(11-30-2016 02:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  So, for you guys who are canceling, what are the actions/results that will bring you back? Will just firing Bailiff be enough, or will you wait until the new coach wins X number of games, or what? If it is X number games, how many? If it is something else, like playing freshmen or trying onside kicks, see if you and quantify or define it. Just curious.

Firing Bailiff would bring me back. The problem is, I have no other tangible way to express my frustration. If I had another way, I would take it. I hate that stopping my Owl Club contributions (which I will emphasize, are quite meager in comparison to others) harms the student athletes. I hope it slightly makes up for it that I am re-directing them to SIGs. But I have to vote with my feet on this one. I mean, if the University administration decided it was going to reduce all admission requirements by 25% in an effort to grow the undergrad population to 12,000 students, I would stop contributing to the Annual Fund. That's my best analogy to how I feel about the decision to retain Bailiff.

I think Walt and 69/70/75 make good points regarding "the plan". I think we need to be told what "the plan" is with regards to Rice football, and why we should believe in it. It isn't like they would be revealing state secrets here, just tell the fans what the hell is going on! We're too smart of a fanbase to be placated with milquetoast statements that are completely devoid of details. Telling fans what the plan is harms nothing. If the plan is to continue facility upgrades, and changing coaches would have put those efforts at risk, then there is no harm in saying so. I would disagree with the decision, but at least I could appreciate the thought process. Right now, it just looks like Rice has decided that Bailiff is either good enough, or as good as Rice can get, and I think a significant chunk of the fanbase disagrees with both of those assessments.

(11-30-2016 05:43 AM)exowlswimmer Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 03:15 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 02:08 PM)mrbig Wrote:  No season tickets, but emailed saying that I would not contribute to Owl Club.

6/5

8/6.

I'll donate to sports that are actually trying to succeed (basketball, baseball, swimming).

???? Rice dropped swimming in 1999!

Just yours.

(11-30-2016 07:51 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 02:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  So, for you guys who are canceling, what are the actions/results that will bring you back? Will just firing Bailiff be enough, or will you wait until the new coach wins X number of games, or what? If it is X number games, how many? If it is something else, like playing freshmen or trying onside kicks, see if you and quantify or define it. Just curious.

Show me a plan, show me how it can work, and convince me that the person in charge of executing it can make it work. Do that, and I will gladly help you make it work. Without that, I'm out.

If Bailiff can show me a plan, make me believe it can work, and convince me that he is the person who can make it work, then I see no reason to fire him. But he's had ten years and he still hasn't gotten to square one in doing so.

So what kind of plan details do you want from a new coach? That we will play harder and play smarter, and never quit? Because that is what we will hear at the press conference. How about if he says we will play THIS offense and THAT defense? If you like this and that, then are you back. Or do you want to see on the field evidence that his plan will work? Personally, if I left because of Bailiff and the current program, I wouldn't be back until the team had won 11 games in a season or got a P5 spot. Anything less is just rinse and repeat.

But I'm not leaving, so it is moot.

(11-30-2016 11:02 AM)mrbig Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 02:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  So, for you guys who are canceling, what are the actions/results that will bring you back? Will just firing Bailiff be enough, or will you wait until the new coach wins X number of games, or what? If it is X number games, how many? If it is something else, like playing freshmen or trying onside kicks, see if you and quantify or define it. Just curious.

Firing Bailiff would bring me back.

Just firing Bailiff? You would come back just on faith and hope that a new face would lead us out of the woods?

If you determine that your car is leaking coolant because of a faulty hose, it is not enough to just take out the bad hose. You must also install a good hose, and install it correctly, before the car can run right.

In this analogy, you have decided to pay the mechanic after the bad hose is taken out, but before a new one that works is installed.

And water hoses that work are a lot easier to find than football coaches that work.

