Penn State and Ohio State both have 1 conference loss.

Penn State beat Ohio State head to head.

The only difference between them is Penn State's loss to Pittsburgh.

If Clemson wins tonight, and there is doubt about that right now, and the Big 10 gets only one CFP slot. Somehow I don't think this ends well.

If I'm the playoff committee and I wanted to be a real piss ant about this decision I would would announce that the Big 10 representative was Jim Delany's choice to make.

This has to be some kind of sweet for Miko and ClairtonPanther. And it must be quite humorous for Terry D.

I personally think Penn State may squeak in over Ohio State. Then they can start beating the drum to expand the Playoff to 8. But I'm thinking it goes Alabama, Washington, Clemson & Penn State in the rankings. We'll see though.

Take it to the Bank, even if Penn State gets into the playoffs (they won't, but even if), it will NOT come at the expense of Ohio State!

Ohio State is 100% no doubt about it at all absolutely in the playoffs.

Penn State? Rose Bowl.

They sure screwed things up for the committee. One of the two, either Michigan or OSU, needs to be in the placed into the western division. They say it is all about the rankings, and not conference CGs, so I imagine the Buckeyes get in. Props to Penn State for ninth in a row.

(12-03-2016 11:54 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  They sure screwed things up for the committee. One of the two, either Michigan or OSU, needs to be in the placed into the western division. They say it is all about the rankings, and not conference CGs, so I imagine the Buckeyes get in. Props to Penn State for ninth in a row.

Michigan and Ohio State will play every year regardless of the divisional alignment. If you want to make the playoffs, go undefeated in your conference, if not the entire schedule.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note7 using Tapatalk. Hey, do you smell anything burning?

I don't know how you include Ohio State and exclude Penn St and maintain any credibility. Not only did Penn State win the conference in which Ohio State plays, but they did so largely by beating Ohio State head to head. If the Big 10 gets 1 spot, it should go to Penn State. Now if the committee wants to give the Big 10 two spots, that's an option. But it means bumping a one loss conference champ in either Washington or Clemson. And that likely won't go over well either...

(12-03-2016 11:59 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(12-03-2016 11:54 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  They sure screwed things up for the committee. One of the two, either Michigan or OSU, needs to be in the placed into the western division. They say it is all about the rankings, and not conference CGs, so I imagine the Buckeyes get in. Props to Penn State for ninth in a row.

Michigan and Ohio State will play every year regardless of the divisional alignment. If you want to make the playoffs, go undefeated in your conference, if not the entire schedule.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note7 using Tapatalk. Hey, do you smell anything burning?

Which neither have done.

Peach Bowl: (1) Alabama vs. (4) Penn State
Fiesta Bowl: (2) Washington vs. (3) Clemson

That's how I'm leaning at this point and I think it's the best move for the playoff moving forward. I expect the beating drum of an 8-team playoff coming in the off-season.

I don't think OSU should get a pass. OSU has had a good year, but at this point i wouldn't put them on the same level as Bama. I think the teams ranked 2-8 are all on the same level, meaning on any giving Saturday, depending the site, any one of those teams could beat the others. If you take into consideration the last few weeks, OSU should not be automatically given a spot in the CFP. My CFP ranking would be this:
1. Bama
2. Clemson
3. Penn St.
4. Washington

Now out of the four, I do believe UW is the weakest link, but they are a Champ. More than I can say about OSU.

I'll admit I not really sure I even understand the argument for Ohio State. Is is just because people like teams with the same number of losses? If past history is any indication, the committee has highly valued: (1) conference championships and (2) how you finish the season. Both of which give an edge to Penn State over Ohio State. And when you add in the fact Penn State beat Ohio State head to head, that's another huge factor.

It seems like people like Ohio State mainly because they are a big name program and were perceived to be better. Ohio State was highly ranked in the pre-season polls, whereas Penn State wasn't even getting any votes. In fact Penn State didn't get a single vote in the Coach's poll until week 7 and the AP poll until Week 9 (when they finally cracked the Top 25 for the first time). The simple fact is no one really thought they were good the whole season. And eventually they kept winning enough they forced people to rank them. But in reality, that bias lingers and they'll never really fully overcome it.

