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Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
(11-27-2016 11:12 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  that makes no sense whatsoever, to ignore bad teams in a conference and just cherry pick the good ones?

The easy answer to that is: it doesn't make any sense to assign a single number to a collection of 14 teams, in the first place.
11-27-2016 11:54 AM
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Scoochpooch Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
(11-26-2016 10:52 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(11-26-2016 10:35 PM)goofus Wrote:  based on the TCU precedent set in 2014, I expect Ohio St to be dropped to #5 after the CCG.

1. Bama
2. Clemson
3. Washington
4. PSU
5. OHio St
6. oklahoma

Everyone had one loss in 2014 so there is no correlation with this "precedent".

OSU had by far the worst loss of the 3 in 2014, yet they were chosen.
11-27-2016 12:09 PM
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Scoochpooch Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
(11-26-2016 11:38 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(11-26-2016 08:04 PM)Scoochpooch Wrote:  [quote='Kronke' pid='13835791' dateline='1480207923'] LOL

#2, beat Michigan, drop to #5? Give me a break.

Tell that to Baylor and TCU in 2014.
Baylor lost to WV away, tough place to play.
TCU lost by 3 to Baylor after super luckback of 20+ points.
OSU lost to VT at home (blow out) and then controversially "won" at PSU in 2OT.
You are throwing out the timing of the losses, aren't you? It seems fairly clear that the committee decided that the Buckeyes that lost to VT had substantially improved by the end of the season. (One wonders, but the CFP committee might also have concluded that the VT team that beat OSU were substantially injury weakened by the end of the season, and their season record did not reflect the challenge they presented early in the season).

One thing that the precedent does suggests is that the CFP does not automatically put the " " marks around "won" for a 2OT win.

Quote: I know OSU is good and could possibly win everything but they don't deserve the chance. You have to choose based on resume.

That is, indeed, one of the two theories for choosing someone for an at-large bid. But the argument that you give regarding the Buckeye's resume, TCU's resume and Baylor's resume in 2014 suggests that that the CFP committee are not purists in support of the resume theory for filling an at-large bid.

They aren't purists on the resume theory. They look at 3 names and choose the biggest brand. Why even play the games? Just say before the season that OSU is in unless they lose 4 times. That way no one can complain. That's why I want no divisions and have number 1 play number 2 in conference. OSU and PSU would have a rematch next weekend.

CFP doesn't care about OT wins but they should. This isn't the NFL, how you play each week matters. NFL has 12 of 32 make playoffs whereas CFB has 4 of 128 make playoffs. It has to be resume based or auto qualification for conference champions.

Do you really think someone squeaking by in OT (which is basically a coin flip in CFB) is equal to a team winning by 40?
I know you're a OSU homer like all fairweather Ohioans (where were you before 2002?) but you are delusional if you think the refs didn't help you against PSU in 2014 or Michigan in 2016. It's all over the internet from impartial viewers.
11-27-2016 12:20 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
No matter what the gurus in CFB come up with, there is always a scenario to blow it all up. Four team playoff just doesn't cover it. They have to decide what is more important, conference championships, or record/ranking. An eight team playoff with the P5 champions and three at large teams with best record/ranking, etc., would do it. Make the eight selected teams all play via their seedings on New Years Day. Two more weeks and done. Only two finalists play an extra game. It will be worth it to any school in the position of winning it all.04-cheers
11-27-2016 12:26 PM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
You may get three Big 10 teams in if Clemson and Washington lose. UM and OU have H2H over Colorado and OU. Don't see how you leave UM out for an overtime loss @OSU.

Then again, Harbaugh's post game antics may nullify that. They should be the 4 IMO if it plays out that way.

UM vs Bama (Peach)
PSU/Wisc vs OSU (Fiesta)

PSU/Wisc vs Colorado (Rose)
OU vs Auburn (Sugar)
Va Tech vs Fla (Orange)
WMU/Navy vs Clemson (Cotton)
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2016 01:47 PM by RUScarlets.)
11-27-2016 01:45 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
(11-27-2016 11:54 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(11-27-2016 11:12 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  that makes no sense whatsoever, to ignore bad teams in a conference and just cherry pick the good ones?

The easy answer to that is: it doesn't make any sense to assign a single number to a collection of 14 teams, in the first place.

Not sure that's a sensible, answer, unless you think it is impossible to compare one conference with another, period, and that just doesn't make sense. I mean, it's pretty obvious the SEC is better than the MAC, so we should be able to express that in some kind of numerical form.
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2016 02:47 PM by quo vadis.)
11-27-2016 02:46 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
(11-27-2016 01:45 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  You may get three Big 10 teams in if Clemson and Washington lose. UM and OU have H2H over Colorado and OU. Don't see how you leave UM out for an overtime loss @OSU.

