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MBB vs MT St
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #61
RE: MBB vs MT St
RE: Turnovers.

Does our style of play lead to more turnovers. Should it?
11-22-2016 11:26 AM
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Frizzy Owl Offline
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Post: #62
RE: MBB vs MT St
(11-22-2016 11:21 AM)Houston Owl Wrote:  Just an observation, but the NCAA has an emphasis this year on "impeding" the progress of the ball (apparently an attempt to increase offensive production which is perceived to make the game more exciting and fan friendly).

While I think some of the calls are the result of a natural progression of this emphasis, it doesn't always mean the referees are less than competent...it only means they are following encouragement for an approach emphasized by supervisors.

If last night is a valid example of the NCAA's policy in action, then it's not working. Numerous interruptions and lots of free-throw shooting has the opposite effect of what's intended. And calling offensive fouls on incidental contact away from the ball prevents offensive production. Also, the fans for both teams were quite unhappy and I suspect that's going to be fan reaction league-wide if the refs are interfering with game flow elsewhere as much as they were at Tudor last night.
11-22-2016 11:35 AM
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cr11owl Offline
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Post: #63
RE: MBB vs MT St
(11-22-2016 11:26 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  RE: Turnovers.

Does our style of play lead to more turnovers. Should it?

I think sometimes we get a little sped up which leads to turnovers by the guards. Ako Adams especially but he's a freshman so I expect it. Sometimes we make an extra pass down low when I think we should take it up hard which results in turnovers. Last night was better in the second half once Egor and Evans were back on the court.

Douglas and Meyers are already better at rebounding than anyone we had last year. Drone may be in better shape but his hands just aren't good enough. In the brief minutes played he had 2 TO I remember and got lucky on a 3rd being a kicked ball.

Wish list:
I want to see Harrison shoot after watching his HS videos last year. And I still haven't seen Robert Martin. Wouldn't mind seeing Adams shoot less 3's and drive more...
I think we could've pressed more last night.
11-22-2016 11:45 AM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #64
RE: MBB vs MT St
Early observations (mostly based on looking at cumulative stats, small sample size caveats):
Scoring: Impressed that Marcus Evans has continued scoring so many points, even with the increased depth. Of course, that is in part because...
Playing time: Like last year, Rice is relying on 4 top guys who are playing ~30 minutes each. I expected the top guys to play fewer minutes with the increased depth, but that hasn't happened (yet). Drone (32 mins total) and Mency (7 mins total) are way down this year. Not surprising, but worth noting. Harrison (7 mins total) and Martin (5 mins total) are playing less than I expected. Harrison was Rice's top-rated recruit on the recruiting websites and Martin, who played a prep season, was billed as a guy who could be expected to step into an immediate role as a contributor. Obviously that could change, just making the observation.
Shooting: 3-point shooting has been insanely good so far. Last year, Rice shot 31.8%. So far this year, 40.6%. They shot 36.2% two seasons ago. FT% pretty close to prior seasons (72% so far, compared to ~74% the prior 2 seasons).
Rebounds: Rebound differential over the last 3 years ... -1.6, -2.9, +4.2. Huge improvement so far.
Blocks: Block differential over the last 3 years ... -1.3, -.2, +1.0. Huge improvement so far.
Future improvement: Rice getting 25.4% of its minutes from guys who have no college experience (freshman and Lott). We should see the biggest improvement from these guys over the course of the year.

So far, reason for optimism. Turnovers have been the main negative, and those are up compared to the first 4 games the last 2 seasons. And obviously the sample sizes are small and heavily dependent on the opponents played. Will be interesting to see how some of these improvements hold up as the season wears on.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2016 12:17 PM by mrbig.)
11-22-2016 12:16 PM
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Almadenmike Offline
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Post: #65
RE: MBB vs MT St
(11-22-2016 07:10 AM)billstudabaker Wrote:  And Shorty Lawson.

That's who I immediately thought of. (http://archive.reporternews.com/news/for...32591.html)
11-22-2016 12:42 PM
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Almadenmike Offline
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Post: #66
RE: MBB vs MT St
(11-22-2016 08:47 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  This is two out our four games that over 50 fouls have been called. Just a ridiculous effort by the zebras last night.

A book on the history of Texas Longhorn basketball mentions the 1975 "whistle duet" that Shorty Lawson and Tommy Taylor sang to the tune of 57 fouls called against the 'Horns and Aggies.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2016 12:53 PM by Almadenmike.)
11-22-2016 12:49 PM
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cr11owl Offline
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Post: #67
RE: MBB vs MT St
I think Harrison isn't built for a quick transition to playing post in D1. He had size in HS on most guys and he could shoot 3s over most guards. I think he will adjust but it might take a season. I'd say he could play a 4 but Egor is there and we've been bringing in MLE as the first 6'8 lengthy type of player.