(11-30-2016 11:32 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:02 AM)mrbig Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 02:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  So, for you guys who are canceling, what are the actions/results that will bring you back? Will just firing Bailiff be enough, or will you wait until the new coach wins X number of games, or what? If it is X number games, how many? If it is something else, like playing freshmen or trying onside kicks, see if you and quantify or define it. Just curious.

Firing Bailiff would bring me back.

Just firing Bailiff? You would come back just on faith and hope that a new face would lead us out of the woods?

If you determine that your car is leaking coolant because of a faulty hose, it is not enough to just take out the bad hose. You must also install a good hose, and install it correctly, before the car can run right.

In this analogy, you have decided to pay the mechanic after the bad hose is taken out, but before a new one that works is installed.

And water hoses that work are a lot easier to find than football coaches that work.

All you've got is faith and hope - as your username indicates - and you're back year after year for no better reason than that. Yet you criticize that in others?

(11-30-2016 11:32 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:02 AM)mrbig Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 02:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  So, for you guys who are canceling, what are the actions/results that will bring you back? Will just firing Bailiff be enough, or will you wait until the new coach wins X number of games, or what? If it is X number games, how many? If it is something else, like playing freshmen or trying onside kicks, see if you and quantify or define it. Just curious.

Firing Bailiff would bring me back.

Just firing Bailiff? You would come back just on faith and hope that a new face would lead us out of the woods?

If you determine that your car is leaking coolant because of a faulty hose, it is not enough to just take out the bad hose. You must also install a good hose, and install it correctly, before the car can run right.

In this analogy, you have decided to pay the mechanic after the bad hose is taken out, but before a new one that works is installed.

And water hoses that work are a lot easier to find than football coaches that work.

At this point, some of us are just hoping to settle for a car owner that realizes we have a faulty hose in the first place. Baby steps.

(11-30-2016 11:32 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:02 AM)mrbig Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 02:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  So, for you guys who are canceling, what are the actions/results that will bring you back? Will just firing Bailiff be enough, or will you wait until the new coach wins X number of games, or what? If it is X number games, how many? If it is something else, like playing freshmen or trying onside kicks, see if you and quantify or define it. Just curious.

Firing Bailiff would bring me back.

Just firing Bailiff? You would come back just on faith and hope that a new face would lead us out of the woods?

If you determine that your car is leaking coolant because of a faulty hose, it is not enough to just take out the bad hose. You must also install a good hose, and install it correctly, before the car can run right.

In this analogy, you have decided to pay the mechanic after the bad hose is taken out, but before a new one that works is installed.

And water hoses that work are a lot easier to find than football coaches that work.

I disagree with the analogy and the opinion. I think Rice can find a better coach than Bailiff at the current funding level, facilities, and fanbase. Maybe they stay, maybe they don't. Maybe they are successful, maybe they aren't. But I would rather take the chance on failing even worse than continue down the current path, which clearly is not a path to sustained football competitiveness.

But reasonable minds can differ. Obviously there are caveats to my comment as well. If they fire Bailiff and bring back Driesbach as the head coach, I would not change my stance. If they hired a severly morally-compromised individual like Briles, I would not change my stance. But if they hired just about any other football coach who had even a glimmer of a chance of improving Rice's long-term football fortunes, I would be back in a heartbeat. And incidentally, while I don't expect to happen, I still hope Bailiff somehow proves us doubters wrong.

(11-30-2016 11:26 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 07:51 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Show me a plan, show me how it can work, and convince me that the person in charge of executing it can make it work. Do that, and I will gladly help you make it work. Without that, I'm out.
If Bailiff can show me a plan, make me believe it can work, and convince me that he is the person who can make it work, then I see no reason to fire him. But he's had ten years and he still hasn't gotten to square one in doing so.

So what kind of plan details do you want from a new coach? That we will play harder and play smarter, and never quit? Because that is what we will hear at the press conference. How about if he says we will play THIS offense and THAT defense? If you like this and that, then are you back. Or do you want to see on the field evidence that his plan will work? Personally, if I left because of Bailiff and the current program, I wouldn't be back until the team had won 11 games in a season or got a P5 spot. Anything less is just rinse and repeat.
But I'm not leaving, so it is moot.