Year after year, the polls are pretty much a listing of teams by losses. At the top are the zero loss teams. Then the one loss teams. Then the two loss teams. And so on. It's quite rare anyone bucks that trend unless you come from a non P5 conference (in which case you get pushed down the rankings more). As a one loss team, Ohio State trumps any two loss team in the pollsters minds. But that's not really a ranking based on performance. It's just a list of team by losses. I'm hoping the committee goes a bit beyond just ranking teams by losses.

(12-04-2016 12:30 AM)Jericho Wrote:  I'll admit I not really sure I even understand the argument for Ohio State. Is is just because people like teams with the same number of losses? If past history is any indication, the committee has highly valued: (1) conference championships and (2) how you finish the season. Both of which give an edge to Penn State over Ohio State. And when you add in the fact Penn State beat Ohio State head to head, that's another huge factor.

It seems like people like Ohio State mainly because they are a big name program and were perceived to be better. Ohio State was highly ranked in the pre-season polls, whereas Penn State wasn't even getting any votes. In fact Penn State didn't get a single vote in the Coach's poll until week 7 and the AP poll until Week 9 (when they finally cracked the Top 25 for the first time). The simple fact is no one really thought they were good the whole season. And eventually they kept winning enough they forced people to rank them. But in reality, that bias lingers and they'll never really fully overcome it.

Year after year, the polls are pretty much a listing of teams by losses. At the top are the zero loss teams. Then the one loss teams. Then the two loss teams. And so on. It's quite rare anyone bucks that trend unless you come from a non P5 conference (in which case you get pushed down the rankings more). As a one loss team, Ohio State trumps any two loss team in the pollsters minds. But that's not really a ranking based on performance. It's just a list of team by losses. I'm hoping the committee goes a bit beyond just ranking teams by losses.

(12-04-2016 12:30 AM)Jericho Wrote:  I'll admit I not really sure I even understand the argument for Ohio State. Is is just because people like teams with the same number of losses? If past history is any indication, the committee has highly valued: (1) conference championships and (2) how you finish the season. Both of which give an edge to Penn State over Ohio State. And when you add in the fact Penn State beat Ohio State head to head, that's another huge factor.

It seems like people like Ohio State mainly because they are a big name program and were perceived to be better.

Penn State also has a win over Temple, the AAC champion.

But OSU's win over Oklahoma is what makes them a lock.

(12-04-2016 12:30 AM)Jericho Wrote:  I'll admit I not really sure I even understand the argument for Ohio State. Is is just because people like teams with the same number of losses? If past history is any indication, the committee has highly valued: (1) conference championships and (2) how you finish the season. Both of which give an edge to Penn State over Ohio State. And when you add in the fact Penn State beat Ohio State head to head, that's another huge factor.

It seems like people like Ohio State mainly because they are a big name program and were perceived to be better. Ohio State was highly ranked in the pre-season polls, whereas Penn State wasn't even getting any votes. In fact Penn State didn't get a single vote in the Coach's poll until week 7 and the AP poll until Week 9 (when they finally cracked the Top 25 for the first time). The simple fact is no one really thought they were good the whole season. And eventually they kept winning enough they forced people to rank them. But in reality, that bias lingers and they'll never really fully overcome it.

Year after year, the polls are pretty much a listing of teams by losses. At the top are the zero loss teams. Then the one loss teams. Then the two loss teams. And so on. It's quite rare anyone bucks that trend unless you come from a non P5 conference (in which case you get pushed down the rankings more). As a one loss team, Ohio State trumps any two loss team in the pollsters minds. But that's not really a ranking based on performance. It's just a list of team by losses. I'm hoping the committee goes a bit beyond just ranking teams by losses.

????

I feel like I'm in bizzaro world. How can people NOT understand the argument for Ohio State? It's not that they just have one loss. Out of the potential playoff teams, they have the best conference win (a then-#3 Michigan team) and the best non-conference win (Big 12 champ Oklahoma on the road that's likely moving up in the final rankings). In a wacky backwards way, the fact that their only loss was to the Big Ten champ Penn State that's probably going to be ranked #5 as of tomorrow also means that they have the "best loss" of any potential playoff team, too.

