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I didn't watch or listen to the game Sunday. I did study the box and read the article from KSU athletics. Here are my takes so far, which basically are in line with most of what is being expressed by the rest of the fans.

#1 - You had to expect some growing pains considering the roster turnover.
The problem is "roster turnover" seems to be a common theme. If we think the backcourt is unsettled this season just wait to get a load of the frontcourt next season. While as fans we have to "wait and see" on guys like Adonis De La Rosa and Leo Edwards, recent history suggests too many misses in the paint. But I digress...

#2 - Closing out games/protecting leads is a major problem for this regime.
Yes, Kent State will close one out in the near future and there will be snide comments made about this point. And yes, it is becoming like beating a dead horse BUT...if you were a KSU opponent this season who did any scouting at all over the last few years would you feel beaten if you were down 5 with 3 minutes left? How about down 10 with 5 minutes left? Or down 17 at halftime? And forget down 2 with a minute left...might as well be tied.

Because I can tell you right now if Akron or OU or Buffalo had Kent in any of those positions I would turn the game off....well, maybe not any of them. But it is a bad trend. After a while it isn't just bad or dumb luck anymore. Its not teaching the guys how to win basketball games.

#3 - Lots of room for optimism
I am not the MAC expert I once was. But I have to figure you can make the argument that KSU has the best player in the conference on the roster. In addition to Hall I think Deon Edwin is a will to win guy who will make the growing process on the youngsters a bit easier. Plus I think a healthy Jaylin Walker has a pretty high ceiling. Four very winnable games coming up all at home. It will be interesting to take inventory after those four.

Finally. I am a firm believer in settling in a rotation ASAP. Give the guys a role they can count on. 11 minutes for Peterson and 6 for Pippen while Alonzo Walker gives you 3 points in 24?? I don't know.

Prayers to Columbus Ohio right now. We need to be better as a people!

(11-28-2016 12:37 PM)fallsdog Wrote:  I didn't watch or listen to the game Sunday. I did study the box and read the article from KSU athletics. Here are my takes so far, which basically are in line with most of what is being expressed by the rest of the fans.

#1 - You had to expect some growing pains considering the roster turnover.
The problem is "roster turnover" seems to be a common theme. If we think the backcourt is unsettled this season just wait to get a load of the frontcourt next season. While as fans we have to "wait and see" on guys like Adonis De La Rosa and Leo Edwards, recent history suggests too many misses in the paint. But I digress...

#2 - Closing out games/protecting leads is a major problem for this regime.
Yes, Kent State will close one out in the near future and there will be snide comments made about this point. And yes, it is becoming like beating a dead horse BUT...if you were a KSU opponent this season who did any scouting at all over the last few years would you feel beaten if you were down 5 with 3 minutes left? How about down 10 with 5 minutes left? Or down 17 at halftime? And forget down 2 with a minute left...might as well be tied.

Because I can tell you right now if Akron or OU or Buffalo had Kent in any of those positions I would turn the game off....well, maybe not any of them. But it is a bad trend. After a while it isn't just bad or dumb luck anymore. Its not teaching the guys how to win basketball games.

#3 - Lots of room for optimism
I am not the MAC expert I once was. But I have to figure you can make the argument that KSU has the best player in the conference on the roster. In addition to Hall I think Deon Edwin is a will to win guy who will make the growing process on the youngsters a bit easier. Plus I think a healthy Jaylin Walker has a pretty high ceiling. Four very winnable games coming up all at home. It will be interesting to take inventory after those four.

Finally. I am a firm believer in settling in a rotation ASAP. Give the guys a role they can count on. 11 minutes for Peterson and 6 for Pippen while Alonzo Walker gives you 3 points in 24?? I don't know.

Prayers to Columbus Ohio right now. We need to be better as a people!

All good points .. but directly to A. Walker ... for his role he has been perfect. Scoring is not what he's being asked for. It's defense and rebounding and he has been stellar there off the bench.

Kent seems to have a pretty solid bunch of 6-through-10 guys. It's finding three more solid/consistent producers in the top 5 that's the issue.