What kind of plan? Tell me how he plans to win football games. What is his philosophy of winning football. Tell me how he plans to implement it. Tell me enough that I can understand what he is doing.

Example: Fred Goldsmith came in at a low point in the program. He was very specific about his approach. Play sound defense, win the kicking game, and have a good quarterback, and you can beat anybody. Recruit anywhere that's a non-stop flight from Hobby Airport. He didn't have great success immediately, but it was easy to see the pieces falling into place, and ultimately he did turn things around. Mike Rhoades was another. He told us how he was going to approach things, and then started doing them that way. He hasn't gotten there yet, but we can see the pieces coming together. Wayne Graham was another. Told us what he was going to do, then went and did it. I'm hoping Tina Langley will be another. So far, so good.

David Bailiff has been here ten years, and I don't have a clue what his plan is, beyond recruit better and keep plugging square pegs into round holes until they fit. Can anybody express coherently what his philosophical concept is? He seems to want a conservative approach, but conservative coaches typically build their teams around defense and the kicking game, and for the most part we've been godawful in both areas.

Boz was a weapon but we didn't protect and got too many kicks blocked, and when he graduated to the NFL we didn't replace him with another weapon. Similar with Martens, we didn't put the rest of the punting game together well around him, and when he graduated we didn't find another to replace him.

What in the hell is he trying to do? I get that he's trying to be a nice guy and get everybody to like him, but that doesn't put points on any scoreboard that I know of.

(11-30-2016 11:42 AM)mrbig Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:32 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:02 AM)mrbig Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 02:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  So, for you guys who are canceling, what are the actions/results that will bring you back? Will just firing Bailiff be enough, or will you wait until the new coach wins X number of games, or what? If it is X number games, how many? If it is something else, like playing freshmen or trying onside kicks, see if you and quantify or define it. Just curious.

Firing Bailiff would bring me back.

Just firing Bailiff? You would come back just on faith and hope that a new face would lead us out of the woods?

If you determine that your car is leaking coolant because of a faulty hose, it is not enough to just take out the bad hose. You must also install a good hose, and install it correctly, before the car can run right.

In this analogy, you have decided to pay the mechanic after the bad hose is taken out, but before a new one that works is installed.

And water hoses that work are a lot easier to find than football coaches that work.

I disagree with the analogy and the opinion. I think Rice can find a better coach than Bailiff at the current funding level, facilities, and fanbase. Maybe they stay, maybe they don't. Maybe they are successful, maybe they aren't. But I would rather take the chance on failing even worse than continue down the current path, which clearly is not a path to sustained football competitiveness.

But reasonable minds can differ. Obviously there are caveats to my comment as well. If they fire Bailiff and bring back Driesbach as the head coach, I would not change my stance. If they hired a severly morally-compromised individual like Briles, I would not change my stance. But if they hired just about any other football coach who had even a glimmer of a chance of improving Rice's long-term football fortunes, I would be back in a heartbeat. And incidentally, while I don't expect to happen, I still hope Bailiff somehow proves us doubters wrong.

Well, I just took your statement at face value - that firing bailiff would bring you back. As somebody else as remarked, maybe I am too literal sometimes.

So, say they fire Bailiff, and hire Freddy Allsmiles, the RB coach from Southwest Central Hawaii State, are you back then? I wouldn't be. anybody can promise anything, but can freddy deliver? That takes a couple of years or more to discern if it is even possible. Say Freddy takes us to records of 5-7, 7-6(bowl loss), and 5-7, and then is fired. Do you come back then? What about when Joey Goodtalk from Northern Central Mineapolis State is hired?

IF I dropped my support for Rice over football performance, I would demand a vastly improved football performance before I came back. Not just hope, not just promises. IMO, I would ask for an 11 win season or a P5 invite. Anything less we are just revisiting old territory. Been there, done that, didn't get the gold ring. I am slow to leave my alma mater, but I would be equally slow in coming back.

