How can a solid program like Marshall fall apart like this? Solid coach who stays at the school, recruits great athletes, great fans...it doesn't add up. Don't they have some 4* recruits on that team? Was looking at recruiting board for 2017 and little with recruits.

What is an honest assessment of the program today?

Our coach has made his name as recruiter only. He's not an X's and O's guy. While I like him and his passion, he needs to surround himself with excellent assistants. For the most part he has, but the OC is terrible and runs a very simple and highly predictable offense. I think we've been able to have success in the past because we had better athletes and a mobile, very cerebral QB in Cato. Our current QB is not mobile, is gun shy and I think has a limited football IQ.
Our Oline has been devastated by injuries and not consistent. Our D is young with only 2 senior starters and freshmen and sophomores making up most of the playing time in the secondary.

Doc is an old school guy and disciplinarian. Our attrition rate is high because he kicks kids off or they leave because of his policies. This killed our depth and has taken away many talented kids.

To be brutally honest, it will take us 2-3 years to right this ship, if we do. Drastic changes in the OC and mindset have to be made. Our funding is stagnant and state dollars drying up. Thus any new funding must come from the fan base. We are second in the league now in tix revenue and giving - which is driven by the fans. I don't see that increasing any time soon.

To get back on track, we'll need -
A new OC
A new QB
Some Jucos or grad transfers for plug some holes quick
A new attitude from the team in general.

I see another tough year in 2017. 7-5 at best. jmo.

(11-15-2016 04:04 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Our coach has made his name as recruiter only. He's not an X's and O's guy. While I like him and his passion, he needs to surround himself with excellent assistants. For the most part he has, but the OC is terrible and runs a very simple and highly predictable offense. I think we've been able to have success in the past because we had better athletes and a mobile, very cerebral QB in Cato. Our current QB is not mobile, is gun shy and I think has a limited football IQ.
Our Oline has been devastated by injuries and not consistent. Our D is young with only 2 senior starters and freshmen and sophomores making up most of the playing time in the secondary.

Doc is an old school guy and disciplinarian. Our attrition rate is high because he kicks kids off or they leave because of his policies. This killed our depth and has taken away many talented kids.

To be brutally honest, it will take us 2-3 years to right this ship, if we do. Drastic changes in the OC and mindset have to be made. Our funding is stagnant and state dollars drying up. Thus any new funding must come from the fan base. We are second in the league now in tix revenue and giving - which is driven by the fans. I don't see that increasing any time soon.

To get back on track, we'll need -
A new OC
A new QB
Some Jucos or grad transfers for plug some holes quick
A new attitude from the team in general.

I see another tough year in 2017. 7-5 at best. jmo.

Sounds like we are down together. A good Marshall football team is better for CUSA then a down one. You guys are one of the name programs.

(11-15-2016 04:26 PM)isidnirb Wrote:  

(11-15-2016 04:04 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Our coach has made his name as recruiter only. He's not an X's and O's guy. While I like him and his passion, he needs to surround himself with excellent assistants. For the most part he has, but the OC is terrible and runs a very simple and highly predictable offense. I think we've been able to have success in the past because we had better athletes and a mobile, very cerebral QB in Cato. Our current QB is not mobile, is gun shy and I think has a limited football IQ.
Our Oline has been devastated by injuries and not consistent. Our D is young with only 2 senior starters and freshmen and sophomores making up most of the playing time in the secondary.

Doc is an old school guy and disciplinarian. Our attrition rate is high because he kicks kids off or they leave because of his policies. This killed our depth and has taken away many talented kids.

To be brutally honest, it will take us 2-3 years to right this ship, if we do. Drastic changes in the OC and mindset have to be made. Our funding is stagnant and state dollars drying up. Thus any new funding must come from the fan base. We are second in the league now in tix revenue and giving - which is driven by the fans. I don't see that increasing any time soon.

To get back on track, we'll need -
A new OC
A new QB
Some Jucos or grad transfers for plug some holes quick
A new attitude from the team in general.

I see another tough year in 2017. 7-5 at best. jmo.

Sounds like we are down together. A good Marshall football team is better for CUSA then a down one. You guys are one of the name programs.

No doubt, as much as I love to hate Marshall, we need them back near the top every year ....... But just not on top of my TOPS

Marshall being a good program is good for C-USA. In their 12 years in C-USA they've only had 3 years where their regular season record was above .500. We need them to return to that level of play.

They can start next season. No reason to start playing now.

Seems to really make sense now why Marshall's former RB coach Chris Barclay made the jump from Marshall to WKU prior to this season, clearly he saw the writing on the wall

(11-15-2016 04:04 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Our coach has made his name as recruiter only. He's not an X's and O's guy. While I like him and his passion, he needs to surround himself with excellent assistants. For the most part he has, but the OC is terrible and runs a very simple and highly predictable offense. I think we've been able to have success in the past because we had better athletes and a mobile, very cerebral QB in Cato. Our current QB is not mobile, is gun shy and I think has a limited football IQ.
Our Oline has been devastated by injuries and not consistent. Our D is young with only 2 senior starters and freshmen and sophomores making up most of the playing time in the secondary.

