Not trying to ask the question from any kind of position of superiority (I'm an Idaho fan, for crying out loud). I'm just honestly curious why NAU hasn't looked to improve its lot. Decent-sized and growing state with only 2 FBS schools, respectable enrollment and endowment. And yet, it's just sort of been a middle-of-the-pack Big Sky school pretty much forever.

(11-28-2016 02:38 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-28-2016 01:59 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  SUU would be my preference, but the northern members would likely want PSU.

So safe to say you'd be against joining SUU, N Colo, NM St, and others in the FCS WAC??

I get that NAU has pretty much always been on an island in the Big Sky, even when Nevada was there (Reno really isn't that close).

Well, NM St wouldn't be in a FCS WAC. And that would not be my preference.

(11-28-2016 03:00 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Not trying to ask the question from any kind of position of superiority (I'm an Idaho fan, for crying out loud). I'm just honestly curious why NAU hasn't looked to improve its lot. Decent-sized and growing state with only 2 FBS schools, respectable enrollment and endowment. And yet, it's just sort of been a middle-of-the-pack Big Sky school pretty much forever.

Money and Fan Support.

NAU sits 2 hours from the main population center. It is tough getting the students interested when they grew up with ASU/Arizona. Add to the state cutting funding, and there is not money for facility improvements.

NAU SHOULD win the Big Sky every year (or at least be top 3) in football - we have huge recruiting area basically shared with Cal Poly (all of So Cal) Plus Arizona.

Some of it is coaching - Steve Axman won, Souers wins enough to keep his job, but never breaks through.

In MBB, being isolated is an issue with recruiting - Flagstaff is a far different world than LA and other basketball hotbeds - one reason Ben Howland had so much success here was that he recruited the smaller towns throughout the west for hidden gems that would feel at home in Flagstaff.


We did just win the NC in Cross-Country :)

NAU has won half of the men's All-Sports Big Sky trophies over the last two decades, and is usually the top one or two Big Sky team in the Directors Cup.

(11-28-2016 01:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Well, you know, other than CSU-B to the Big West and Seattle to the WCC.


Say, how much did you pay him to start this thread?

Or Grand Canyon to and NMSU back to the Big West

I'm kinda surprised the WAC has not made an offer to UCSD. Six months after they passed the D1 referendum, the Big West has yet to invite them. If it gets close to the September 2018 deadline and they are still waiting for their ticket, the WAC should step in (assuming there is a WAC by then). At that point it will be their only path to D1.

(11-28-2016 03:10 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(11-28-2016 03:00 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Not trying to ask the question from any kind of position of superiority (I'm an Idaho fan, for crying out loud). I'm just honestly curious why NAU hasn't looked to improve its lot. Decent-sized and growing state with only 2 FBS schools, respectable enrollment and endowment. And yet, it's just sort of been a middle-of-the-pack Big Sky school pretty much forever.

Money and Fan Support.

NAU sits 2 hours from the main population center. It is tough getting the students interested when they grew up with ASU/Arizona. Add to the state cutting funding, and there is not money for facility improvements.

NAU SHOULD win the Big Sky every year (or at least be top 3) in football - we have huge recruiting area basically shared with Cal Poly (all of So Cal) Plus Arizona.

Some of it is coaching - Steve Axman won, Souers wins enough to keep his job, but never breaks through.

In MBB, being isolated is an issue with recruiting - Flagstaff is a far different world than LA and other basketball hotbeds - one reason Ben Howland had so much success here was that he recruited the smaller towns throughout the west for hidden gems that would feel at home in Flagstaff.


We did just win the NC in Cross-Country :)

NAU has won half of the men's All-Sports Big Sky trophies over the last two decades, and is usually the top one or two Big Sky team in the Directors Cup.

