The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

This is not a thread to hate on him. But there's clearly something off with his shot. He is 10 of 42 from the field and many of his misses aren't close. And every one that is close is off the front of the rim. That includes jumpers, threes, lay-ups, runners, etc.

Coming out of HS it was said that his jump shot is "ready for prime time" according to one article. He was a Top 100 recruit. But if you watch him play, it's...I don't know...weird. He gets stripped a lot when he drives as well, because he's not strong with the ball. And tonight, after a miss, he was clearly frustrated.

All that said, he is 13 of 13 from the FT line and he has great form, even on the misses from the floor. Which makes me think the floor game issues are mental. Has anyone heard anything? What's the deal?

We need him to spread the floor and drag defenders away from the paint, or we are going to see more ugly games like tonight.

There's a scene in the film Moneyball, where Brad Pitt is getting frustrated by his scouts and their comments. One guy talks about how Player X is a good hitter because he has quick hands, and the ball explodes off his bat, etc. Brad Pitt looks at him and says, "If he's a good hitter, why doesn't he hit good?"

Is BJ Stith a good shooter? Why doesn't he shoot good?

I'm hoping as the season goes on we can look back at this thread and laugh.

Next thread will be about Randy Haynes and his 6 for 31 effort so far this season (yet 71% from FT line).

This is all about players that love the transition and create off the dribble being forced into a rigid system. They are thinking way to much especially BJ, Haynes, to some extent Caver. We need to start running and getting easy buckets in transition.

(11-30-2016 10:27 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  This is all about players that love the transition and create off the dribble being forced into a rigid system. They are thinking way to much especially BJ, Haynes, to some extent Caver. We need to start running and getting easy buckets in transition.

Quite a few transition opportunities tonight that players didn't capitalize on:

Haynes' steal in the first half. Tried to go fancy instead of taking the contact and getting a possible and one (or at least a trip to the line). NO POINTS

BJ dribbled the ball off his foot when he tried to cross a player. NO POINTS

Baker had a 2 on 1 with Porter in the second half and instead of throwing it up to the big fella, clanked the layup off the rim.

Caver has pushed the ball a lot. And hasn't been stifled at all. Does he pick when to get the ball up fast? Yes. But when he does it also seems to work well. Case in point
Pushed the ball ahead to Porter. Porter fouled.

(11-30-2016 10:17 PM)djnva Wrote:  This is not a thread to hate on him. But there's clearly something off with his shot. He is 10 of 42 from the field and many of his misses aren't close. And every one that is close is off the front of the rim. That includes jumpers, threes, lay-ups, runners, etc.

Coming out of HS it was said that his jump shot is "ready for prime time" according to one article. He was a Top 100 recruit. But if you watch him play, it's...I don't know...weird. He gets stripped a lot when he drives as well, because he's not strong with the ball. And tonight, after a miss, he was clearly frustrated.

All that said, he is 13 of 13 from the FT line and he has great form, even on the misses from the floor. Which makes me think the floor game issues are mental. Has anyone heard anything? What's the deal?

We need him to spread the floor and drag defenders away from the paint, or we are going to see more ugly games like tonight.

There's a scene in the film Moneyball, where Brad Pitt is getting frustrated by his scouts and their comments. One guy talks about how Player X is a good hitter because he has quick hands, and the ball explodes off his bat, etc. Brad Pitt looks at him and says, "If he's a good hitter, why doesn't he hit good?"

Is BJ Stith a good shooter? Why doesn't he shoot good?

I'm hoping as the season goes on we can look back at this thread and laugh.

Next thread will be about Randy Haynes and his 6 for 31 effort so far this season (yet 71% from FT line).

His game looks, for lack of a better word, sloppy to me. He looks like a top 50 recruit. His body, his athleticism, the way he moves all looks like an elite athlete, but he seems to lack attention to detail, fundamentals, and an understanding of what is the right play vs the wrong play. Its perplexing. If you just watch him move on the floor, he looks like a star right up until he makes a move to score.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Even in transition are guys are worried and thinking too much !

He really hasn't played much competitively in 2 seasons, at the end of UVA's bench as a freshman and sitting out last year.

I hope it comes soon, especially with Talley out a few more games.

Caver and Baker have shots were they look good off the hand. BJs does not. Maybe that is just confidence.