In a "normal" season, I would say that the conference championship is the trump card when all else is equal. However, all else is *not* equal here. Ohio State has the better resume with better wins and their one loss happened to be the "best loss". I can appreciate the desire to give a lot of weight to conference championships (which ought to be the case as a general matter), but let's get off the notion that Ohio State is somehow getting some preference simply because they only have one loss or a great brand name. Ohio State is in position for the playoff because they have a *fantastic* resume that's superior to Penn State (who is just as much of a major brand name).

(12-04-2016 12:48 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 12:30 AM)Jericho Wrote:  I'll admit I not really sure I even understand the argument for Ohio State. Is is just because people like teams with the same number of losses? If past history is any indication, the committee has highly valued: (1) conference championships and (2) how you finish the season. Both of which give an edge to Penn State over Ohio State. And when you add in the fact Penn State beat Ohio State head to head, that's another huge factor.

It seems like people like Ohio State mainly because they are a big name program and were perceived to be better. Ohio State was highly ranked in the pre-season polls, whereas Penn State wasn't even getting any votes. In fact Penn State didn't get a single vote in the Coach's poll until week 7 and the AP poll until Week 9 (when they finally cracked the Top 25 for the first time). The simple fact is no one really thought they were good the whole season. And eventually they kept winning enough they forced people to rank them. But in reality, that bias lingers and they'll never really fully overcome it.

Year after year, the polls are pretty much a listing of teams by losses. At the top are the zero loss teams. Then the one loss teams. Then the two loss teams. And so on. It's quite rare anyone bucks that trend unless you come from a non P5 conference (in which case you get pushed down the rankings more). As a one loss team, Ohio State trumps any two loss team in the pollsters minds. But that's not really a ranking based on performance. It's just a list of team by losses. I'm hoping the committee goes a bit beyond just ranking teams by losses.

????

I feel like I'm in bizzaro world. How can people NOT understand the argument for Ohio State? It's not that they just have one loss. Out of the potential playoff teams, they have the best conference win (a then-#3 Michigan team) and the best non-conference win (Big 12 champ Oklahoma on the road that's likely moving up in the final rankings). In a wacky backwards way, the fact that their only loss was to the Big Ten champ Penn State that's probably going to be ranked #5 as of tomorrow also means that they have the "best loss" of any potential playoff team, too.

In a "normal" season, I would say that the conference championship is the trump card when all else is equal. However, all else is *not* equal here. Ohio State has the better resume with better wins and their one loss happened to be the "best loss". I can appreciate the desire to give a lot of weight to conference championships (which ought to be the case as a general matter), but let's get off the notion that Ohio State is somehow getting some preference simply because they only have one loss or a great brand name. Ohio State is in position for the playoff because they have a *fantastic* resume that's superior to Penn State (who is just as much of a major brand name).

The Big 10 only had 3 wins over other (non Big 10) P5 schools with winning records this year Frank. We don't know how strong you may really be, or how weak. Yes you beat Oklahoma the champion of a conference which had the weakest record against OOC competition and Oklahoma had two OOC losses of their own, both blowouts, and one to G5 Houston who managed some bizarre losses of their own. Outside of that you beat Colorado and L.S.U.. At least Colorado was a division winner but in probably the weakest of the P5 conferences. L.S.U. was a middling West SEC school this year. Outside of that you've won nothing of consequence, but did have a major loss to Pitt.

Therefore simply saying Ohio State is more deserving because of a victory over Michigan, or any other Big 10 school, is nebulous at best. Your conference had the weakest bottom of any conference this year.

But before you think I'm just being an SEC homer we have no idea how strong or weak our #2 through whatever are either. Right now on sheer competition the ACC actually appears to have the strongest middle.

It's been a mystery of a year. I see glaring weaknesses on each school in consideration except for Alabama, and they have a few concerns. So whose to say how good Ohio State really is. Unfortunately we will have 4 contestants decided on before the bowls. The old BCS system would have been more accurate this year.