NAU is by far the largest full-time school in the Big Sky. Being the third wheel in the state makes NAU athletics a distant third wheel apparently. They should take lessons from Coastal Carolina and Western Kentucky, who have prospered as 3rd wheels in their respective states. NAU's endowment is not very big, Arizona has historically been tight with education finances, and they school doesn't seem to get much loyalty from their alumni.

Correction: Sacramento St and Portland St have nearly the same enrollment as NAU, but lack fan support and endowment too.

Dixie State, Central Washington, West Texas A&M and some RMAC schools have done some upgrading on their facilities. Dixie State added more seats to 15,000 for football.

Some of the D2 California schools could move up. Azusa Pacific, Humboldt State already have football. If Grand Canyon does add football? GCU and Northern Arizona could be partner up in a conference.

(11-28-2016 03:32 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  I'm kinda surprised the WAC has not made an offer to UCSD. Six months after they passed the D1 referendum, the Big West has yet to invite them. If it gets close to the September 2018 deadline and they are still waiting for their ticket, the WAC should step in (assuming there is a WAC by then). At that point it will be their only path to D1.

You have to wonder if Big West is sitting on a mountain of applications and is in this "paralysis through analysis" state with the Cal and Cal State schools there, with others in the WAC calling in with interest. Because we know all but UMKC are.

Is it a UCSD and CSUB slam dunk for Big West, or does the conference consider moving away from CA?

Regardless, I think the WAC is going to have to get onto this expansion subject. Can it find schools within its current western-heavy footprint, though?

(11-28-2016 04:30 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(11-28-2016 03:32 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  I'm kinda surprised the WAC has not made an offer to UCSD. Six months after they passed the D1 referendum, the Big West has yet to invite them. If it gets close to the September 2018 deadline and they are still waiting for their ticket, the WAC should step in (assuming there is a WAC by then). At that point it will be their only path to D1.

You have to wonder if Big West is sitting on a mountain of applications and is in this "paralysis through analysis" state with the Cal and Cal State schools there, with others in the WAC calling in with interest. Because we know all but UMKC are.

Is it a UCSD and CSUB slam dunk for Big West, or does the conference consider moving away from CA?

Regardless, I think the WAC is going to have to get onto this expansion subject. Can it find schools within its current western-heavy footprint, though?

The conference is not opposed to more members outside CA, provided they can strengthen basketball and throw in a small travel subsidy. At this point everyone in the western half plus NMSU is a possibility. Perhaps only a 10% chance at most for NMSU or Grand Canyon, but still possible nonetheless. CSUB has never really been on the radar, although an NCAA bid followed by a win over the defending MW champs in 2016 may raise some eyebrows.


Surprisingly to everyone following this including myself, UCSD is not a slam dunk. Otherwise they would have been invited by now. The longer this drags out the more likely they are to get shut out. I'm only guessing here but perhaps either they are unwilling/unable to provide FCOA for basketball, or they are unwilling/unable to pay their own way to Hawaii. The BW has reportedly voiced concerns over conference RPI and that UCSD will permanently drag it down, particularly if they join by themselves without NMSU and GCU.

So what the BW does, or doesn't do, impacts the WAC. Would Dixie State want to move up from D2? Can Cal Baptist be persuaded to take the leap if GCU, NMSU and/or CSUB leave? Would a current D1 program like UNO join?

(11-28-2016 03:03 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Well, NM St wouldn't be in a FCS WAC. And that would not be my preference.

Sure they would. Where else would they go? Not the Big Sky. That distance would be like adding a school in Grand Forks, ND.

(11-28-2016 03:26 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Or Grand Canyon to and NMSU back to the Big West

Well, NM St has never been apart of what the Big West now is. What it used to be doesn't exist anymore.

(11-28-2016 03:32 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  I'm kinda surprised the WAC has not made an offer to UCSD. Six months after they passed the D1 referendum, the Big West has yet to invite them.

Maybe it has a standing offer on the table, if/when the Big West decides not to expand.

UCSD's referendum only listed the Big West. If someone else made an offer we would have heard about it by now.