And I think you're going to see a down year for Acorn - 3 centers and wings (Forsythe, Krenzler, and McAdams) moved on and they really didn't get the new talent this year to replace them. There roster has C Johnson, F Cheatham, and really no other inside players. Freshman C Michael Hughes has played a bit, but shooting 12% from the field ain't going to buy it. Freshman F Emmanuel Olojakpoke has played a little, W/F Daniel Utomi plays 5 minutes a game. And you can't expect Johnson to play more than 25 minutes per game.

I didn't see any of their new freshmen highly rated, except maybe G Tavian Dunn-Martin

All I will say is learning to win is hard. If we are good enough to build 17 point leads, we are good enough to learn how to put teams away. I believe in the coaching staff and we will teach these kids and continue to improve. Which in turn will allow us to finish some of these games.

(11-28-2016 11:29 AM)axeme Wrote:  What the hell has Dambrot done? He's been lucky the MAC hasn't had many really good teams during his tenure. His teams can never compete at the top mid-major level. And this year's team? They lack size, speed, and athleticism. Other than the one big guy, they hope to hit a lot of 3's, and they lost the heart of that part of the game to graduation. They not only aren't the best team in the conference, they may not be the 4th or 5th best team. I'm not saying we're any better this season, but I'm baffled by the fascination on this board by some with Dambrot. He's a decent MAC level coach who has given no evidence he could ever coach at a higher level. I wouldn't trade our successes for his tenure. Not even close.

Ax its 2016 not 2006. I hate Akron but he has had them in the MAC semis 11 straight years. Us? we lost at home in Round 1 to the worst team in league because our best player and who is supposedly the best player in the league this year lost his head and showed zero leadership. You can hate on Akron all you want but he is best coach in league hands down and they are best program in league hands down. Its pains me to say that. poll the coaches in the league and if honest they'll tell you the same thing. Do I hope they go down the sewer absolutely but history tells me that's not happening.

(11-28-2016 03:30 PM)ksu315 Wrote:  

(11-28-2016 11:29 AM)axeme Wrote:  What the hell has Dambrot done? He's been lucky the MAC hasn't had many really good teams during his tenure. His teams can never compete at the top mid-major level. And this year's team? They lack size, speed, and athleticism. Other than the one big guy, they hope to hit a lot of 3's, and they lost the heart of that part of the game to graduation. They not only aren't the best team in the conference, they may not be the 4th or 5th best team. I'm not saying we're any better this season, but I'm baffled by the fascination on this board by some with Dambrot. He's a decent MAC level coach who has given no evidence he could ever coach at a higher level. I wouldn't trade our successes for his tenure. Not even close.

Ax its 2016 not 2006. I hate Akron but he has had them in the MAC semis 11 straight years. Us? we lost at home in Round 1 to the worst team in league because our best player and who is supposedly the best player in the league this year lost his head and showed zero leadership. You can hate on Akron all you want but he is best coach in league hands down and they are best program in league hands down. Its pains me to say that. poll the coaches in the league and if honest they'll tell you the same thing. Do I hope they go down the sewer absolutely but history tells me that's not happening.

I hear ya, but how many tourney titles has he won in those 11 years, and how many times have his teams peed down their legs in big games, particularly when they played teams outside the MAC? It's pretty much the defining characteristic of his tenure there. The MAC just has been down in the last 10 years. OU had a bad regular season then rode a bad boy to a MAC title and an NCAA win, then had the Sweet 16 run with a pretty solid team. I think Dambrot's legacy will be that he can rack up lots of wins vs weaker teams, but is a failure on the big stage if he never wins a Tourney (capital T) game.

No, I don't think he's the best coach, hands down, in the MAC. Top third, sure. I give him credit for recruiting, but I think he hasn't gotten the most out of some of his talent, to say nothing about the questionable character of some of his stars who have let the team down in major ways, though that's to be expected when you roll the dice on talented problems.