(12-04-2016 12:48 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 12:30 AM)Jericho Wrote:  I'll admit I not really sure I even understand the argument for Ohio State. Is is just because people like teams with the same number of losses? If past history is any indication, the committee has highly valued: (1) conference championships and (2) how you finish the season. Both of which give an edge to Penn State over Ohio State. And when you add in the fact Penn State beat Ohio State head to head, that's another huge factor.

It seems like people like Ohio State mainly because they are a big name program and were perceived to be better. Ohio State was highly ranked in the pre-season polls, whereas Penn State wasn't even getting any votes. In fact Penn State didn't get a single vote in the Coach's poll until week 7 and the AP poll until Week 9 (when they finally cracked the Top 25 for the first time). The simple fact is no one really thought they were good the whole season. And eventually they kept winning enough they forced people to rank them. But in reality, that bias lingers and they'll never really fully overcome it.

Year after year, the polls are pretty much a listing of teams by losses. At the top are the zero loss teams. Then the one loss teams. Then the two loss teams. And so on. It's quite rare anyone bucks that trend unless you come from a non P5 conference (in which case you get pushed down the rankings more). As a one loss team, Ohio State trumps any two loss team in the pollsters minds. But that's not really a ranking based on performance. It's just a list of team by losses. I'm hoping the committee goes a bit beyond just ranking teams by losses.

????

I feel like I'm in bizzaro world. How can people NOT understand the argument for Ohio State? It's not that they just have one loss. Out of the potential playoff teams, they have the best conference win (a then-#3 Michigan team) and the best non-conference win (Big 12 champ Oklahoma on the road that's likely moving up in the final rankings). In a wacky backwards way, the fact that their only loss was to the Big Ten champ Penn State that's probably going to be ranked #5 as of tomorrow also means that they have the "best loss" of any potential playoff team, too.

In a "normal" season, I would say that the conference championship is the trump card when all else is equal. However, all else is *not* equal here. Ohio State has the better resume with better wins and their one loss happened to be the "best loss". I can appreciate the desire to give a lot of weight to conference championships (which ought to be the case as a general matter), but let's get off the notion that Ohio State is somehow getting some preference simply because they only have one loss or a great brand name. Ohio State is in position for the playoff because they have a *fantastic* resume that's superior to Penn State (who is just as much of a major brand name).

As usual, Frank hits the nail on the head.

(12-04-2016 01:10 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 12:48 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 12:30 AM)Jericho Wrote:  I'll admit I not really sure I even understand the argument for Ohio State. Is is just because people like teams with the same number of losses? If past history is any indication, the committee has highly valued: (1) conference championships and (2) how you finish the season. Both of which give an edge to Penn State over Ohio State. And when you add in the fact Penn State beat Ohio State head to head, that's another huge factor.

It seems like people like Ohio State mainly because they are a big name program and were perceived to be better. Ohio State was highly ranked in the pre-season polls, whereas Penn State wasn't even getting any votes. In fact Penn State didn't get a single vote in the Coach's poll until week 7 and the AP poll until Week 9 (when they finally cracked the Top 25 for the first time). The simple fact is no one really thought they were good the whole season. And eventually they kept winning enough they forced people to rank them. But in reality, that bias lingers and they'll never really fully overcome it.

Year after year, the polls are pretty much a listing of teams by losses. At the top are the zero loss teams. Then the one loss teams. Then the two loss teams. And so on. It's quite rare anyone bucks that trend unless you come from a non P5 conference (in which case you get pushed down the rankings more). As a one loss team, Ohio State trumps any two loss team in the pollsters minds. But that's not really a ranking based on performance. It's just a list of team by losses. I'm hoping the committee goes a bit beyond just ranking teams by losses.

????

I feel like I'm in bizzaro world. How can people NOT understand the argument for Ohio State? It's not that they just have one loss. Out of the potential playoff teams, they have the best conference win (a then-#3 Michigan team) and the best non-conference win (Big 12 champ Oklahoma on the road that's likely moving up in the final rankings). In a wacky backwards way, the fact that their only loss was to the Big Ten champ Penn State that's probably going to be ranked #5 as of tomorrow also means that they have the "best loss" of any potential playoff team, too.