There has to be some consequence to losing, right?

I mean, three weeks ago, Michigan was 9-0 and #3 in the CFP. Since then, they've gone 1-2, and you're saying that losing 2 games in 3 weeks should drop them only down to #4?

And we're talking about a team that hasn't won anything at all, not even a division?

Makes no sense to me. You can make a case for a one-loss team that isn't a conference champ getting into the playoffs, but not a two-loss team.
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2016 02:53 PM by quo vadis.)
11-27-2016 02:51 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
(11-27-2016 02:46 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  it's pretty obvious the SEC is better than the MAC, so we should be able to express that in some kind of numerical form.

Doesn't mean you can reduce a multi billion-dimensional space down to a single dimension.
11-27-2016 03:37 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
1.Alabama
2.Clemson
3.Washington
4.Penn. State/Wisconsin winner

Ohio State don't get in because they did not win their conference.
11-27-2016 05:08 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
Remember this guys -- the CFP puts points on winning a Conference. Given that, I think winning a Division may have a few added points, although I don't know if they consider tied-for-1st to be the Same as the one chosen to play in their Conf Championship game (Ohio tying for 1st but Penn State going).

No, Michigan's not going. They have no chance.

Ohio State could make it, but Conf winners -- that's an added game to add to resume, a bigger game than your average one obviously AND a conf winner adding points. A great 2L team will likely be put in over OSU, I believe.

But TOUGH for Ohio State to be chosen BELOW Penn State (a 2L team). That's really where it comes down to:

- Ohio State has just 1L, Penn State has 2L
- Ohio State beat Michigan, Penn State got crushed by Michigan
- Ohio State beat B12 Contender OKLAHOMA, Penn State Lost to PITT

- Penn State beat Ohio State
- Penn State plays Extra game on Resume against 2L Wisconsin
- Penn State beats Wisconsin that's basically on the same level as Ohio State & Michigan

Is that conference Win points + Extra game & win against good team on resume + Beating Competitor for Entry > than That Competitor having only 1L + Beating a Big P5 team when they didn't OOC?
11-27-2016 05:25 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
Just give the trophy to Bama and spare us the aggravation
11-27-2016 05:28 PM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
(11-27-2016 02:51 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-27-2016 01:45 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  You may get three Big 10 teams in if Clemson and Washington lose. UM and OU have H2H over Colorado and OU. Don't see how you leave UM out for an overtime loss @OSU.

There has to be some consequence to losing, right?

I mean, three weeks ago, Michigan was 9-0 and #3 in the CFP. Since then, they've gone 1-2, and you're saying that losing 2 games in 3 weeks should drop them only down to #4?

And we're talking about a team that hasn't won anything at all, not even a division?

Makes no sense to me. You can make a case for a one-loss team that isn't a conference champ getting into the playoffs, but not a two-loss team.

UM has the best two losses. OU was awful against OSU at home. How can they get in over UM without playing a CCG? Then apply H2H over Colorado.
11-27-2016 07:12 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
(11-27-2016 07:12 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(11-27-2016 02:51 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-27-2016 01:45 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  You may get three Big 10 teams in if Clemson and Washington lose. UM and OU have H2H over Colorado and OU. Don't see how you leave UM out for an overtime loss @OSU.

There has to be some consequence to losing, right?

I mean, three weeks ago, Michigan was 9-0 and #3 in the CFP. Since then, they've gone 1-2, and you're saying that losing 2 games in 3 weeks should drop them only down to #4?

And we're talking about a team that hasn't won anything at all, not even a division?

Makes no sense to me. You can make a case for a one-loss team that isn't a conference champ getting into the playoffs, but not a two-loss team.

UM has the best two losses. OU was awful against OSU at home. How can they get in over UM without playing a CCG? Then apply H2H over Colorado.

I would bet anything that if two B1G teams get in, one of them will be OS and the other will be the B1G champ. H2H or not, you're not going to get two in and neither be the conference champ.
11-27-2016 07:26 PM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
(11-27-2016 12:26 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  No matter what the gurus in CFB come up with, there is always a scenario to blow it all up. Four team playoff just doesn't cover it. They have to decide what is more important, conference championships, or record/ranking. An eight team playoff with the P5 champions and three at large teams with best record/ranking, etc., would do it. Make the eight selected teams all play via their seedings on New Years Day. Two more weeks and done. Only two finalists play an extra game. It will be worth it to any school in the position of winning it all.04-cheers

This.

For this to be a playoff for places where you go to become more intelligent this sure is stupid. All that comes out of a 4 team playoff for over 100 teams is bias. This thread is a perfect example of that.