JMHO, I asked for yours, and I thank you for giving it. I appreciate your input.

I want to see something that I can believe in. I don't believe that the approach I see from David Bailiff can get it done.

(11-30-2016 11:56 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:42 AM)mrbig Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:32 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:02 AM)mrbig Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 02:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  So, for you guys who are canceling, what are the actions/results that will bring you back? Will just firing Bailiff be enough, or will you wait until the new coach wins X number of games, or what? If it is X number games, how many? If it is something else, like playing freshmen or trying onside kicks, see if you and quantify or define it. Just curious.

Firing Bailiff would bring me back.

Just firing Bailiff? You would come back just on faith and hope that a new face would lead us out of the woods?

If you determine that your car is leaking coolant because of a faulty hose, it is not enough to just take out the bad hose. You must also install a good hose, and install it correctly, before the car can run right.

In this analogy, you have decided to pay the mechanic after the bad hose is taken out, but before a new one that works is installed.

And water hoses that work are a lot easier to find than football coaches that work.

I disagree with the analogy and the opinion. I think Rice can find a better coach than Bailiff at the current funding level, facilities, and fanbase. Maybe they stay, maybe they don't. Maybe they are successful, maybe they aren't. But I would rather take the chance on failing even worse than continue down the current path, which clearly is not a path to sustained football competitiveness.

But reasonable minds can differ. Obviously there are caveats to my comment as well. If they fire Bailiff and bring back Driesbach as the head coach, I would not change my stance. If they hired a severly morally-compromised individual like Briles, I would not change my stance. But if they hired just about any other football coach who had even a glimmer of a chance of improving Rice's long-term football fortunes, I would be back in a heartbeat. And incidentally, while I don't expect to happen, I still hope Bailiff somehow proves us doubters wrong.

Well, I just took your statement at face value - that firing bailiff would bring you back. As somebody else as remarked, maybe I am too literal sometimes.

So, say they fire Bailiff, and hire Freddy Allsmiles, the RB coach from Southwest Central Hawaii State, are you back then? I wouldn't be. anybody can promise anything, but can freddy deliver? That takes a couple of years or more to discern if it is even possible. Say Freddy takes us to records of 5-7, 7-6(bowl loss), and 5-7, and then is fired. Do you come back then? What about when Joey Goodtalk from Northern Central Mineapolis State is hired?

IF I dropped my support for Rice over football performance, I would demand a vastly improved football performance before I came back. Not just hope, not just promises. IMO, I would ask for an 11 win season or a P5 invite. Anything less we are just revisiting old territory. Been there, done that, didn't get the gold ring. I am slow to leave my alma mater, but I would be equally slow in coming back.

JMHO, I asked for yours, and I thank you for giving it. I appreciate your input.

I don't support sticking with the status quo for fear of taking risks. I don't care who they hire when they eventually replace Bailiff, as long as it is a coach with a plan to WIN games and contend for championships.

Go watch Tom Herman's news conference from Texas if you want an example. He laid out his plan pretty clearly.

Bailiff has lost more games than he has won. He will continue to do so. As I said, right now our plan is to run an intramural program. Oh who cares about our record, the kids have fun and Bailiff is nice to them! He "gets" Rice! What a good guy he is!

I have no interest in supporting anything that does not include "WINNING" as a major part of the equation.

(11-30-2016 11:56 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Well, I just took your statement at face value - that firing bailiff would bring you back. As somebody else as remarked, maybe I am too literal sometimes.

So, say they fire Bailiff, and hire Freddy Allsmiles, the RB coach from Southwest Central Hawaii State, are you back then? I wouldn't be. anybody can promise anything, but can freddy deliver? That takes a couple of years or more to discern if it is even possible. Say Freddy takes us to records of 5-7, 7-6(bowl loss), and 5-7, and then is fired. Do you come back then? What about when Joey Goodtalk from Northern Central Mineapolis State is hired?