I've been watching Kent State basketball for over 50 years, and I just can't get excited about this team. Pippen and Peterson show potential as true freshmen. Edwin is a nice player. As for Hall - I don't dispute that he is first-team all-MAC and maybe even the "player of the year", but I can't really recall ever seeing a player before whose stats seem to exaggerate his real worth. Does that make any sense? I mean, he's really very, very good and Kent State would be in big trouble playing without him, but he doesn't seem to me to be the force his stats would indicate that he is. Maybe that's just because the players surrounding him aren't as good as the players surrounding other Kent State star players in the past were. I suppose, though, it's difficult to be a leader on the court when the other players, as a group, seem so mediocre. As for the rest of the roster, I suppose that among Avery and the two Walkers some players will really gel, but the rest seem so mediocre. I hope I'm wrong. I certainly could be. I don't claim to be some basketball maven, just a fan.

(11-28-2016 04:13 PM)axeme Wrote:  

(11-28-2016 03:30 PM)ksu315 Wrote:  

(11-28-2016 11:29 AM)axeme Wrote:  What the hell has Dambrot done? He's been lucky the MAC hasn't had many really good teams during his tenure. His teams can never compete at the top mid-major level. And this year's team? They lack size, speed, and athleticism. Other than the one big guy, they hope to hit a lot of 3's, and they lost the heart of that part of the game to graduation. They not only aren't the best team in the conference, they may not be the 4th or 5th best team. I'm not saying we're any better this season, but I'm baffled by the fascination on this board by some with Dambrot. He's a decent MAC level coach who has given no evidence he could ever coach at a higher level. I wouldn't trade our successes for his tenure. Not even close.

Ax its 2016 not 2006. I hate Akron but he has had them in the MAC semis 11 straight years. Us? we lost at home in Round 1 to the worst team in league because our best player and who is supposedly the best player in the league this year lost his head and showed zero leadership. You can hate on Akron all you want but he is best coach in league hands down and they are best program in league hands down. Its pains me to say that. poll the coaches in the league and if honest they'll tell you the same thing. Do I hope they go down the sewer absolutely but history tells me that's not happening.

I hear ya, but how many tourney titles has he won in those 11 years, and how many times have his teams peed down their legs in big games, particularly when they played teams outside the MAC? It's pretty much the defining characteristic of his tenure there. The MAC just has been down in the last 10 years. OU had a bad regular season then rode a bad boy to a MAC title and an NCAA win, then had the Sweet 16 run with a pretty solid team. I think Dambrot's legacy will be that he can rack up lots of wins vs weaker teams, but is a failure on the big stage if he never wins a Tourney (capital T) game.

No, I don't think he's the best coach, hands down, in the MAC. Top third, sure. I give him credit for recruiting, but I think he hasn't gotten the most out of some of his talent, to say nothing about the questionable character of some of his stars who have let the team down in major ways, though that's to be expected when you roll the dice on talented problems.

Axe, I usually agree with most of your opinions but here I must differ. For a long time I felt just like you that KD was nothing special. I now think I took that position because of my general dislike of our rival. They are my Michigan. At some point, after observing the zits against us with the current regimes, I concluded that KD was indeed the best coach in the MAC. That was and is a painful realization. No coach in the MAC is the total package of:
- Recruiting
- Player development
- Game preparation and game coaching
- Scheduling
This is why the MAC commands little respect. I am hoping for the MAC's sake, that some of the new coaching hires bring the package. Of course, that will not bode well for us if we remain in the valley of mediocrity. One of the newer hires may be better than KD. Right now, I would say that OU may have that candidate, just not yet convinced.

(11-29-2016 06:23 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  I've been watching Kent State basketball for over 50 years, and I just can't get excited about this team. Pippen and Peterson show potential as true freshmen. Edwin is a nice player. As for Hall - I don't dispute that he is first-team all-MAC and maybe even the "player of the year", but I can't really recall ever seeing a player before whose stats seem to exaggerate his real worth. Does that make any sense? I mean, he's really very, very good and Kent State would be in big trouble playing without him, but he doesn't seem to me to be the force his stats would indicate that he is. Maybe that's just because the players surrounding him aren't as good as the players surrounding other Kent State star players in the past were. I suppose, though, it's difficult to be a leader on the court when the other players, as a group, seem so mediocre. As for the rest of the roster, I suppose that among Avery and the two Walkers some players will really gel, but the rest seem so mediocre. I hope I'm wrong. I certainly could be. I don't claim to be some basketball maven, just a fan.