No we don't need a 16 team playoff but 8 is enough to develop a solid criteria that does not express so much bias. All five power conference champs would get an auto bid. Then three at large bids will allow for the teams like USC, Michigan, etc who should be in to have access. Sure the number 9 team will always have a case but you still at least guarantee conference champs go thus giving meaning to the normal season.
11-27-2016 08:15 PM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
(11-27-2016 07:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-27-2016 07:12 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(11-27-2016 02:51 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-27-2016 01:45 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  You may get three Big 10 teams in if Clemson and Washington lose. UM and OU have H2H over Colorado and OU. Don't see how you leave UM out for an overtime loss @OSU.

There has to be some consequence to losing, right?

I mean, three weeks ago, Michigan was 9-0 and #3 in the CFP. Since then, they've gone 1-2, and you're saying that losing 2 games in 3 weeks should drop them only down to #4?

And we're talking about a team that hasn't won anything at all, not even a division?

Makes no sense to me. You can make a case for a one-loss team that isn't a conference champ getting into the playoffs, but not a two-loss team.

UM has the best two losses. OU was awful against OSU at home. How can they get in over UM without playing a CCG? Then apply H2H over Colorado.

I would bet anything that if two B1G teams get in, one of them will be OS and the other will be the B1G champ. H2H or not, you're not going to get two in and neither be the conference champ.

It's inconceivable but what teams right now would jump UM after next week? Colorado moves from 9 to 4 by beating #4? OU moves from 8 to 4 by beating Ok St?

In this highly unlikely scenario, you legitimately have a case for 3 Big 10 teams. Any other year would be different, but you have a sample set there with H2H pertaining to UM/Colorado and OU/OSU. That never happens. I would put money that UM would get in. I see them falling right behind Wisconsin and PSU this week and ahead of OU and Colorado.
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2016 09:57 PM by RUScarlets.)
11-27-2016 09:47 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
(11-27-2016 09:47 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(11-27-2016 07:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-27-2016 07:12 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(11-27-2016 02:51 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-27-2016 01:45 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  You may get three Big 10 teams in if Clemson and Washington lose. UM and OU have H2H over Colorado and OU. Don't see how you leave UM out for an overtime loss @OSU.

There has to be some consequence to losing, right?

I mean, three weeks ago, Michigan was 9-0 and #3 in the CFP. Since then, they've gone 1-2, and you're saying that losing 2 games in 3 weeks should drop them only down to #4?

And we're talking about a team that hasn't won anything at all, not even a division?

Makes no sense to me. You can make a case for a one-loss team that isn't a conference champ getting into the playoffs, but not a two-loss team.

UM has the best two losses. OU was awful against OSU at home. How can they get in over UM without playing a CCG? Then apply H2H over Colorado.

I would bet anything that if two B1G teams get in, one of them will be OS and the other will be the B1G champ. H2H or not, you're not going to get two in and neither be the conference champ.

It's inconceivable but what teams right now would jump UM after next week? Colorado moves from 9 to 4 by beating #4? OU moves from 8 to 4 by beating Ok St?

In this highly unlikely scenario, you legitimately have a case for 3 Big 10 teams. Any other year would be different, but you have a sample set there with H2H pertaining to UM/Colorado and OU/OSU. That never happens. I would put money that UM would get in. I see them falling right behind Wisconsin and PSU this week and ahead of OU and Colorado.

If Washington, Alabama, and Clemson win out you will only have 1 entrant. The committee will hide behind the special consideration for conference champions statement and you can take that to the bank, because they will, literally. Their ad revenue goes up if all regions of the country are involved.
11-27-2016 11:09 PM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
There is nothing to indicate CC's are an overarching factor considering where OSU is at right now. Nothing at all versus any other metric. If OSU finishes at 3 or 4 then that would have more credence.
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2016 11:33 PM by RUScarlets.)
11-27-2016 11:33 PM
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Post: #78
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
I don't think any of us really know for sure what's going to happen. We haven't had this scenario come up yet. Ohio St is about as good of a candidate as you are ever going to see. They have 3 top 10 wins and a 4th top 25 win likely in Nebraska. The loss to a very good Penn St team.

compare this to 2011 Alabama. They had 1 top 10 win and 3 total in the top 25.

So this Ohio St team winds up as being just about the perfect 1 loss non champion candidate.
11-28-2016 12:10 AM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
Either way it's unlikely they will put OSU at 4 in Atlanta which would show that CC's may not be a huge factor.

Also FSU being undefeated and ranked at 3 in 2014 shows what they think about the weight of CC's.
11-28-2016 12:40 AM
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RE: Ohio State + Big Ten champion will be in CFP
(11-28-2016 12:40 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Either way it's unlikely they will put OSU at 4 in Atlanta which would show that CC's may not be a huge factor.

Also FSU being undefeated and ranked at 3 in 2014 shows what they think about the weight of CC's.

that really doesn't show much as all of the top 4 had cc's.
11-28-2016 12:43 AM
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