Doc is an old school guy and disciplinarian. Our attrition rate is high because he kicks kids off or they leave because of his policies. This killed our depth and has taken away many talented kids.

To be brutally honest, it will take us 2-3 years to right this ship, if we do. Drastic changes in the OC and mindset have to be made. Our funding is stagnant and state dollars drying up. Thus any new funding must come from the fan base. We are second in the league now in tix revenue and giving - which is driven by the fans. I don't see that increasing any time soon.

To get back on track, we'll need -
A new OC
A new QB
Some Jucos or grad transfers for plug some holes quick
A new attitude from the team in general.

I see another tough year in 2017. 7-5 at best. jmo.

I don't think we NEED a new QB necessarily, but I do think we need a new OC. Legg's limitations are glaring now, with this year even putting focus on his failings in years past. I think Litton can do solid things here, because he did so last year, but all the pieces need to be in place.

One final point I'll make is that it feels like something else is going on beyond just poor O play calling and a young D. It feels like there's way, way less cohesion and team mentality with this year's team. I hope there's not some weirdness going on behind the scenes or in the locker room, but it very much feels that way from my point of view.

(11-16-2016 09:29 AM)RedParallax Wrote:  

(11-15-2016 04:04 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Our coach has made his name as recruiter only. He's not an X's and O's guy. While I like him and his passion, he needs to surround himself with excellent assistants. For the most part he has, but the OC is terrible and runs a very simple and highly predictable offense. I think we've been able to have success in the past because we had better athletes and a mobile, very cerebral QB in Cato. Our current QB is not mobile, is gun shy and I think has a limited football IQ.
Our Oline has been devastated by injuries and not consistent. Our D is young with only 2 senior starters and freshmen and sophomores making up most of the playing time in the secondary.

Doc is an old school guy and disciplinarian. Our attrition rate is high because he kicks kids off or they leave because of his policies. This killed our depth and has taken away many talented kids.

To be brutally honest, it will take us 2-3 years to right this ship, if we do. Drastic changes in the OC and mindset have to be made. Our funding is stagnant and state dollars drying up. Thus any new funding must come from the fan base. We are second in the league now in tix revenue and giving - which is driven by the fans. I don't see that increasing any time soon.

To get back on track, we'll need -
A new OC
A new QB
Some Jucos or grad transfers for plug some holes quick
A new attitude from the team in general.

I see another tough year in 2017. 7-5 at best. jmo.

I don't think we NEED a new QB necessarily, but I do think we need a new OC. Legg's limitations are glaring now, with this year even putting focus on his failings in years past. I think Litton can do solid things here, because he did so last year, but all the pieces need to be in place.

One final point I'll make is that it feels like something else is going on beyond just poor O play calling and a young D. It feels like there's way, way less cohesion and team mentality with this year's team. I hope there's not some weirdness going on behind the scenes or in the locker room, but it very much feels that way from my point of view.

\
Agree. Not the same cohesiveness we've seen in the past.

(11-16-2016 09:34 AM)SVHerd Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 09:29 AM)RedParallax Wrote:  

(11-15-2016 04:04 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Our coach has made his name as recruiter only. He's not an X's and O's guy. While I like him and his passion, he needs to surround himself with excellent assistants. For the most part he has, but the OC is terrible and runs a very simple and highly predictable offense. I think we've been able to have success in the past because we had better athletes and a mobile, very cerebral QB in Cato. Our current QB is not mobile, is gun shy and I think has a limited football IQ.
Our Oline has been devastated by injuries and not consistent. Our D is young with only 2 senior starters and freshmen and sophomores making up most of the playing time in the secondary.

Doc is an old school guy and disciplinarian. Our attrition rate is high because he kicks kids off or they leave because of his policies. This killed our depth and has taken away many talented kids.

To be brutally honest, it will take us 2-3 years to right this ship, if we do. Drastic changes in the OC and mindset have to be made. Our funding is stagnant and state dollars drying up. Thus any new funding must come from the fan base. We are second in the league now in tix revenue and giving - which is driven by the fans. I don't see that increasing any time soon.

To get back on track, we'll need -
A new OC
A new QB
Some Jucos or grad transfers for plug some holes quick
A new attitude from the team in general.

I see another tough year in 2017. 7-5 at best. jmo.

I don't think we NEED a new QB necessarily, but I do think we need a new OC. Legg's limitations are glaring now, with this year even putting focus on his failings in years past. I think Litton can do solid things here, because he did so last year, but all the pieces need to be in place.

