People take the money, it's what.seperate us from the animal kingdom. He gone.

Quote:People take the money, it's what.seperate us from the animal kingdom. He gone.

But what Also separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom is -- we row the boat, and they don't!! :)

50% of WMU fans think he's staying?

Why is it that fans can never be objective about anything that has to do with their school?

I think the word "fanatic" is the key.

He gone but I wish he'd stay. I wish money wasn't important but he's gotta do what he's gotta do to change his family tree.

I would say there's a greater chance than "normal" of him staying. He will be finicky about "his way", he likes to stay in the Midwest, and he's going to be paid FAR MORE than any other MAC coach. Basically, he'd turn down the Iowa State offer that Campbell got last year, at this point.

That said, yeah, still -- GOOD chance he leaves, yes. It's greater than 50-50.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/.../95147226/

I thought "go", but the way things have worked out, there just wasn't much out there in the P5 ranks and the ones that were open didn't seem to line up to want to court Fleck. I don't see him taking another G5 team like UC, so he may have to wait another year and see what opens up next season.

I've got plenty of crow to go around for everyone... don't be afraid, step right up. Crow for all!

(12-08-2016 02:17 PM)axeme Wrote:  I thought "go", but the way things have worked out, there just wasn't much out there in the P5 ranks and the ones that were open didn't seem to line up to want to court Fleck. I don't see him taking another G5 team like UC, so he may have to wait another year and see what opens up next season.

I agree. Not saying Fleck isn't a good coach--you can't argue with the year-to-year improvements--but I think the media in particular misjudged how "valued" he would be by some of the "better" P5 programs that had openings--as in, he wasn't really. And that may be due to his still relative inexperience as a head coach, and/or a need to see if he can continue the progress at WMU, and/or any of the personality traits that make him who he is, or whatever.

I do think it's good for the MAC when some younger, successful coaches stay a bit. I think he & Candle at Toledo in particular could have a great coaching rivalry for another couple years. It will be interesting to see how much more WMU has to pay him now, to "keep" him when it's unlikely he was going anywhere anyway. My guess is they end up breaking the bank, and probably will spend more than perhaps they would have to under the circumstances. Again--not saying he shouldn't get a raise, question is how much. I doubt any other MAC school will follow suit, though, and try to compete salary-wise...most G5 public institutions aren't exactly rolling in long-term money (and some of them are probably spending money they won't continue to have).

(12-08-2016 03:21 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  

(12-08-2016 02:17 PM)axeme Wrote:  I thought "go", but the way things have worked out, there just wasn't much out there in the P5 ranks and the ones that were open didn't seem to line up to want to court Fleck. I don't see him taking another G5 team like UC, so he may have to wait another year and see what opens up next season.

I agree. Not saying Fleck isn't a good coach--you can't argue with the year-to-year improvements--but I think the media in particular misjudged how "valued" he would be by some of the "better" P5 programs that had openings--as in, he wasn't really. And that may be due to his still relative inexperience as a head coach, and/or a need to see if he can continue the progress at WMU, and/or any of the personality traits that make him who he is, or whatever.

I do think it's good for the MAC when some younger, successful coaches stay a bit. I think he & Candle at Toledo in particular could have a great coaching rivalry for another couple years. It will be interesting to see how much more WMU has to pay him now, to "keep" him when it's unlikely he was going anywhere anyway. My guess is they end up breaking the bank, and probably will spend more than perhaps they would have to under the circumstances. Again--not saying he shouldn't get a raise, question is how much. I doubt any other MAC school will follow suit, though, and try to compete salary-wise...most G5 public institutions aren't exactly rolling in long-term money (and some of them are probably spending money they won't continue to have).

I kind of felt his job opportunities going in were either upper echelon AAC or deck stacked against him bottom rung P5. I'm guessing if he was willing to just accept an offer at any school, he would have landed something.

A few years back Duquesne made a strong push to steal Dambrot. After rejecting a 3rd or so offer from Duquesne, Akron in good faith gave Dambrot a raise. It both rewarded Dambrot for his loyalty and also priced some teams out of making a run at him in the future. By giving Fleck this raise it will aid in their ability to try to get an extra year or 2 out of him. That $2M offer from a Memphis, Houston, or Purdue is less enticing if he is already making $1.5M instead of only 800k.

(11-22-2016 04:16 PM)niubrad00 Wrote:  50% of WMU fans think he's staying?

Why is it that fans can never be objective about anything that has to do with their school?

Sometimes it's the subjective analysis which provides the advantage. We Broncos have a keen insight, and vast wisdom.

(12-08-2016 03:44 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(12-08-2016 03:21 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  

(12-08-2016 02:17 PM)axeme Wrote:  I thought "go", but the way things have worked out, there just wasn't much out there in the P5 ranks and the ones that were open didn't seem to line up to want to court Fleck. I don't see him taking another G5 team like UC, so he may have to wait another year and see what opens up next season.