Not sure about Martin. Everyone said he impressed in the exhibition.
11-22-2016 01:13 PM
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Almadenmike Offline
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Post: #68
RE: MBB vs MT St
(11-22-2016 08:47 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  This is two out our four games that over 50 fouls have been called. Just a ridiculous effort by the zebras last night. I have no idea where each of these officials work during the conference season. That would be an interesting exercise to look at. In fact I would like to see that info as part of the box score.

More than 50 fouls were called in three of our first four games: James Madison (53 by Mark Schnur, Duke Edsall & A.J. Desai); Omaha (54 by Brian McAnally, Tyler Kumpf & Dan Nowakowski) and Montana State (56 by John St. Clair, Rick O'Neill & Kelly Davis).

Here's a data-intensive website that includes info on college refs: http://natstat.com/

Before I used up my free page views, I gathered this summary of the games that six of these refs officiated last season:

McAnally -- 12 games from South Dakota and Colorado to Lake Charles, La. (Avg. fouls: 41.26)
Kumpf -- 21 games from Indiana to San Antonio. (Avg. fouls: 40.95)
Nowakowski -- 10 games from South Dakota to Edinburg, Tex. (Avg fouls: 38.00)

St. Clair -- 30 games from Wisconsin to Boca Raton to Houston. (Avg. fouls: 43.23)
O'Neill -- 24 games from Seattle & San Jose to Philadelpha. (Avg. fouls: 40.08)
Davis -- 16 games , from Huntington, W.Va.,to Boca Raton, Fla., to Denton & Houston, Tx. (Avg fouls: 41.62)
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2016 01:37 PM by Almadenmike.)
11-22-2016 01:35 PM
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waltgreenberg Offline
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Post: #69
RE: MBB vs MT St
(11-22-2016 12:16 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Early observations (mostly based on looking at cumulative stats, small sample size caveats):
Scoring: Impressed that Marcus Evans has continued scoring so many points, even with the increased depth. Of course, that is in part because...
Playing time: Like last year, Rice is relying on 4 top guys who are playing ~30 minutes each. I expected the top guys to play fewer minutes with the increased depth, but that hasn't happened (yet). Drone (32 mins total) and Mency (7 mins total) are way down this year. Not surprising, but worth noting. Harrison (7 mins total) and Martin (5 mins total) are playing less than I expected. Harrison was Rice's top-rated recruit on the recruiting websites and Martin, who played a prep season, was billed as a guy who could be expected to step into an immediate role as a contributor. Obviously that could change, just making the observation.
Shooting: 3-point shooting has been insanely good so far. Last year, Rice shot 31.8%. So far this year, 40.6%. They shot 36.2% two seasons ago. FT% pretty close to prior seasons (72% so far, compared to ~74% the prior 2 seasons).
Rebounds: Rebound differential over the last 3 years ... -1.6, -2.9, +4.2. Huge improvement so far.
Blocks: Block differential over the last 3 years ... -1.3, -.2, +1.0. Huge improvement so far.
Future improvement: Rice getting 25.4% of its minutes from guys who have no college experience (freshman and Lott). We should see the biggest improvement from these guys over the course of the year.

So far, reason for optimism. Turnovers have been the main negative, and those are up compared to the first 4 games the last 2 seasons. And obviously the sample sizes are small and heavily dependent on the opponents played. Will be interesting to see how some of these improvements hold up as the season wears on.

With regards to rebounding, Douglas had an off night last night. When he was in, and Quez out, Montana State was killing us on the offensive glass. Meyers, on the other hand, impressed me again (as he did when I caught a late preseason practice). He doesn't have the body to keep opposing big men out of the post, but he is VERY active down low-- blocking shots and rebounding. If Quez was hampered by his hammy the first several games, he looked back in full health yesterday, and he is most definitely a game changer-- even if predominantly on the defensive end. Lott certainly gain confidence with his performance last night-- on both ends of the court....and he was really into the game emotionally. Aside from back-to-back early 3-pointers from Egor, he and Jackson were ice cold from outside yesterday, and Cashaw wasn't looking for his shot. Fortunately, Egor started to take it to the basket in the 2nd half. Given all this, and the worst half of basketball we've played in some time, it's amazing we were still in the game at half time, albeit down by 9 points.
11-22-2016 01:54 PM
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I45owl Offline
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Post: #70
RE: MBB vs MT St
(11-21-2016 11:50 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Texas Southern beat James Madison by 11 on the road. TSU is now 4-1 - JMU is 0-4. Delaware State (who we host Wednesday) only lost by 1 on the road at UL Lafayette.

Simultaneously making the loss to TSU look better and the win against JMU look worse. I guess it's a wash with regards to RPI.
11-22-2016 04:45 PM
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Rick Gerlach Offline
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Post: #71
RE: MBB vs MT St
(11-22-2016 04:45 PM)I45owl Wrote:  
(11-21-2016 11:50 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Texas Southern beat James Madison by 11 on the road. TSU is now 4-1 - JMU is 0-4. Delaware State (who we host Wednesday) only lost by 1 on the road at UL Lafayette.

Simultaneously making the loss to TSU look better and the win against JMU look worse. I guess it's a wash with regards to RPI.