In a "normal" season, I would say that the conference championship is the trump card when all else is equal. However, all else is *not* equal here. Ohio State has the better resume with better wins and their one loss happened to be the "best loss". I can appreciate the desire to give a lot of weight to conference championships (which ought to be the case as a general matter), but let's get off the notion that Ohio State is somehow getting some preference simply because they only have one loss or a great brand name. Ohio State is in position for the playoff because they have a *fantastic* resume that's superior to Penn State (who is just as much of a major brand name).

As usual, Frank hits the nail on the head.

Only if the head is already committed to a Big 10 point of view.

I don't necessarily disagree that OSU isn't more "deserving" than PSU if you look at resumes. But, as we've heard over and over, it's not about "most deserving" but "best teams." Not only did I see my PSU beat OSU head-to-head...but then I saw PSU beat up on Iowa (41-14) a week before Michigan lost to them. Then, I saw PSU beat Indiana by 14 on their field...a week before Michigan trailed to Indiana at half. Then, I saw PSU beat Michigan State convincingly (45-12) a week after OSU was fortunate that a failed two-point conversion by MSU gave OSU a 17-16 squeaker. And to top it off, I saw Ohio State squeak past Michigan AT HOME no less...with some lucky breaks (UM turnovers, ref calls).

The best Big Ten team in October and November (and now December) is Penn State. Ohio State and Michigan had a heck of a September, but they aren't the best right now.

(12-04-2016 01:08 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 12:48 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 12:30 AM)Jericho Wrote:  I'll admit I not really sure I even understand the argument for Ohio State. Is is just because people like teams with the same number of losses? If past history is any indication, the committee has highly valued: (1) conference championships and (2) how you finish the season. Both of which give an edge to Penn State over Ohio State. And when you add in the fact Penn State beat Ohio State head to head, that's another huge factor.

It seems like people like Ohio State mainly because they are a big name program and were perceived to be better. Ohio State was highly ranked in the pre-season polls, whereas Penn State wasn't even getting any votes. In fact Penn State didn't get a single vote in the Coach's poll until week 7 and the AP poll until Week 9 (when they finally cracked the Top 25 for the first time). The simple fact is no one really thought they were good the whole season. And eventually they kept winning enough they forced people to rank them. But in reality, that bias lingers and they'll never really fully overcome it.

Year after year, the polls are pretty much a listing of teams by losses. At the top are the zero loss teams. Then the one loss teams. Then the two loss teams. And so on. It's quite rare anyone bucks that trend unless you come from a non P5 conference (in which case you get pushed down the rankings more). As a one loss team, Ohio State trumps any two loss team in the pollsters minds. But that's not really a ranking based on performance. It's just a list of team by losses. I'm hoping the committee goes a bit beyond just ranking teams by losses.

????

I feel like I'm in bizzaro world. How can people NOT understand the argument for Ohio State? It's not that they just have one loss. Out of the potential playoff teams, they have the best conference win (a then-#3 Michigan team) and the best non-conference win (Big 12 champ Oklahoma on the road that's likely moving up in the final rankings). In a wacky backwards way, the fact that their only loss was to the Big Ten champ Penn State that's probably going to be ranked #5 as of tomorrow also means that they have the "best loss" of any potential playoff team, too.

In a "normal" season, I would say that the conference championship is the trump card when all else is equal. However, all else is *not* equal here. Ohio State has the better resume with better wins and their one loss happened to be the "best loss". I can appreciate the desire to give a lot of weight to conference championships (which ought to be the case as a general matter), but let's get off the notion that Ohio State is somehow getting some preference simply because they only have one loss or a great brand name. Ohio State is in position for the playoff because they have a *fantastic* resume that's superior to Penn State (who is just as much of a major brand name).