Musk, I know what you mean. Hall, unfortunately, is very important to the team. It is unfortunate because he is no leader, and his defensive play is no where close to what we expect from a Kent State player. He is cocky and it gets him technical fouls at very inopportune times. BTW, he got one in the Northeastern game for trying to grab the ball out or the hand of an opponent during a dead ball. Just crazy. I saw him several times on defensive fast breaks get passed at mid court by the player that scored the basket. He just stopped and tried to coach a teammate to run down court. I have yet to see him jump more than 6 inches or play above the rim. Lucky for him, he is 6'-8" with long limbs. I judge a star by how he makes players around him much better. Score twenty, give twenty is not a star but the stats sure look good. If and when JH gets shut down, and it will happen, he does not know what to do to help the team. Our other players are physically good enough but are in need of extreme development. IMO, we have used the early season trying to impose a personality on the team that is not going to yield the best results long term for this team. Good thing we play some teams that anyone can beat.

(11-29-2016 11:40 AM)GFlash68 Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 06:23 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  I've been watching Kent State basketball for over 50 years, and I just can't get excited about this team. Pippen and Peterson show potential as true freshmen. Edwin is a nice player. As for Hall - I don't dispute that he is first-team all-MAC and maybe even the "player of the year", but I can't really recall ever seeing a player before whose stats seem to exaggerate his real worth. Does that make any sense? I mean, he's really very, very good and Kent State would be in big trouble playing without him, but he doesn't seem to me to be the force his stats would indicate that he is. Maybe that's just because the players surrounding him aren't as good as the players surrounding other Kent State star players in the past were. I suppose, though, it's difficult to be a leader on the court when the other players, as a group, seem so mediocre. As for the rest of the roster, I suppose that among Avery and the two Walkers some players will really gel, but the rest seem so mediocre. I hope I'm wrong. I certainly could be. I don't claim to be some basketball maven, just a fan.

Musk, I know what you mean. Hall, unfortunately, is very important to the team. It is unfortunate because he is no leader, and his defensive play is no where close to what we expect from a Kent State player. He is cocky and it gets him technical fouls at very inopportune times. BTW, he got one in the Northeastern game for trying to grab the ball out or the hand of an opponent during a dead ball. Just crazy. I saw him several times on defensive fast breaks get passed at mid court by the player that scored the basket. He just stopped and tried to coach a teammate to run down court. I have yet to see him jump more than 6 inches or play above the rim. Lucky for him, he is 6'-8" with long limbs. I judge a star by how he makes players around him much better. Score twenty, give twenty is not a star but the stats sure look good. If and when JH gets shut down, and it will happen, he does not know what to do to help the team. Our other players are physically good enough but are in need of extreme development. IMO, we have used the early season trying to impose a personality on the team that is not going to yield the best results long term for this team. Good thing we play some teams that anyone can beat.

First, I think every team in the league would take JH in a heartbeat. His one weakness is defense, for sure. But that is more due to the fact he is not athletic 'above the rim' baseline player. His rebounding says he gets a lot out of what he has ... that said, he certainly can get frustrated (and right now it seems that he is not alone) ...

I have yet to see the team at home in person, but based on the box scores .. the one that looks like what many would expect/hope is the first game where Hall was certainly the catalyst (scoring, rebounding, assists) and others filled in nicely.

That was also the game JWalker barely scratched ... if Kent can regain that formula and build on it, all is not lost.

Finally ... look around the MAC and Kent is not the only team going through these early season issues ... the common denominator seems to be teams with new guards and/or teams with a high number of new players. Kent hits both buttons.