On another note, met the family. Nice people.

There were a few shots on my end of the court (first half) where you could see him hesitate while shooting. Its almost like a hitch or the yips. Not sure if he's worried about getting yanked or what. But it was clear to me that he wasn't confident in those instances when he pulled the trigger.

(11-30-2016 10:46 PM)djnva Wrote:  He really hasn't played much competitively in 2 seasons, at the end of UVA's bench as a freshman and sitting out last year.

I hope it comes soon, especially with Talley out a few more games.

I hope so too. Not only is his shot way off, but he has no handles and is not a good defender. His is a good rebounder for a guard.

While Stith was atrocious tonight, he was not the only one that struggled:

BJ Stith: Shot looked awful, penetrated too deeply for contested shot vice numerous open 10-footers, when took the 10-footer shot was off to the side and too long.
Haynes: They say that pure shooters can shoot their way out of a slump with multiple attempts. Not tonight.
Porter: With Brandan and Taylor in foul trouble, he is not effective as the only big on the paint.
Carver: Finish strong, damnit. That turnover after the sweet pass and bunny layup was atrocious.
Brandan Stith: Maybe if you spent less time glaring at refs vice missing 3 foot bunnies, we'd be better off
Taylor: C'mon son, it is your 4th year. You have had to learn some offense during your time here.
Caver: With inside game gone, forced shots. Made a few in first half, but not his game.
Baker: Game MVP. Actually drove for a bucket, great defense, and hit a big three in second half.
Talley and Kah: Your absence almost cost this team a humiliating result tonight. Get your crap together.

This was an awful game versus an awful team. Thank goodness they were so bad that the awful 2nd half play was able to be overcome.

Thank you smitty for being one of the few not trying to sugarcoat this steaming turd of a basketball game.

Stith does not look like a star to me but then again, who on our team does? Brandon stith is the only guy putting up reliable numbers and he can't make free throws or shoot outside of 6 feet.

Not a great recipe for success this season. A lot of close games last year went our way because of trey Freeman. We could very easily end up losing 10 or more games we would have won last year because we have no go to player. Freeman was special and he covered up a fairly big lack of talent. So far, no one looks even close to filling that void.

Hi guys, First time posting on the forum. Usually just enjoy viewing your discussions. However finally decided to post (vent) after watching the shooting clinic we put on tonight.
BJ Stith is an athletically gifted player but has some serious flaws in his jump shot. Looks like he is not releasing the ball at the top of his jump shot. Early ball release with the arm movement and shot happening during his elevation. Having to deal with the extra momentum of the jump and arm swing at the same time is probably why he has developed the high arc on his shot. This may explain why his free throws are consistent and the jumpshot horrendous. During the BT and JJ era, seems like we have had our share of athletic players with flawed shot mechanics. Freeman and Bacote were exceptions. Trey could teach a clinic on how to shoot a jump shot. Square up, great hand placement, shoot at top of jump, rotation on the ball, follow through, and come down in same place and don't drift.
I really like Caver and Haynes, but if you look close, Haynes has a quirky jump shot where he does not square up and shoots almost from his side. I think he was 1 for 11 tonight. On the free throw line Haynes squares up better and seems to shoot OK. Caver's shot has almost no arc. That leaves you a pretty small target and no margin for error. Turn the clock back a few years back, and it drove me crazy to watch Palmore shoot with no ball rotation and choose the more complex floata instead of the jump shot as his go to. Baker and Talley may be the only two on the team that have decent shot mechanics.
I'd love to think the boys are just going through a collective team shooting slump, but I'm thinking it's a bit deeper than that. So I will pack the prilocsec and tums, enjoy the great team defense, and get excited about some pure shooters (Hueitt and Godwin) coming in next year.

Not impressed.... why did UVA recruit him?