One final point I'll make is that it feels like something else is going on beyond just poor O play calling and a young D. It feels like there's way, way less cohesion and team mentality with this year's team. I hope there's not some weirdness going on behind the scenes or in the locker room, but it very much feels that way from my point of view.

\
Agree. Not the same cohesiveness we've seen in the past.

We are about as cohesive as a stool from someone fighting rotavirus.... Last week was good, but I'm not convinced

(11-15-2016 03:34 PM)isidnirb Wrote:  How can a solid program like Marshall fall apart like this? Solid coach who stays at the school, recruits great athletes, great fans...it doesn't add up. Don't they have some 4* recruits on that team? Was looking at recruiting board for 2017 and little with recruits.

What is an honest assessment of the program today?

Here's why:

1. Doc has not been a good recruiter, that is probably his biggest weakness among a slew of weaknesses and the biggest "urban legend" surrounding him. When you factor in the % of each class who never make the field (props, etc.), we've come out middle of the pack in a BAD CUSA each year. This year shows that. We got out talented by AKRON. We are losing 40-60% of our top 10 in each class each year. That type of attrition is too much for a G5 to handle. Any coach can get the kids Doc is getting (which aren't even that great) if they stoop to that level/are dumb enough.

2. We have been slowly getting worse each year under Doc. Yes that is possible (even during the "10 win seasons"). Remember, Doc was 5-7, 7-6, 5-7 before the conference got gutted...then magically can win 10 when we got to play the easiest schedules in college football. His best year, I would argue...even better than 2014 was the 7-6 2011 season. He had more quality wins that year than all other seasons combined.

We will go 0-12 next year if Doc is still here, and it will not surprise the true Herd Fans. The guy is lost, a bad recruiter, ultra conservative, and is responsible for some of the biggest debacles in our football program's history (The #1 wvu in 2010, VaTech in 2013, the Akron blowout loss at Home this year, and many other head scratching ultra conservative in game moments).

There is a reason no other program wants this guy, even after "3 10 win seasons". If you want to get out recruited each year, out-coached every game, and want to see your team punt on your opponent's 35 multiple times a game...he's your guy. If not, then literally choose any other coach from a hat in college football (including FCS & Div. II)...and you're likely to come out in better shape.

(11-15-2016 04:04 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Our coach has made his name as recruiter only. He's not an X's and O's guy. While I like him and his passion, he needs to surround himself with excellent assistants. For the most part he has, but the OC is terrible and runs a very simple and highly predictable offense. I think we've been able to have success in the past because we had better athletes and a mobile, very cerebral QB in Cato. Our current QB is not mobile, is gun shy and I think has a limited football IQ.
Our Oline has been devastated by injuries and not consistent. Our D is young with only 2 senior starters and freshmen and sophomores making up most of the playing time in the secondary.

Doc is an old school guy and disciplinarian. Our attrition rate is high because he kicks kids off or they leave because of his policies. This killed our depth and has taken away many talented kids.

To be brutally honest, it will take us 2-3 years to right this ship, if we do. Drastic changes in the OC and mindset have to be made. Our funding is stagnant and state dollars drying up. Thus any new funding must come from the fan base. We are second in the league now in tix revenue and giving - which is driven by the fans. I don't see that increasing any time soon.

To get back on track, we'll need -
A new OC
A new QB
Some Jucos or grad transfers for plug some holes quick
A new attitude from the team in general.

I see another tough year in 2017. 7-5 at best. jmo.

We do NOT need a new QB. Litton is a tslented kid, playing football with a terrible OC and bad coaching all around. His numbers speak for themselves. QBR of around 140 and not good enough for SV.

Litton is a very good QB. I think a coaching shift will happen. Marshall is a good team with a bad record. They have plenty of talent. With the right motivation and strategy, they are deadly as we saw last week. If they played with that effort all year, they would have a much different record. That's all this is. They need people on their staff that can motivate and support them each week.

When y'all find out where those coaches are, send a couple down to Murfreesboro too. We could use some motivation right now ourselves. Sheesh.

Seems to me that Marshall has a vanilla offense that expect to over talent everyone they play.
Throw in an inaccurate QB, and players that don't seem to put out the crazy effort and a downturn is certainly possible.

(11-18-2016 10:35 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(11-15-2016 04:04 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Our coach has made his name as recruiter only. He's not an X's and O's guy. While I like him and his passion, he needs to surround himself with excellent assistants. For the most part he has, but the OC is terrible and runs a very simple and highly predictable offense. I think we've been able to have success in the past because we had better athletes and a mobile, very cerebral QB in Cato. Our current QB is not mobile, is gun shy and I think has a limited football IQ.
Our Oline has been devastated by injuries and not consistent. Our D is young with only 2 senior starters and freshmen and sophomores making up most of the playing time in the secondary.

