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Atlantic Versus Coastal
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Hallcity Offline
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Atlantic Versus Coastal
David Teel ‏@DavidTeelatDP 1h1 hour ago

How's this for balance? Since 2005 advent of @theACCfootball
divisions, Atlantic leads Coastal 101-99 in regular-season crossover games.
11-28-2016 02:41 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: Atlantic Versus Coastal
But I thought the Coastal was soooo much weaker than the Atlantic.....at least that's what I was told many times on this board.
11-28-2016 02:47 PM
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Dasville Offline
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RE: Atlantic Versus Coastal
Wonder how that balanced record breaks down based on permanent crossover vs rotational crossovers?
11-28-2016 03:26 PM
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Yosemite Panther Offline
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RE: Atlantic Versus Coastal
(11-28-2016 02:47 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  But I thought the Coastal was soooo much weaker than the Atlantic.....at least that's what I was told many times on this board.
Pitt just loves playing the Atlantic, a 7-1 record on cross-over games since joining the ACC. 4-0 vs our permanent cross-over (SU) and wins over Clemson, Louisville, and BC with only our first ever ACC game an Atlantic loss vs Jameis/ FSU. We have yet to play NC State and Wake.
11-28-2016 04:57 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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RE: Atlantic Versus Coastal
(11-28-2016 02:47 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  But I thought the Coastal was soooo much weaker than the Atlantic.....at least that's what I was told many times on this board.

Did you take Stats at Carolina?
11-28-2016 06:24 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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RE: Atlantic Versus Coastal
Just for fun -

Atlantic Coastal
Final Final
Ranking Ranking

Orange Bowl Rep in Color

16*
Clemson 3? VT 20
FSU 12
Louisville 16

15
Clemson 3 UNC 15
FSU 14

14
FSU 5 GT 8
Clemson 15
Louisville 24

13
FSU 1 Duke 23
Clemson 8

12
FSU 10
Clemson 11

11
Clemson 22 VT 21
FSU 23

10
FSU 17 VT 16
MD 23
NC State 25

9
CU 24 VT - 18
GT 13
Miami 19

8
FSU 21 VT 15
GT 22

7
BC 10 VT 9
Clemson 21

6
WF 18 VT 19
BC 20

5

BC 18 VT 7
Clemson 21 Miami 17
FSU 23

One of the curious things about stats is how you pick your time periods as a prelude to demonstrating a trend. What good ole Dave finds over the course of a little more than a decade changes when you look at the shift between divisions that occurred in 2010. Prior to 2010 the Coastal and Atlantic were even in teams ranked in the top 25 at the end of the year with VT being the clear standard bearer. From 2010 forward the Atlantic leads the Coastal in the same stats 17-6 with a lone appearance in the top 10 by GT. Conversely FSU and Clemson share 10 top 15 finishes while the Coastal has managed just 2.

Over the past 12 years VT has been ranked while in the Coastal 8 times and GT 3. Over the same term Clemson and FSU have been ranked 9 times each.

You have two established top 10-15 programs in the Atlantic and they have shown clear dominance since 2010. You have single established top 25 program in the Coastal.


Dave needs to call up someone at VT to give him a booster for this stats. Mashing up 12 years to claim equality is foolish. The reality is that the Atlantic was weak in Bowden years and during that time VT dominated the league. The VT domination ended in 2010/11 with the advent of Jimbo and Dabo and with the trade of Lousiville for MD that exaccebates things unless Richt rehabilitates Miami.


* As of now
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2016 07:11 PM by lumberpack4.)
11-28-2016 06:55 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Atlantic Versus Coastal
(11-28-2016 03:26 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Wonder how that balanced record breaks down based on permanent crossover vs rotational crossovers?

Do you think it will paint a different picture?
11-28-2016 07:39 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Atlantic Versus Coastal
Just for fun, I looked up Florida State's record in crossover games. By team, it looks like this:

Miami 10-2
Duke 5-0
UVa 3-2
Va Tech 2-1
UNC 1-2
Ga Tech 0-3
Pitt 1-0
11-28-2016 07:42 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Atlantic Versus Coastal
Off of the top of my head, in 3 years Louisville is 4-2 in our crossovers:

2-1 v Virginia
1-0 v Miami
1-0 v Duke
0-1 v Pitt

Have NC & Virginia next season. IIRC, Louisville is 17-7 v the ACC in 3 seasons.
11-28-2016 08:45 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: Atlantic Versus Coastal
(11-28-2016 06:24 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(11-28-2016 02:47 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  But I thought the Coastal was soooo much weaker than the Atlantic.....at least that's what I was told many times on this board.

Did you take Stats at Carolina?

Nope. Calculus, Diff. Equations, Matrix Theory
11-28-2016 09:09 PM
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Schema Offline
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RE: Atlantic Versus Coastal
If I did this correctly, here are the records of Clemson versus the Coastal since 2005. This includes a loss to Ga Tech (2009), a win against Va Tech (2011), and a win against UNC (2015), in the ACC Championships.