IF I dropped my support for Rice over football performance, I would demand a vastly improved football performance before I came back. Not just hope, not just promises. IMO, I would ask for an 11 win season or a P5 invite. Anything less we are just revisiting old territory. Been there, done that, didn't get the gold ring. I am slow to leave my alma mater, but I would be equally slow in coming back.

JMHO, I asked for yours, and I thank you for giving it. I appreciate your input.

I am not dropping my support for Rice over football performance, I am dropping my support for Rice football and the athletic department in globo over the athletic department's decision to retain Bailiff and maintain the status quo. Bailiff has been here 10 years, so your hypotheticals of Freddy Allsmiles and Joey Goodtalk are terrible analogies. Freddy and Joey would get my support, but if they couldn't get it done, then I would be ready to withdraw my support again. Probably not after 3 years though unless they were 3 horrible years. Again, Bailiff has been here for 10 years! If Bailiff had only been here for 5 or 6 years, I think his 2012-2014 stretch is decent enough to justify giving him another year. I wouldn't love it, but I wouldn't be talking about withdrawing support either.

(11-30-2016 12:04 PM)RiceFootball2K5 Wrote:  Go watch Tom Herman's news conference from Texas if you want an example. He laid out his plan pretty clearly.

Exactly.

Tom had two moments during the Q&A that struck chords with me. Paraphrasing both here.

First he was asked what he learned from David Bailiff. He said he learned how to love players, and how important it was to love them.

Several questions later, he was asked about how he planned to win over the players who loved Charlie Strong so much. He said that he was going to love them, he and his staff were going to tell them that they loved them and they were going to show them that they loved them, by spending time with them. But he was also going to have high expectations of them. Winning is hard work, and they deserve to win, so he was probably going to work them harder than they had ever been worked before. But he was going to make sure they understood that's what it took to win.

(11-29-2016 08:43 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 03:30 PM)Middle Ages Wrote:  I agree with this and I wonder what further starving the program will accomplish. As much as no one on here wants to believe it, the complete negligence on the part of the BOT to fund the football program as an FBS program is a much bigger reason for our failures than Bailiff. But bring out your pitchforks- he's an easy target.

Honest questions....

1) You and I went round and round on the firing of Willis, so how/why is this different? I'm not really going to debate your opinion... we all have them... I just want to know what differences YOU see (as opposed to the ones I do)

2) to the 'proper funding' question, if we had $1.5-3mm to spend on a coach... would you spend it on Bailiff? If so, why isn't anyone else? If not, why wouldn't you want someone that was worth more than we are paying for them?

As shocked/surprised/disappointed as I am... there is far more to these sorts of things than we'd like to admit/believe. It is what it is. I'm just trying to figure out the difference between accepting that 'this' is our current lot in life, vs 'this' is all we should expect, even if some dynamics change.

If we take our head coach from 400-900k and we aren't taking our coordinators from 150-300 or assistants from 100-200... maybe THAT is the problem.

Sorry Ham- just getting to this.

on #1- I really don't remember us going round and round about WW. I went back and looked at archived posts and couldn't find anything- though that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I just don't remember. What I did get was a little nostalgic looking at those old threads. Seemed more civil back then. I miss reading stompclapwhoosh, emmiesix, former owl dad, armychick, and others- notably of course Ricedoc. I don't miss sportdude.

#2- My answer is not that meaningful because that's not reality. If we were spending that much on a HC then the rest of the coaches and overall budget would also be different/higher. I think your last comment is right. We have taken care of Bailiff but haven't really given him the tools (i.e. money for assistants, recruiting, etc) to succeed. As for the question of why doesn't he give some of his salary to the assistants- well I don't know but if that's really what it would come to then that is a terrible commentary on the program. Yes he is well paid in comparison to CUSA, but not for CFB in general, and this is his life. How many of us would do that?