Define "recruited"

(12-01-2016 12:49 AM)ODU8ballDLX Wrote:  Hi guys, First time posting on the forum. Usually just enjoy viewing your discussions. However finally decided to post (vent) after watching the shooting clinic we put on tonight.
BJ Stith is an athletically gifted player but has some serious flaws in his jump shot. Looks like he is not releasing the ball at the top of his jump shot. Early ball release with the arm movement and shot happening during his elevation. Having to deal with the extra momentum of the jump and arm swing at the same time is probably why he has developed the high arc on his shot. This may explain why his free throws are consistent and the jumpshot horrendous. During the BT and JJ era, seems like we have had our share of athletic players with flawed shot mechanics. Freeman and Bacote were exceptions. Trey could teach a clinic on how to shoot a jump shot. Square up, great hand placement, shoot at top of jump, rotation on the ball, follow through, and come down in same place and don't drift.
I really like Caver and Haynes, but if you look close, Haynes has a quirky jump shot where he does not square up and shoots almost from his side. I think he was 1 for 11 tonight. On the free throw line Haynes squares up better and seems to shoot OK. Caver's shot has almost no arc. That leaves you a pretty small target and no margin for error. Turn the clock back a few years back, and it drove me crazy to watch Palmore shoot with no ball rotation and choose the more complex floata instead of the jump shot as his go to. Baker and Talley may be the only two on the team that have decent shot mechanics.
I'd love to think the boys are just going through a collective team shooting slump, but I'm thinking it's a bit deeper than that. So I will pack the prilocsec and tums, enjoy the great team defense, and get excited about some pure shooters (Hueitt and Godwin) coming in next year.

Nice post. Always appreciate someone breaking down the mechanics that the untrained eye (aka, me) would usually miss. Is it too late to fix?

As we're breaking down Stith's jumpshot, I wish I had access to all of the film and I wonder if we keep advanced statistics. It seems to me that his shot his much better off the dribble than in a catch and shoot situation. I think 8ball might be on to something regarding the early ball release, and it's entirely possible that "loading up" off the dribble takes a split second longer, and thereby, allows him to get to the top of his jump before releasing the ball.

I think 8ball's also right about Haynes and the fact that he doesn't always square to the basket. I think the same thing happens to Fields. These guys simply aren't squaring their shoulders.

What really confounds me, though, is that the guys like Bryant Stith and Dave Twardzik have forgotten more about shot mechanics than I'll ever know. Are they working with the guys on these flaws? Surely, if we see them, so do they.

Props to Jordan, though, he's remade his shot and is shooting the ball much better. If he can be a 38-40% guy all year, that will really help us.

Nice analysis 8 Ball. I do think Cavers shot looks good, but it is a bit flat, as you mentioned. I noticed Baker REALLY cleaned up his shot mechanics over the summer so I'm curious if he worked with anyone.

To me, Haynes seems to drift away from the basket at times. I hadn't noticed any flaws with Fields.

Sometimes muscle memory is just tough to overcome. In the game, it could just be they don't really have time to think about it.

Yeah bj shoots in one fluid motion from his sternum on up. So as he's reaching his apex of the jump the ball is leaving. That's a ton of movement to control in one fluid motion. He's overcome that flaw being an amazing athlete but he needs to pull a trey and work with some people. Like many any hours in the gym. That goes for everyone that's doing jumpers.

Posted from mobile device. Hopefully it's coherent.

Players that drift through a shot or otherwise shoot without squaring to the basket are inevitably streak/rhythm shooters...multiple moving parts have to align to effect a repeatable shot. It also requires a strong release from the hand to create the desired direction/arc/spin combination that the shooter desires.

Its actually common in b-ball, but it generally works best in high-tempo, unstructured games where early misses by a player are not as detrimental, but not at all desireable in ODU's low-tempo, highly structered game plan.

Caver's shot generally looks good, but it's not consistent yet. He had a three from the corner in the second half that was a line drive.

Regarding Stith "loading up" off the dribble--that's a good point. Not that a FT is "off the dribble", but it's a routine, as is shooting off the dribble in a game--you can set yourself up for the shot. A catch and shoot can sometimes be more difficult because you're at the mercy of where the feed comes in. And if Stith has a lot of motion in his shot, if that pass is a little off, then everything is off.

He got some bench time in the second half last night, but Jones puts him in late because he trusts his FT shooting. That's something.

Fields doesn't really look to shoot (hello Brion Dunlap!), so I think a lot of his shots come in situations where he's forced to just get a shot off--he had one last night as shot clock was running down.

Also--Trey Porter--dude, you are 6'10. If you catch a pass at shoulder level or higher (or a rebound), don't bring the ball down. No power dribble needed.