Duke 4-0
Georgia Tech 6-7
Miami 2-2
North Carolina 4-1
Pittsburgh 0-1
Virginia 3-0
Virginia Tech 3-2
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2016 10:49 PM by Schema.)
11-28-2016 09:30 PM
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Hallcity Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Atlantic Versus Coastal
(11-28-2016 06:55 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Just for fun -

Atlantic Coastal
Final Final
Ranking Ranking

Orange Bowl Rep in Color

16*
Clemson 3? VT 20
FSU 12
Louisville 16

15
Clemson 3 UNC 15
FSU 14

14
FSU 5 GT 8
Clemson 15
Louisville 24

13
FSU 1 Duke 23
Clemson 8

12
FSU 10
Clemson 11

11
Clemson 22 VT 21
FSU 23

10
FSU 17 VT 16
MD 23
NC State 25

9
CU 24 VT - 18
GT 13
Miami 19

8
FSU 21 VT 15
GT 22

7
BC 10 VT 9
Clemson 21

6
WF 18 VT 19
BC 20

5

BC 18 VT 7
Clemson 21 Miami 17
FSU 23

One of the curious things about stats is how you pick your time periods as a prelude to demonstrating a trend. What good ole Dave finds over the course of a little more than a decade changes when you look at the shift between divisions that occurred in 2010. Prior to 2010 the Coastal and Atlantic were even in teams ranked in the top 25 at the end of the year with VT being the clear standard bearer. From 2010 forward the Atlantic leads the Coastal in the same stats 17-6 with a lone appearance in the top 10 by GT. Conversely FSU and Clemson share 10 top 15 finishes while the Coastal has managed just 2.

Over the past 12 years VT has been ranked while in the Coastal 8 times and GT 3. Over the same term Clemson and FSU have been ranked 9 times each.

You have two established top 10-15 programs in the Atlantic and they have shown clear dominance since 2010. You have single established top 25 program in the Coastal.


Dave needs to call up someone at VT to give him a booster for this stats. Mashing up 12 years to claim equality is foolish. The reality is that the Atlantic was weak in Bowden years and during that time VT dominated the league. The VT domination ended in 2010/11 with the advent of Jimbo and Dabo and with the trade of Lousiville for MD that exaccebates things unless Richt rehabilitates Miami.


* As of now

You're trying to change the subject. The subject is Atlantic versus Coastal. I think the record in games between the two is a little more relevant than Orange Bowl appearances and rankings of the top teams.
11-28-2016 09:31 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Atlantic Versus Coastal
When the divisions were first set up, the Coastal was the division that had the better records in the 10 years or so before the division split. But what was expected to happen did not. Miami didn't stay at the top to keep pace with FSU. Since the split, the Canes have gone only 2-10 against their permanent crossover rival. That helped give the Atlantic a slight edge until Syracuse and Pitt joined. Pitt's excellent record then brought the two divisions into a virtual tie.

Everything else is pretty predictable. Much of the Atlantic's slim edge comes from FSU and Clemson's dominance of the two weakest Coastal teams - 15-2 versus Duke and Virginia, and FSU's dominance of Miami.

Also predictable are who makes what arguments. Atlantic fans say the performance of the top teams is what define "stronger", and Coastal fans tend to say it is top to bottom balance. That's not likely to ever change.
11-28-2016 09:52 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Atlantic Versus Coastal
(11-28-2016 09:30 PM)Schema Wrote:  If I did this correctly, here are the records of Clemson versus the Coastal since 2005. This includes a loss to Ga Tech (2009), a win against Va Tech (2011), and a win against UNC (2015), in the ACC Championships.

Duke 4-0
Georgia Tech 5-7
Miami 2-2
North Carolina 4-1
Pittsburgh 0-1
Virginia 3-0
Virginia Tech 3-2

I know Clemson vs. VT is correct because I just looked it up today.
11-28-2016 10:10 PM
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gpburdell Offline
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RE: Atlantic Versus Coastal
(11-28-2016 06:55 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  14
FSU 5 GT 8
Clemson 15
Louisville 24

FTFY. In 2014, GT won the Orange Bowl. FSU went to the playoffs. Also, if GT wins their bowl game we have a shot to be ranked end of year.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2016 10:30 PM by gpburdell.)
11-28-2016 10:12 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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RE: Atlantic Versus Coastal
Ken d hits is pretty square.

Here's our perspective:

From 2005-2011 we played 17 games in conference against top 25 team or roughly 2 per year. Only 4 were top 15 games and the average of the ranked schools was 21, 19, 15, 21, 17, 19 and 22.

When MD exited and Louisville replaced them and Syracuse and Pitt joined the last five years has looked as so:

From 2012-2016 we have played 15 games against top 25 teams or 3 per year. 13 were against top 15 schools and 8 against top 10. The average of the ranked schools was 10, 11, 13, 10 and 10. We caught our crossovers ranked 8, 15, and 23 in the past 5 years. In the prior 7 years we caught VT ranked just twice and no one else in the Coastal.

Now if you mash this all up into a 12 year segment it might even out, but then you would be ignoring a trend that began in 2012.

But I do agree that on paper the Coastal is more competitive within itself. They are bunched closer to each other with no team in Clemson's or FSU's class and only UVa as a true bottom feeder. The Atlantic is highly bifurcated with three programs better than the best Coastal, but also with three programs as bad as UVa. Anyone can win the Coastal except UVa. Only Clemson, FSU, and Louisville can win the Atlantic.
11-28-2016 11:31 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Atlantic Versus Coastal
(11-28-2016 03:26 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Wonder how that balanced record breaks down based on permanent crossover vs rotational crossovers?

The Atlantic has a 42-34 edge in permanent crossovers (the same 8 win margin as FSU over Miami), and the Coastal leads in rotational crossovers by 65-59.

Two teams in each division (excluding recent additions Louisville, Pitt and Syracuse) have winning records in crossovers. FSU and Ga Tech are both 22-10 and Clemson and Va Tech are both 20-12. UNC is 16-16 and everyone else has a losing record. The combination of Maryland and their replacement Louisville are also 16-16.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2016 07:59 PM by ken d.)
11-29-2016 10:55 AM
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