(12-02-2016 09:41 AM)jrj84105 Wrote: (12-02-2016 12:56 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote: (11-30-2016 10:06 PM)jrj84105 Wrote: How much longer do Kansas, Iowa State, and Missouri hold onto AAU status?
you really do not understand how the AAU evaluates universities or the methods they use
they do not come close to simply looking at "gross research dollars" nor do they look at "gross federal research dollars" or even a subset of federal research dollars in specific fields like life sciences that the AAU does place more weight on
they normalize research dollars for things like the number of research faculty that a university employees
they also evaluate based on the make up of the university like having a medical school or not, having a large college of engineering and or do they have a large college of natural sciences that conducts a lot of their research and little to no engineering programs
then they compare PEER universities they do not simply compare dramatically dissimilar universities with dramatically different missions
then there is the fact that they look at a large number of factors besides research at all and again they compare "peer to peer" and "like to like" and "mission to mission"
so Nebraska with no medical school and one of only two "research" public universities in the state of Nebraska and 4 public universities total in Nebraska was not compared to UCLA that is a large urban university with a medical school and one of 26+ public universities in California and one of 8+ public research/PhD granting universities in California
nor was Nebraska compared to Tulane with a medical school and a private university or to Rice without a medical school and a private university
they compare to AAU and non-AAU members and then after the comparisons are done they do not just pick what some would consider the "best" or the ones with the highest scores or rankings in different categories
they pick the "best" from a diverse group of dissimilar universities with different missions that have shown they have a commitment to the long term goals of the AAU as well as being superior at meeting their mission as compared to other similar universities
so the AAU is never going to be simply all the universities that do the most research in gross dollars or ever per faculty member or federal dollars or dollars in a specific area or areas
they are going to have some private universities.....some with medical schools....some without....they are going to have urban public universities some with and some without medical schools and some in states with many public universities and perhaps some in states with a few public universities
and then they are going to have some from smaller states that might be in a smaller city with and without a med school
but when compared to similar universities with the same composition and mission both in and out of the AAU they will all be at the top of their peer groups
Todge, there are handful of high enrollment public schools that consistently fall below their peers in about every academic metric- per student research funding, research productivity, faculty positions and honors, selectivity, etc. Those schools are SUNY-Buffalo, ISU, KU, Missouri, and Oregon. The missions of those schools are not unique even accounting for the lack of a medical school. Those schools also don't have the population growth that competing peer universities have to build upon. We know that AAu membership will change over time and that a handful of schools are more precariously included than the rest. So the question of when the next round of changes will occur is perfectly relevant. Unless you think you can pick 3-5 schools that have a higher probability of losing AAU membership?
1. the AAU has already made clear they are not looking to shift their membership and if they do it will not be rapidly
Nebraska had over a decade of notice that the AAU was looking at them and asking them to make improvements or face losing their membership and Nebraska did nothing about it other than make a snap decision to join the Big 10 right before their membership was pulled
so sitting around and pretending that AAU membership will be like conference realignment especially when most of those trying to have that discussion are clueless about hoe the AAU evaluates members is something that a buffoon would do
2. Kansas, Buffalo and Oregon are hardly large public universities they are medium at best
and even in the case of ISU they are one of only 3 public universities in the entire state and the AAU takes that into consideration
3. your assessment of those universities is meaningless because again it is based on you being clueless about how the AAU makes their evaluations
in the case of KU you attempt to say they are "large" and you attempt to say they under perform their peers on research
yet when one looks at the data for Kansas and total research (again not normalizing it and not looking further at the types of research as the AAU would do) KU is #72 on the list for total research
and there are 62 AAU members
so a moron would say "see they are 10 places out of what should be in the AAU
but of course said moron is also ignoring that the AAU will normalize those numbers, they will look at the types of research and most importantly (what you and others can't ever seem to grasp) is the AAU will then compare KU to SIMILAR universities both in and out of the AAU.......they will not just compare them to the MD Anderson Cancer Center, Woods Hole Oceanographic Research center, UMass Medical School, UT Southwestern Medical Center, Yeshiva, Oregon health and Science U, Baylor College of Medicine, Scripps Research Institute, Uniformed Services U of The Health Sciences or a number of other institutions that are above them because those institutions are NOTHING like The University of Kansas and a comparison between them would be MEANINGLESS
3. the AAU does not care about "population growth"......in fact again what you simply can't seem to comprehend is that the AAU is not looking to be an organization made up of the largest universities in the largest states that do the most research
in fact they are specifically looking to NOT BE THAT
they are looking for universities that represent the best among dramatically differing universities in different areas
they know that lots of people have moved to Florida and they know lots of people live in California and Texas and they know that lots of people have moved to Arizona or others places.....they are simply not impressed by that nor are they trying to get more "viewers" so they can start an AAU network
only morons think it works like that
they did not boot Nebraska because Nebraska is a small state with small population growth they booted Nebraska because Nebraska was medium sized public land grant university that never leveraged their land grant status to move away from actual on the farm and practical farm research into life sciences research
nor did they leverage their practical mechanical research into other areas of engineering with more impact on the entire USA and the world
and Syracuse choose to leave (before being voted out) because they moved from a private university with a large research profile in areas of national relevance to a university that wanted to focus on "how can Syracuse be a good neighbor to the city of Syracuse" and "how can Syracuse U transition from a nationally relevant university to a city university that gives Syracuse kids a chance and gives Syracuse residents some menial custodial jobs"
Nebraska choose to try and fight the AAU on the fact that practical farm research and statutory land grant funding should be counted in their favor (even though it was not for any other AAU land grant member) and that it should be the AAU that changes
and Syracuse choose to not try and fight the fact that the AAU wants NATIONALLY relevant universities instead of good city schools with lots of make work jobs and narrow research focuses on the needs of one dying city (that Syracuse ignored forever as it died)
you are trying to ignore things like the fact that ISU was where the modern electronic computer started and it was the home of the Manhattan Project and that they do a great deal of life sciences research that is relevant across the globe
the AAU understands this.....you clearly do not and probably never will because you seem to view the AAU like a football conference while the AAU views themselves completely different and in a way that you will seemingly never grasp
does that mean that any members of the AAU are just sitting there doing nothing waiting to get the boot or that the AAU from time to time does not discuss members "keeping up"
no of course not that is why Missouri has a study where they evaluate themselves relative to other AAU and non-AA members and they look for where they might improve and how they have come to lag in those areas
that is why Oregon is building a new $1b life sciences research complex that fill night just gave $500 million to
that is why CU is constantly evaluating their state funding shortages and comparing them especially to AAU members
that is why Rice built a new bio sciences building across the street from the TMC several years back
but again the AAU is not just sitting there with a graphic and teeing up the next 2 or 4 members and telling them "they gone" without dramatic changes or even if they do make changes because the population in their area will not help the AAU Network or the dollars from ESPN
they have made CLEAR they are NOT doing that AT ALL
but some simply fail to understand that....like you
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New research rankings for FY15 - released this month