(11-30-2016 12:15 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:56 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Well, I just took your statement at face value - that firing bailiff would bring you back. As somebody else as remarked, maybe I am too literal sometimes.

So, say they fire Bailiff, and hire Freddy Allsmiles, the RB coach from Southwest Central Hawaii State, are you back then? I wouldn't be. anybody can promise anything, but can freddy deliver? That takes a couple of years or more to discern if it is even possible. Say Freddy takes us to records of 5-7, 7-6(bowl loss), and 5-7, and then is fired. Do you come back then? What about when Joey Goodtalk from Northern Central Mineapolis State is hired?

IF I dropped my support for Rice over football performance, I would demand a vastly improved football performance before I came back. Not just hope, not just promises. IMO, I would ask for an 11 win season or a P5 invite. Anything less we are just revisiting old territory. Been there, done that, didn't get the gold ring. I am slow to leave my alma mater, but I would be equally slow in coming back.

JMHO, I asked for yours, and I thank you for giving it. I appreciate your input.

I am not dropping my support for Rice over football performance, I am dropping my support for Rice football and the athletic department in globo over the athletic department's decision to retain Bailiff and maintain the status quo. Bailiff has been here 10 years, so your hypotheticals of Freddy Allsmiles and Joey Goodtalk are terrible analogies. Freddy and Joey would get my support, but if they couldn't get it done, then I would be ready to withdraw my support again. Probably not after 3 years though unless they were 3 horrible years. Again, Bailiff has been here for 10 years! If Bailiff had only been here for 5 or 6 years, I think his 2012-2014 stretch is decent enough to justify giving him another year. I wouldn't love it, but I wouldn't be talking about withdrawing support either.

We are getting far afield here. Not questioning your lack of support for Bailiff, just your criteria for reinstatement of the financial support for Rice that you will withhold to express that. I think Jpoey and Freddy are just examples of of new guys coming in saying all the good things, as every coach does, but most cannot deliver. I would wait until they deleiver, IF I withdrew it in the first place. But I regard my support as support of Rice, Not David, not Joey, not Freddy. When Frank Makesgood does what he promises, i would come back. IF I left over performance. Just me. Not going to come back on faith and promises.

Everybody has their own reasons for staying or leaving. I would be one hard to drive away, and even harder to entice back.

(11-30-2016 12:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  We are getting far afield here. Not questioning your lack of support for Bailiff, just your criteria for reinstatement of the financial support for Rice that you will withhold to express that. I think Jpoey and Freddy are just examples of of new guys coming in saying all the good things, as every coach does, but most cannot deliver. I would wait until they deleiver, IF I withdrew it in the first place. But I regard my support as support of Rice, Not David, not Joey, not Freddy. When Frank Makesgood does what he promises, i would come back. IF I left over performance. Just me. Not going to come back on faith and promises.

Everybody has their own reasons for staying or leaving. I would be one hard to drive away, and even harder to entice back.

OK. I was ready for Bailiff to be fired after 2010, so I have waited 6 years and he has had 10 total years. I'm not driven away that easily. And of course, the improved 2012-14 stretch bought him at least a little slack from me, though I would still have been happy to take my chances elsewhere since I still was not convinced Rice could stay close to the 2013 level under him. But I'll be easy to win back for football.

(11-30-2016 01:00 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 12:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  We are getting far afield here. Not questioning your lack of support for Bailiff, just your criteria for reinstatement of the financial support for Rice that you will withhold to express that. I think Jpoey and Freddy are just examples of of new guys coming in saying all the good things, as every coach does, but most cannot deliver. I would wait until they deleiver, IF I withdrew it in the first place. But I regard my support as support of Rice, Not David, not Joey, not Freddy. When Frank Makesgood does what he promises, i would come back. IF I left over performance. Just me. Not going to come back on faith and promises.

Everybody has their own reasons for staying or leaving. I would be one hard to drive away, and even harder to entice back.