Doc is an old school guy and disciplinarian. Our attrition rate is high because he kicks kids off or they leave because of his policies. This killed our depth and has taken away many talented kids.

To be brutally honest, it will take us 2-3 years to right this ship, if we do. Drastic changes in the OC and mindset have to be made. Our funding is stagnant and state dollars drying up. Thus any new funding must come from the fan base. We are second in the league now in tix revenue and giving - which is driven by the fans. I don't see that increasing any time soon.

To get back on track, we'll need -
A new OC
A new QB
Some Jucos or grad transfers for plug some holes quick
A new attitude from the team in general.

I see another tough year in 2017. 7-5 at best. jmo.

We do NOT need a new QB. Litton is a tslented kid, playing football with a terrible OC and bad coaching all around. His numbers speak for themselves. QBR of around 140 and not good enough for SV.

Don't be surprised if Litton transfers out at the end of the Fall Semester.

(11-18-2016 10:35 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(11-15-2016 04:04 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Our coach has made his name as recruiter only. He's not an X's and O's guy. While I like him and his passion, he needs to surround himself with excellent assistants. For the most part he has, but the OC is terrible and runs a very simple and highly predictable offense. I think we've been able to have success in the past because we had better athletes and a mobile, very cerebral QB in Cato. Our current QB is not mobile, is gun shy and I think has a limited football IQ.
Our Oline has been devastated by injuries and not consistent. Our D is young with only 2 senior starters and freshmen and sophomores making up most of the playing time in the secondary.

Doc is an old school guy and disciplinarian. Our attrition rate is high because he kicks kids off or they leave because of his policies. This killed our depth and has taken away many talented kids.

To be brutally honest, it will take us 2-3 years to right this ship, if we do. Drastic changes in the OC and mindset have to be made. Our funding is stagnant and state dollars drying up. Thus any new funding must come from the fan base. We are second in the league now in tix revenue and giving - which is driven by the fans. I don't see that increasing any time soon.

To get back on track, we'll need -
A new OC
A new QB
Some Jucos or grad transfers for plug some holes quick
A new attitude from the team in general.

I see another tough year in 2017. 7-5 at best. jmo.

We do NOT need a new QB. Litton is a tslented kid, playing football with a terrible OC and bad coaching all around. His numbers speak for themselves. QBR of around 140 and not good enough for SV.

He doesn't fit our system, plays scared, and has yet to correct mechanical issues in two full seasons as a starter. Add in the fact that he is the least liked player on the team. He needs to transfer to a school that runs a pro style offense - not our supposed read option.

(11-21-2016 08:52 AM)SVHerd Wrote:  

(11-18-2016 10:35 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(11-15-2016 04:04 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Our coach has made his name as recruiter only. He's not an X's and O's guy. While I like him and his passion, he needs to surround himself with excellent assistants. For the most part he has, but the OC is terrible and runs a very simple and highly predictable offense. I think we've been able to have success in the past because we had better athletes and a mobile, very cerebral QB in Cato. Our current QB is not mobile, is gun shy and I think has a limited football IQ.
Our Oline has been devastated by injuries and not consistent. Our D is young with only 2 senior starters and freshmen and sophomores making up most of the playing time in the secondary.

Doc is an old school guy and disciplinarian. Our attrition rate is high because he kicks kids off or they leave because of his policies. This killed our depth and has taken away many talented kids.

To be brutally honest, it will take us 2-3 years to right this ship, if we do. Drastic changes in the OC and mindset have to be made. Our funding is stagnant and state dollars drying up. Thus any new funding must come from the fan base. We are second in the league now in tix revenue and giving - which is driven by the fans. I don't see that increasing any time soon.

To get back on track, we'll need -
A new OC
A new QB
Some Jucos or grad transfers for plug some holes quick
A new attitude from the team in general.

I see another tough year in 2017. 7-5 at best. jmo.

We do NOT need a new QB. Litton is a tslented kid, playing football with a terrible OC and bad coaching all around. His numbers speak for themselves. QBR of around 140 and not good enough for SV.

He doesn't fit our system, plays scared, and has yet to correct mechanical issues in two full seasons as a starter. Add in the fact that he is the least liked player on the team. He needs to transfer to a school that runs a pro style offense - not our supposed read option.

Yeah, lets get a QB that can't drop back and throw, one that needs to be as good as Cato to make our offense be able to get a first down. Sounds like a plan.

This is like saying a ferrari has a bad engine because it has a bad driver (legg). Or better yet, you would want to trade asay a Chad Pennington, because thr idiot coach doesn't want to use him.

Legg needs to adjust his playcalling to what he has, no adjust the player to the bad playcalling as it is. Teams would kill for a good QB like litton, and i just hope he doesn't see idiotic posts and decide to go play for one of them, instead of us.