The Big 10 only had 3 wins over other (non Big 10) P5 schools with winning records this year Frank. We don't know how strong you may really be, or how weak. Yes you beat Oklahoma the champion of a conference which had the weakest record against OOC competition and Oklahoma had two OOC losses of their own, both blowouts, and one to G5 Houston who managed some bizarre losses of their own. Outside of that you beat Colorado and L.S.U.. At least Colorado was a division winner but in probably the weakest of the P5 conferences. L.S.U. was a middling West SEC school this year. Outside of that you've won nothing of consequence, but did have a major loss to Pitt.

Therefore simply saying Ohio State is more deserving because of a victory over Michigan, or any other Big 10 school, is nebulous at best. Your conference had the weakest bottom of any conference this year.

But before you think I'm just being an SEC homer we have no idea how strong or weak our #2 through whatever are either. Right now on sheer competition the ACC actually appears to have the strongest middle.

It's been a mystery of a year. I see glaring weaknesses on each school in consideration except for Alabama, and they have a few concerns. So whose to say how good Ohio State really is. Unfortunately we will have 4 contestants decided on before the bowls. The old BCS system would have been more accurate this year.

You act like Pitt is a bad loss. It's not. Top 25 team now.

look at SEC- their p5 wins vs winning teams
11 USC, North Carolina, 13 Louisville, 23 Va Tech
B10 vs winning teams-
8 Colorado, 9 Oklahoma, 21 LSU

I would say that the Big Ten beat Temple as well, that's pretty much equal to beating UNC.

ACC-
#14 Auburn, #15 Florida, Georgia, #7 Penn St
Big 12-
#25 Pittsburgh
Pac 12
Kansas St
so Big Ten and ACC have the most top 15 wins.

So it's not like the Big Ten is any worse at all- and they have the most impressive OOC wins. I'll take Colorado and Oklahoma over USC and Louisville or Penn St, Auburn.

in the Old BCS, it would be Alabama/Ohio St lock city right now. Ohio St is a unanimous #2 in all 6 of the old BCS computers. So Clemson would have had to pass Ohio St in the polls, and do so in huge fashion. Wasn't going to happen....

(12-04-2016 01:43 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 01:08 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 12:48 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 12:30 AM)Jericho Wrote:  I'll admit I not really sure I even understand the argument for Ohio State. Is is just because people like teams with the same number of losses? If past history is any indication, the committee has highly valued: (1) conference championships and (2) how you finish the season. Both of which give an edge to Penn State over Ohio State. And when you add in the fact Penn State beat Ohio State head to head, that's another huge factor.

It seems like people like Ohio State mainly because they are a big name program and were perceived to be better. Ohio State was highly ranked in the pre-season polls, whereas Penn State wasn't even getting any votes. In fact Penn State didn't get a single vote in the Coach's poll until week 7 and the AP poll until Week 9 (when they finally cracked the Top 25 for the first time). The simple fact is no one really thought they were good the whole season. And eventually they kept winning enough they forced people to rank them. But in reality, that bias lingers and they'll never really fully overcome it.

Year after year, the polls are pretty much a listing of teams by losses. At the top are the zero loss teams. Then the one loss teams. Then the two loss teams. And so on. It's quite rare anyone bucks that trend unless you come from a non P5 conference (in which case you get pushed down the rankings more). As a one loss team, Ohio State trumps any two loss team in the pollsters minds. But that's not really a ranking based on performance. It's just a list of team by losses. I'm hoping the committee goes a bit beyond just ranking teams by losses.

????

I feel like I'm in bizzaro world. How can people NOT understand the argument for Ohio State? It's not that they just have one loss. Out of the potential playoff teams, they have the best conference win (a then-#3 Michigan team) and the best non-conference win (Big 12 champ Oklahoma on the road that's likely moving up in the final rankings). In a wacky backwards way, the fact that their only loss was to the Big Ten champ Penn State that's probably going to be ranked #5 as of tomorrow also means that they have the "best loss" of any potential playoff team, too.