I agree. Not saying Fleck isn't a good coach--you can't argue with the year-to-year improvements--but I think the media in particular misjudged how "valued" he would be by some of the "better" P5 programs that had openings--as in, he wasn't really. And that may be due to his still relative inexperience as a head coach, and/or a need to see if he can continue the progress at WMU, and/or any of the personality traits that make him who he is, or whatever.

I do think it's good for the MAC when some younger, successful coaches stay a bit. I think he & Candle at Toledo in particular could have a great coaching rivalry for another couple years. It will be interesting to see how much more WMU has to pay him now, to "keep" him when it's unlikely he was going anywhere anyway. My guess is they end up breaking the bank, and probably will spend more than perhaps they would have to under the circumstances. Again--not saying he shouldn't get a raise, question is how much. I doubt any other MAC school will follow suit, though, and try to compete salary-wise...most G5 public institutions aren't exactly rolling in long-term money (and some of them are probably spending money they won't continue to have).

I kind of felt his job opportunities going in were either upper echelon AAC or deck stacked against him bottom rung P5. I'm guessing if he was willing to just accept an offer at any school, he would have landed something.

A few years back Duquesne made a strong push to steal Dambrot. After rejecting a 3rd or so offer from Duquesne, Akron in good faith gave Dambrot a raise. It both rewarded Dambrot for his loyalty and also priced some teams out of making a run at him in the future. By giving Fleck this raise it will aid in their ability to try to get an extra year or 2 out of him. That $2M offer from a Memphis, Houston, or Purdue is less enticing if he is already making $1.5M instead of only 800k.

Brohm is getting 3.3 million 6yr/20mil and over 3.5 million for his assistants, over 1 million increase for Purdue. Fleck would have taken that if Brohm said no.

Just as an alternate view, it is possible that Fleck is not that outstanding X and Os coach. For those of us that follow recruiting, it is pretty clear that WMU had 3 exceptional recruiting years previous to this season. WMU talent level is superior and deeper than any other MAC team. The talent level is approximately at a mid level B1G team. It would not be beyond imagination to project that most MAC coaches, if using WMU talent, would have had a similar season. Recruiting is a big part of winning but can Fleck recruit with the top coaches in the P5 conferences. That is a big, big question. For instance, if a Fleck were to be at a place like Indiana, and increase their recruiting level to say, mid B1G levels, will his game coaching get Indiana into the B1G championship game. ADs may be considering this, though I doubt it. I offer this concept only as another way to evaluate a coaching prospect. Please do not assume that this is my gospel opinion. Honestly, I do not know. With Fleck staying at WMU, I do see WMU out recruiting other MAC programs. What a salesman!

(12-09-2016 01:45 PM)GFlash68 Wrote:  Just as an alternate view, it is possible that Fleck is not that outstanding X and Os coach. For those of us that follow recruiting, it is pretty clear that WMU had 3 exceptional recruiting years previous to this season. WMU talent level is superior and deeper than any other MAC team. The talent level is approximately at a mid level B1G team. It would not be beyond imagination to project that most MAC coaches, if using WMU talent, would have had a similar season. Recruiting is a big part of winning but can Fleck recruit with the top coaches in the P5 conferences. That is a big, big question. For instance, if a Fleck were to be at a place like Indiana, and increase their recruiting level to say, mid B1G levels, will his game coaching get Indiana into the B1G championship game. ADs may be considering this, though I doubt it. I offer this concept only as another way to evaluate a coaching prospect. Please do not assume that this is my gospel opinion. Honestly, I do not know. With Fleck staying at WMU, I do see WMU out recruiting other MAC programs. What a salesman!

You also have to take talent development into consideration as well. History is littered with highly-touted recruits who don't pan out, and coaching is a big part of that. It still fits your argument that his talent is perhaps compensating for X's and O's, but you have to give him credit for getting his players up to snuff.

(12-09-2016 02:05 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(12-09-2016 01:45 PM)GFlash68 Wrote:  Just as an alternate view, it is possible that Fleck is not that outstanding X and Os coach. For those of us that follow recruiting, it is pretty clear that WMU had 3 exceptional recruiting years previous to this season. WMU talent level is superior and deeper than any other MAC team. The talent level is approximately at a mid level B1G team. It would not be beyond imagination to project that most MAC coaches, if using WMU talent, would have had a similar season. Recruiting is a big part of winning but can Fleck recruit with the top coaches in the P5 conferences. That is a big, big question. For instance, if a Fleck were to be at a place like Indiana, and increase their recruiting level to say, mid B1G levels, will his game coaching get Indiana into the B1G championship game. ADs may be considering this, though I doubt it. I offer this concept only as another way to evaluate a coaching prospect. Please do not assume that this is my gospel opinion. Honestly, I do not know. With Fleck staying at WMU, I do see WMU out recruiting other MAC programs. What a salesman!