OK. I was ready for Bailiff to be fired after 2010, so I have waited 6 years and he has had 10 total years. I'm not driven away that easily. And of course, the improved 2012-14 stretch bought him at least a little slack from me, though I would still have been happy to take my chances elsewhere since I still was not convinced Rice could stay close to the 2013 level under him. But I'll be easy to win back for football.

Since 2010, Rice is 37-39, with 2-23 record against teams that finished with 8+ wins.

(11-30-2016 01:00 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 12:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  We are getting far afield here. Not questioning your lack of support for Bailiff, just your criteria for reinstatement of the financial support for Rice that you will withhold to express that. I think Jpoey and Freddy are just examples of of new guys coming in saying all the good things, as every coach does, but most cannot deliver. I would wait until they deleiver, IF I withdrew it in the first place. But I regard my support as support of Rice, Not David, not Joey, not Freddy. When Frank Makesgood does what he promises, i would come back. IF I left over performance. Just me. Not going to come back on faith and promises.

Everybody has their own reasons for staying or leaving. I would be one hard to drive away, and even harder to entice back.

OK. I was ready for Bailiff to be fired after 2010, so I have waited 6 years and he has had 10 total years. I'm not driven away that easily. And of course, the improved 2012-14 stretch bought him at least a little slack from me, though I would still have been happy to take my chances elsewhere since I still was not convinced Rice could stay close to the 2013 level under him. But I'll be easy to win back for football.

I have been ready for some years for a change, and am shocked we are not getting it this year. I thought it was a done deal, and said so here several times. But I see withholding financial support as having little or no impact on the football coaching decision(s), only a negative one on the University and the athletic department. I could be wrong. Maybe reduced Owl club giving will panic the powers that be into rethinking their decision to keep bailiff. My guess is that it will not. It seems like 2017 is the make or break for Bailiff that I thought 2016 was. I expect break. Again.

My grandson is a disappointment to me. he is a slacker with no ambition. should I cut him out of my will until he shows some gumption? I see this as a similar decision. Maybe I will follow the crowd and cut both him and rice out. But for now, it is neither.

(11-30-2016 12:38 PM)Middle Ages Wrote:  Sorry Ham- just getting to this.

on #1- I really don't remember us going round and round about WW. I went back and looked at archived posts and couldn't find anything- though that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I just don't remember. What I did get was a little nostalgic looking at those old threads. Seemed more civil back then. I miss reading stompclapwhoosh, emmiesix, former owl dad, armychick, and others- notably of course Ricedoc. I don't miss sportdude.

Nope, you're right. It was Bay Area Owl. I'm sorry.

Agreed on the other posters

Quote:#2- My answer is not that meaningful because that's not reality. If we were spending that much on a HC then the rest of the coaches and overall budget would also be different/higher. I think your last comment is right. We have taken care of Bailiff but haven't really given him the tools (i.e. money for assistants, recruiting, etc) to succeed. As for the question of why doesn't he give some of his salary to the assistants- well I don't know but if that's really what it would come to then that is a terrible commentary on the program. Yes he is well paid in comparison to CUSA, but not for CFB in general, and this is his life. How many of us would do that?

Maybe I didn't ask it correctly. I'm trying to get your perspective (or anyone else's) on what we would do if we GOT what many people ask for. What I'm asking is that if a Rice donor decided to pull a Tillman Fertitta, or the Trustees decided to spend more on athletics, would you suggest we keep Bailiff or hire someone else? While it may not be the reality, it is certainly something that SOME people have suggested needs to happen... MOSTLY (and this is important) those who supported keeping Bailiff.