In a "normal" season, I would say that the conference championship is the trump card when all else is equal. However, all else is *not* equal here. Ohio State has the better resume with better wins and their one loss happened to be the "best loss". I can appreciate the desire to give a lot of weight to conference championships (which ought to be the case as a general matter), but let's get off the notion that Ohio State is somehow getting some preference simply because they only have one loss or a great brand name. Ohio State is in position for the playoff because they have a *fantastic* resume that's superior to Penn State (who is just as much of a major brand name).

The Big 10 only had 3 wins over other (non Big 10) P5 schools with winning records this year Frank. We don't know how strong you may really be, or how weak. Yes you beat Oklahoma the champion of a conference which had the weakest record against OOC competition and Oklahoma had two OOC losses of their own, both blowouts, and one to G5 Houston who managed some bizarre losses of their own. Outside of that you beat Colorado and L.S.U.. At least Colorado was a division winner but in probably the weakest of the P5 conferences. L.S.U. was a middling West SEC school this year. Outside of that you've won nothing of consequence, but did have a major loss to Pitt.

Therefore simply saying Ohio State is more deserving because of a victory over Michigan, or any other Big 10 school, is nebulous at best. Your conference had the weakest bottom of any conference this year.

But before you think I'm just being an SEC homer we have no idea how strong or weak our #2 through whatever are either. Right now on sheer competition the ACC actually appears to have the strongest middle.

It's been a mystery of a year. I see glaring weaknesses on each school in consideration except for Alabama, and they have a few concerns. So whose to say how good Ohio State really is. Unfortunately we will have 4 contestants decided on before the bowls. The old BCS system would have been more accurate this year.

You act like Pitt is a bad loss. It's not. Top 25 team now.

look at SEC- their p5 wins vs winning teams
11 USC, North Carolina, 13 Louisville, 23 Va Tech
B10 vs winning teams-
8 Colorado, 9 Oklahoma, 21 LSU

I would say that the Big Ten beat Temple as well, that's pretty much equal to beating UNC.

ACC-
#14 Auburn, #15 Florida, Georgia, #7 Penn St
Big 12-
#25 Pittsburgh
Pac 12
Kansas St
so Big Ten and ACC have the most top 15 wins.

So it's not like the Big Ten is any worse at all- and they have the most impressive OOC wins. I'll take Colorado and Oklahoma over USC and Louisville or Penn St, Auburn.

in the Old BCS, it would be Alabama/Ohio St lock city right now. Ohio St is a unanimous #2 in all 6 of the old BCS computers. So Clemson would have had to pass Ohio St in the polls, and do so in huge fashion. Wasn't going to happen....

The whole point Stever is we don't know what the Big 10, SEC, or ACC really has yet and of the indicators the ACC's are pretty good. We need to get away from computers, polls, and opinions, especially when Penn State beat Ohio State. You've got to count what actually happened a bit more, especially when everything else is terribly unclear. How strong is Colorado really because the PAC looks to be pretty weak? Oklahoma? They lost in blowouts to the only two non-conference ranked teams they played and the rest of the Big 12 had the worst OOC record. The strength of Colorado is in question because who did the beat? And L.S.U. was middle of the pack in the SEC West.

Tell me who wants to play U.S.C. now? They did hand Washington their only blemish and by double digits. How strong is Washington? From the way things look to me, outside of Alabama we don't have any real indications of how strong or weak everyone else is. Clemson had its struggles too. I know my Tigers, and they were putrid the first couple of weeks of the season, and may be again now that White the QB is out. It was putrid Auburn that Clemson barely edged out, not the team that ran over Arkansas.

I'm just saying it's not as clear cut as people want it to be because it's not clear cut at all. ESPN has their agenda. They've hyped the return of the Big 10 all season. The top schools of the Big 10 had 3 schools with 3 or fewer wins at the bottom and a couple at 6-6 in the middle. That's a lot of wins to spread around in a 9 game conference schedule.

I'll wait until the bowls play out to see who stands where. To heck with the press anointing the winners before the results are in. Personally I think Penn State is getting hosed. But we'll see.

The thing is, Ohio St has the best resume out there besides Alabama. who else has ROAD wins over 2 top 10 teams, and a 3rd top 10 win at home?