I'd expect our current ranking to fall in between the two, with TSU the highest rated team, of course. Have not seen any updates on rankings in the last several days.
11-22-2016 04:55 PM
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Almadenmike Offline
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Post: #72
RE: MBB vs MT St
(11-22-2016 04:55 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  
(11-22-2016 04:45 PM)I45owl Wrote:  
(11-21-2016 11:50 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Texas Southern beat James Madison by 11 on the road. TSU is now 4-1 - JMU is 0-4. Delaware State (who we host Wednesday) only lost by 1 on the road at UL Lafayette.

Simultaneously making the loss to TSU look better and the win against JMU look worse. I guess it's a wash with regards to RPI.

I'd expect our current ranking to fall in between the two, with TSU the highest rated team, of course. Have not seen any updates on rankings in the last several days.

kenpom.com is up-to-date:

112 Rice CUSA / 3-1
181 Texas Southern SWAC / 4-1
183 James Madison CAA / 0-4

- - - - -

Here's Live RPI:

142 143 Texas Southern -- 0.5251 / 4-1
145 147 Rice -- 0.5227 / 3-1
227 229 James Madison -- 0.4445 / 0-4

FWIW, their Top 6 are:

1 - Charlotte -- 0.9375 / 2-0
2 - Creighton -- 0.8231 / 5-0
3 - Xavier -- 0.7990 / 5-0
4 - Elon -- 0.7917 / 1-1
5 - Saint Mary's -- 0.7870 / 3-0
6 - UNC Wilmington -- 0.7812 / 2-0
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2016 05:16 PM by Almadenmike.)
11-22-2016 05:09 PM
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owl at the moon Offline
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Post: #73
MBB vs MT St
Fell ~4 spots in KenPom yesterday despite the win.
We remain in the top three CUSA teams in that ranking
11-22-2016 10:43 PM
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gsloth Offline
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Post: #74
RE: MBB vs MT St
(11-22-2016 08:47 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  During the OOC season the NCAA assigns the refs. Once conference seasons start then the refs come from the pool of officials for each conference which is why you can see Final Four refs at Tudor early in the season. This is two out our four games that over 50 fouls have been called. Just a ridiculous effort by the zebras last night. I have no idea where each of these officials work during the conference season. That would be an interesting exercise to look at. In fact I would like to see that info as part of the box score.

Did some searching. And keep in mind - these guys aren't likely dedicated to one conference, unlike football. They go where the assignments are made during conference play, typically within a geographic region, focusing on a few conferences. There are scheduling groups that do that kind of coordination (like the Big 12 and CUSA and a couple of others use the same pool).

John St. Clair is probably in his 18th season as a basketball ref, based out of Memphis. (Found a reference to him answering a question about officiating in an article about Memphis Tigers.)

Found this reference to a Division 2 bulletin board in my Google search for John St. Clair. The actual board posting wouldn't come up, but the summary item seems to say enough to get the gist (playing 3 blind mice by the basketball band).
Quote:Yes, this is a basketball question. ... Band director should get a raise, and the refs should be suspended for a game or two. .... John St. Clair was the official who took exception to 3 blind mice.

Subsequently found another discussion of that ejection. Classic. http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=11651.0

Here's an article about Kelly Davis from 2010 about him trying to catch on to the college ref circuit. Looks like he made it. http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=5581117

Kelly Davis also appears to be on Twitter. I won't link (it's really not active much), but says he's also in Memphis now.

John St. Clair and Kelly Davis both worked together the CBI semi-final in 2015 with Vermont at UL-Monroe.

Rick O'Neill is probably the son of Tom O'Neill, a long-time ref who is in the Naismith Hall of Fame. Found this commentary on Rick from 2015 by an Air Force fan, saying he does MWC and WAC.
Quote:Rick O’Neill (MWC and WAC): Grade F
Rick O’Neill is a notorious for not calling infractions against any team that Air Force is playing. He’s swallowed so many whistles, that he crips when he talks. Maybe he’ll call all WAC Tournament games at the Orleans this week, rather than making bad calls in the MWC Tournament. We can only hope. Wishes do come true. He wasn't at the MWC Tournament last week.
source: http://www.scout.com/college/air-force/f...tournament
11-23-2016 09:50 AM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #75
MyBB RE: MBB vs MT St
Nice to be at 3-1 in a major sport besides baseball. Amazing to think we won;t really lose anything next season as far as starters unless Jackson decides to graduate and go elsewhere. Wonder if he'll have so much fun here with the Rhoades recruits that he'll decide to stick around for a grad season at Rice?
11-23-2016 12:55 PM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #76
RE: MBB vs MT St
(11-23-2016 12:55 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Amazing to think we won;t really lose anything next season as far as starters unless Jackson decides to graduate and go elsewhere.

Koulechov is also in his 4th year of eligibility. Assuming he graduates, he would also be eligible to transfer without sitting out a year. Obviously, it would be fantastic if both returned as 5th year players, but let's not get ahead of ourselves!
11-23-2016 01:23 PM
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