjecting her to a vaginal penetration ultrasound, but House Republicans rejected the amendment by a vote of 64 to 34.

but hey the PA gove says this isn't a problem because women can just "close their eyes"

blaming the libs for being opposed to literally sexual assault while preaching morality. how typical of the cons.

I think you need to look up the definition of that word.

so forcibly sticking something in a women's ****** doesn't meet that definition. 07-coffee3

Last time I checked, routine medical procedures are generally not considered sexual assault.

isn't the US olympic women's gymnastic team undergoing a scandal where a team doctor is being charged with rape after performing "medical procedures" that were unnecessary and thus accounted to sexual assault?

isn't this very issue so common place that health classes in school now require very detailed descriptions of typical "invasive" medical procedures so kids know what is typical/not typical to protect kids from predator doctors?
12-05-2016 01:52 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #32
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice...
(12-05-2016 01:48 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 01:46 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  The implication of your comment is that no one with a special needs family shares love, life and a warm home.

Of course it doesn't. That's just the only way your mind can interpret it.

Jesus H Christmas Riding a Pogo Stick I quoted you EXACTLY! 03-lmfao

You aren’t serious about the realities of abortion and special needs families. You're only serious about being a progressive.
12-05-2016 01:54 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #33
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice"
(12-05-2016 01:54 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  I quoted you EXACTLY

The exactness of your quotation has nothing to do with the inaccuracy of your interpretation of that quote.


(12-05-2016 01:54 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  You aren’t serious about the realities of abortion and special needs families. You're only serious about being a progressive.

I am absolutely serious. I would never judge a woman for choosing to discontinue a pregnancy because she did not feel up to the challenge of raising a special needs child.
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2016 01:57 PM by MplsBison.)
12-05-2016 01:56 PM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #34
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice...
(12-05-2016 01:48 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 01:43 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 01:39 PM)john01992 Wrote:  … only an invasive transvaginal probe ultrasound can effectively determine gestation age during much of the first trimester

So the three or four that I have seen within the first month were what, freak accidents? None of them was transvaginal and they all pegged the gestational date to withing a day or two (according to my wifes calendar)

That being said, I actually agree with the left on this one... a TVU is a terrible thing to force by law on anyone for any reason.

That being said, Johnny, would you be ok with a traditional ultrasound? Or are you bringing up TVU's to poison the well?

i don't agree with laws specifically designed to force the debatable moral standards of the majority on the minority. I don't believe in forcing people to undergo medical examinations that are unnecessary according to every single legitimate medical association. I don't believe in enacting any regulation that has zero basis in public/consumer safety or the environment for being enacted.

this is a TRAP law. a targeted regulation which goes against the principles of conservatism but conservatives support anyways because they are hypocrites.

Ok... so TVU is just a trap aimed at poisoning the discussion.... Gotcha..
12-05-2016 01:56 PM
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muffinman Offline
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Post: #35
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice...
(12-05-2016 01:52 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 01:46 PM)muffinman Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 01:43 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 01:41 PM)muffinman Wrote:  
(12-05-2016 01:39 PM)john01992 Wrote:  … only an invasive transvaginal probe ultrasound can effectively determine gestation age during much of the first trimester, which is when most abortions occur. Englin offered an amendment to require the pregnant woman’s consent prior to subjecting her to a vaginal penetration ultrasound, but House Republicans rejected the amendment by a vote of 64 to 34.

but hey the PA gove says this isn't a problem because women can just "close their eyes"

blaming the libs for being opposed to literally sexual assault while preaching morality. how typical of the cons.

I think you need to look up the definition of that word.

so forcibly sticking something in a women's ****** doesn't meet that definition. 07-coffee3

Last time I checked, routine medical procedures are generally not considered sexual assault.

isn't the US olympic women's gymnastic team undergoing a scandal where a team doctor is being charged with rape after performing "medical procedures" that were unnecessary and thus accounted to sexual assault?

isn't this very issue so common place that health classes in school now require very detailed descriptions of typical "invasive" medical procedures so kids know what is typical/not typical to protect kids from predator doctors?

Was the entire womens gymnastic team pregnant? Have you ever even seen one of these ultrasound performed? I have, with each of my children. They arent to comfortable, but a skilled sonographer makes it a lot better.


Look, that type of ultrasound isnt the way to go if you want this law. It should be offered up as a option, but not required. However there should be required informed consent before allowing the woman to choose to abort or not. There needs to be info provided from both sides of the issue.
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2016 02:00 PM by muffinman.)
12-05-2016 01:58 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice"
TRAP = targeted regulation abortion providers.
12-05-2016 01:59 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #37
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice"
Here's the difference. No one is forcing that family to have an abortion if they have a special needs child. If a family is prepared for that God Bless them. They will need every ounce of strength that they can muster. Many many families don't survive it.

Now one side wants to force that decision and it's not the pro "choice" crowd. I will never ever understand the mentality that you know better than that family. How goes one get so worked up over this? Can you imagine for one milli second what forcing that decision can do. Do any of you think past that initial decision. Where there was once empathy will turn into resentment. You've changed the total calculus.

Call it pro abortion all you want. I can say unequivocally I am pro chouce. The last thing I want to do is put the govt. into a decision they have absolutely no business being involved in.
12-05-2016 02:00 PM
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firmbizzle Offline
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Post: #38
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice"
It's pro-choice. They just choose abortion
12-05-2016 02:02 PM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #39
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice...
(12-05-2016 01:41 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Tell you what.

You can show your video, as long as I get to show her my video directly after: it's a video showing her how unhappy her life will be because she decide to keep the special needs child. Her husband will have left her, no money to do anything, etc.


That's fair, no?

It's extremely selfish. Fair? Life isn't fair.
12-05-2016 02:03 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #40
RE: An example of why I use the term "pro-abortion" and not "pro-choice"
(12-05-2016 02:00 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I will never ever understand the mentality that you know better than that family.

Sadly, it's just another "win"/"loss" point of contention in the culture wars.

It's one thing to have that mentality about taxes, or environmental issues, etc.
12-05-2016 02:05 PM
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