Yes, I agree it isn't his responsibility to do so... you're asking how many of us would do so... Some of us do similar things all the time. You're investing in a 'business'. That business is 'David Bailiff'. Certainly he is PERFECTLY entitled to take what he earns and 'take his chances' with recruiting and assistants and if it fails, blame it on the lack of support for recruiting and assistants, but at the end of the day, he's still likely looking for another job with a mediocre w/l record on his resume. I'd certainly CONSIDER it, IF I agreed that was the problem. Of course if it isn't, then that's another issue. Perhaps what I'm asking is rather than debate this with us internally... if DAVID really feels like these are the issues. As I recall, when he made far less, he shared 20-25% of his salary with his assistants. He may well be doing that now for all we know.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying he owes anyone anything. I'm asking if it might not be a wise move on his part?

Let's say he diverted some of his salary this year to get some GREAT coordinators who take us to a bowl next year (not an outlandish expectation given we COULD have won 5 this year and we add UAB next year) and then compete for the conf championship in 2018, the last year of his contract.... He would have PROVED his point and if WE wouldn't pay him AND his staff, I'm betting someone else would.

Actually it almost argues that if he doesn't do something like that and succeeds, that he should have made changes far sooner.... and if he fails, he's likely gone anyway and taking a paycut.

It's an academic question that leads to wondering how serious people are about the idea that it's not Bailiff, but his assistants or recruiting budgets. I honestly have no idea what the answer is... but if it really is those issues, then I wonder if David has considered making an investment in his career? Heck, maybe make it part of the new assistants contract. You get 200 this year, but if you help me turn it around so that we get an extension, I'll bump you 50-100k.

(11-30-2016 01:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  It's an academic question that leads to wondering how serious people are about the idea that it's not Bailiff, but his assistants or recruiting budgets. I honestly have no idea what the answer is... but if it really is those issues, then I wonder if David has considered making an investment in his career? Heck, maybe make it part of the new assistants contract. You get 200 this year, but if you help me turn it around so that we get an extension, I'll bump you 50-100k.

I think that Bailiff is a symptom, perhaps intentional, and not a root cause. The choice around football is black and white (or perhaps better characterized as black and red). And much of the angst over conferences I read on these boards is another manifestation of the issue.

The base question that Rice needs to address is whether they want football to be a revenue generator (ala Tulane, Stanford, Vandy) that accretes value to the rest of the sports participation pie, or not. In today's NCAA world you cannot have it both ways.

Problem is a chicken or egg one right now -- does Rice: 1) invest in the program in order to climb out of this dumpster fire conference that will never provide excess funds; or 2) do we go along starving it and blindly hope that it will climb out of the primordial ooze in a grand feat of self-evolution; or 3) is the endgame simply creating such a crap program that when it is downsized or dropped that no discerning "customers" are really left and the blowback in minimized?

I went to all of the home games this year (even being out of town but an easy drive), and my impression is that Bailiff is *not* a coach capable of 2) above. I thought the games that I watched was comparable to watching a mediocre 6a playoff capable team -- no discipline, no execution, and massively focused on basics. In short Bailiff and staff are, in my mind, set in "doing it a certain way" come hell or high water. Thus, they cannot execute what Rice needs: a coaching staff that doesnt get the 5 and 4 stars, but instead finds a mechanism amongst the players the do have to highlight the things that ARE present.

I am sure the administration is aware of the shortcomings. If they aren't then it is too bad that no insurance carrier carries something like DNO liability coverage for an AD office. And I am somewhat aware that I don't think Rice as in institution will make a blind investment like outlined in 1) above.

My present impression is that the status quo *might* get them to the level to jump out of the CUSA cesspool, and will jump if the FB does well enough to earn that seat at the adult's table. But with the (in)action this year regarding Bailiff, it is painfully obvious that they are not going to invest to make that investment jump without the FB program being the first to rise out of the pit. So it seems that the inaction is part and parcel of either branch 2) or branch 3) above.

It is too bad because even being mediocre in a good conference can mean an enormous amount of benefit -- both economically and cachet-wise. But Rice as a whole is painfully ignorant of this. But given how anti-sports Rice was when I was there, I am not too surprised, and this ignorance may in fact be an intention.