You also have to take talent development into consideration as well. History is littered with highly-touted recruits who don't pan out, and coaching is a big part of that. It still fits your argument that his talent is perhaps compensating for X's and O's, but you have to give him credit for getting his players up to snuff.

Agreed, I think Fleck has demonstrated he can recruit and he can coach. He went 13-0 in only four years time and had WMU winning its first bowl game ever in year 3. We've learned at NIU that Carey's first year as head coach he went 12-0 because of the players. Carey is not a good recruiter or a good coach and that is now being manifested in our record which has continually declined and our postseason losses where we've been destroyed.

Quote:Brohm is getting 3.3 million 6yr/20mil and over 3.5 million for his assistants, over 1 million increase for Purdue. Fleck would have taken that if Brohm said no.

Interesting point, but it's not as simple as that. Purdue wanted to FIND someone the Earliest in the country -- and Fleck wanted to focus on winning the MAC West (if not the whole MAC), first before talking. Bigger P5 teams will take that as a slap and a foreshadowing of getting-along. PJ didn't sell himself early like others (and that P5s with $$ expect), because to be fair, he did still have something to prove to get to the point to earn $3.x million a year + tons of $$ for assistants.

So sure, if Purdue dealt with Brohm and it was publicly Verified & known what they offered him, and it was publicly Verified & known that the same would go to PJ -- sure, PJ would have hopped on a plane to Indiana the morning after the MACC game -- or perhaps in-between Toledo & MACC, depending on what unfolded. It's basically the same as "If Purdue did [this]," which is the same as "If PJ did [that]."

I believe if PJ put himself in prime position To be hired elsewhere, he would have taken that job already at that $$ amount (if they would give him that $$ amount). I also believe if PURDUE put themselves in prime position to Get PJ, they would have taken him if that amount was offered as well.

Kind of like getting a date. Sometimes it's not that the girl 'dissed me, or I 'dissed her. The timing was off to land a great date. To what degree each really wanted each other would be up for debate, and go both ways, but in the end -- it was just the timing of availability as the main reason.

Brohm is getting 3.3 million 6yr/20mil and over 3.5 million for his assistants, over 1 million increase for Purdue. Fleck would have taken that if Brohm said no.
[/quote]

Purdue is where coaches go to die. You go there for two to four years. Make your millions, get fired, and then never get a head coaching job again in FBS.

Fleck has higher aspirations than to be just another failed coach at a school where he can never achieve greatness. A few more years at Western and then he can have top tier P5 job where he can get a national championship.

In the mean time, he will be making almost as much coin at WMU all while making a bigger name for himself......it is a no brainer.

Fleck may very well be following the blueprint of Chris Peterson, who took his Boise State Broncos to the big-time Fiesta Bowl. Peterson knew he had a great thing going in Idaho and wasn't about to leave for any job that would give him a P5 raise but likely wouldn't take him to the top of the college football mountain. He just won and won at BSU before getting the plum job at Washington.

On the other side of the coin is NC State Coach Dave Doeren. He left Northern Illinois before the Orange Bowl, so didn't get to have that rewarding experience of leading his team out of the tunnel at one the college football's most prestigious bowls. Sure he is making more money, but he's also now at a school where his odds are low at getting to a big bowl.

It seems to me Fleck may be taking the Peterson approach. Continue the success at the school who loves you and wait until you can pick the next place to coach rather than the place picking you.

(12-10-2016 10:37 AM)Okie Chippewa Wrote:  Fleck may very well be following the blueprint of Chris Peterson, who took his Boise State Broncos to the big-time Fiesta Bowl. Peterson knew he had a great thing going in Idaho and wasn't about to leave for any job that would give him a P5 raise but likely wouldn't take him to the top of the college football mountain. He just won and won at BSU before getting the plum job at Washington.

On the other side of the coin is NC State Coach Dave Doeren. He left Northern Illinois before the Orange Bowl, so didn't get to have that rewarding experience of leading his team out of the tunnel at one the college football's most prestigious bowls. Sure he is making more money, but he's also now at a school where his odds are low at getting to a big bowl.

It seems to me Fleck may be taking the Peterson approach. Continue the success at the school who loves you and wait until you can pick the next place to coach rather than the place picking you.

That could be it, especially given his youth. I mean if Chuck Martin went 13-0 next year he'd be out in a second, he'll be 49 years old and the clock would be ticking as far as getting established in a big program goes. But Fleck on the other hand just turned 36; for perspective, Urban Meyer was 37 when he got his first coaching gig at BG while Nick Saban was about to turn 39 when he started at Toledo. If he leads WMU on a run the next few years like Marshall had in the nineties, he can pick any coaching job he wants and not even be 40.