(11-28-2016 03:32 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  I'm kinda surprised the WAC has not made an offer to UCSD. Six months after they passed the D1 referendum, the Big West has yet to invite them. If it gets close to the September 2018 deadline and they are still waiting for their ticket, the WAC should step in (assuming there is a WAC by then). At that point it will be their only path to D1.

The WAC should absolutely step in now:

UC San Diego/CSU Bakersfield
Utah Valley/Seattle
Grand Canyon/New Mexico State
UMKC/UTRGV

If UCSD says no, offer Cal Baptist.

Chicago State should be thanked for stepping in to save the ship, but it's time for them to go. If the school's athletic program can survive, see if the WAC can broker a deal with the Atlantic Sun to take them - after all, Chicago is only a day's drive from Nashville (Lipscomb) and they can be the travel partner for NJIT as well. The Atlantic Sun can pick up some of the single sport D-I members (NYIT baseball, Francis Marion women's soccer, etc.) if needed to balance out members in some sports, or it can work under the assumption both northern members will eventually be gone and invite a tenth full member in the southeast.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note7 using Tapatalk. Hey, do you smell anything burning?

The WAC reborn FBS conference plan would work with the CUSA West division breakoff and joining the WAC.

(11-28-2016 11:13 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  The WAC reborn FBS conference plan would work with the CUSA West division breakoff and joining the WAC.

Have thought of that, but the WAC schools would not be part of the CFP payment until the middle of next decade. CUSA-West doesn't have anything to offer Seattle, GCU, UVU, or Bakersfield.

(11-28-2016 11:33 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-28-2016 11:13 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  The WAC reborn FBS conference plan would work with the CUSA West division breakoff and joining the WAC.

Have thought of that, but the WAC schools would not be part of the CFP payment until the middle of next decade. CUSA-West doesn't have anything to offer Seattle, GCU, UVU, or Bakersfield.

And by the same token the CUSA West members would lose $700K plus their share of whatever Tier 2 & 3 CFP top-up CUSA receives per school.

Which suggests all of this speculation is going to continue until early in the next decade when a new FBS conference could participate in negotiating the next CFP round.

Which further suggests why there is no urgency in closing the WAC loophole ... given that there is no realistic prospect of it being used in the near term future, closing the loophole can wait until it can be put through as some broader FBS restructuring.

Could either Washburn or Central Oklahoma be a pair with UMKC? Some Lone Star Conference schools are yearning for D1 which could be for UTRGV.

Seattle U./Western Washington
Utah Valley/Dixie State
New Mexico State/West Texas A&M
UTRGV/Tarleton State or Kingsville or Commerce
UMKC/Washburn or Central Oklahoma
Bakersfield State/Cal.-San Diego or Azusa Pacific
Grand Canyon U./Colorado State-Pueblo or Colorado Mines
Chicago State/Illinois-Springfield

If I were the WAC, I would bring up two D-2 schools immediately. They are one raid away from being done. They should bring up two very good b-ball schools in the area willing to make the jump.

Not looking good for Chicago State.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/el...story.html

Quote:"If Chicago State doesn't address these problems soon, we will need to explore consolidating state colleges to streamline taxpayer dollars and make sure students are getting a quality education for the money they pay," said Cullerton.

Sounds like setting the stage to merge with NE Illinois, which dropped athletics in the 1990's.

The merged institution should also not have athletics, in my opinion.

(11-29-2016 06:40 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  If I were the WAC, I would bring up two D-2 schools immediately. They are one raid away from being done. They should bring up two very good b-ball schools in the area willing to make the jump.

Given that losing Chicago State puts the WAC at 7, invite one school for 2017, identify another for 2019, and another for 2021. This helps avoid some of the issues of scheduling with transitional teams - some Southland teams had to forfeit conference basketball games due to the conference botching the transition process.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note7 using Tapatalk. Hey, do you smell anything burning?