Billy_Bearcat
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
(11-12-2016 06:15 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote: (11-12-2016 06:09 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote: (11-12-2016 05:28 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: It's just so hard to convict an officer is anything. Certain People just accept whatever they say as fact.
Actually not entirely true in this case. All 12 voted to convict, they just couldn't agree on the charge. From what they've shown the public I can't blame them. He's guilty, but murder? That's a high bar.
The video shows his life was not in danger, he shot the guy in the head, and then lied about it. I'm sure drunks don't mean to hit you head-on and kill you, but they get convicted of vehicular homicide.
That's my point. They're convicted of homicide NOT murder. In the justice system there is a huge difference. Deters would have had his conviction had he not charged murder. Murder has to have a premeditated intent.
Only 4 jurors voted guilty to murder.
The other 8 voted guilty to homicide.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2016 07:29 PM by Billy_Bearcat.)
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11-12-2016 07:28 PM |
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gerhard911
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
(11-12-2016 07:28 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote: (11-12-2016 06:15 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote: (11-12-2016 06:09 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote: (11-12-2016 05:28 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: It's just so hard to convict an officer is anything. Certain People just accept whatever they say as fact.
Actually not entirely true in this case. All 12 voted to convict, they just couldn't agree on the charge. From what they've shown the public I can't blame them. He's guilty, but murder? That's a high bar.
The video shows his life was not in danger, he shot the guy in the head, and then lied about it. I'm sure drunks don't mean to hit you head-on and kill you, but they get convicted of vehicular homicide.
That's my point. They're convicted of homicide NOT murder. In the justice system there is a huge difference. Deters would have had his conviction had he not charged murder. Murder has to have a premeditated intent.
Only 4 jurors voted guilty to murder.
The other 8 voted guilty to homicide.
If that is the case, the 4 who wanted a murder conviction should have agreed to the lesser charge and at least gotten a conviction. In a county full of dossbigs, expecting to ever seat a jury that would convict on murder is delusional. More likely the next jury acquits.
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11-12-2016 07:39 PM |
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doss2
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
(11-12-2016 07:39 PM)gerhard911 Wrote: (11-12-2016 07:28 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote: (11-12-2016 06:15 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote: (11-12-2016 06:09 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote: (11-12-2016 05:28 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: It's just so hard to convict an officer is anything. Certain People just accept whatever they say as fact.
Actually not entirely true in this case. All 12 voted to convict, they just couldn't agree on the charge. From what they've shown the public I can't blame them. He's guilty, but murder? That's a high bar.
The video shows his life was not in danger, he shot the guy in the head, and then lied about it. I'm sure drunks don't mean to hit you head-on and kill you, but they get convicted of vehicular homicide.
That's my point. They're convicted of homicide NOT murder. In the justice system there is a huge difference. Deters would have had his conviction had he not charged murder. Murder has to have a premeditated intent.
Only 4 jurors voted guilty to murder.
The other 8 voted guilty to homicide.
If that is the case, the 4 who wanted a murder conviction should have agreed to the lesser charge and at least gotten a conviction. In a county full of dossbigs, expecting to ever seat a jury that would convict on murder is delusional. More likely the next jury acquits.
I am not in that county. Too liberal for me. Lock'em up or Glock'em down!
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11-12-2016 08:02 PM |
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CliftonAve
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
tensing was overcharged. he is possibly guilty of reckless and/or negligent homocide, but not the charges he was brought up on. For clarification here is how these crimes are defined by the Ohio Revised Codes:
2903.01 Aggravated murder.
(A) No person shall purposely, and with prior calculation and design, cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy.
2903.03 Voluntary manslaughter.
(A) No person, while under the influence of sudden passion or in a sudden fit of rage, either of which is brought on by serious provocation occasioned by the victim that is reasonably sufficient to incite the person into using deadly force, shall knowingly cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy.
There was no evidence this death occurred with prior calculation and design so the first charge is out. The second charge could have flown if the State put in evidence Tensing acted out of a fit of rage, but the testimony that he acted because he feared for his life gave reasonable doubt (which the State has a burden to overcome).
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2016 08:03 PM by CliftonAve.)
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11-12-2016 08:03 PM |
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Intimidate Dominate Celebrate
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
(11-12-2016 07:28 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote: (11-12-2016 06:15 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote: (11-12-2016 06:09 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote: (11-12-2016 05:28 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: It's just so hard to convict an officer is anything. Certain People just accept whatever they say as fact.
Actually not entirely true in this case. All 12 voted to convict, they just couldn't agree on the charge. From what they've shown the public I can't blame them. He's guilty, but murder? That's a high bar.
The video shows his life was not in danger, he shot the guy in the head, and then lied about it. I'm sure drunks don't mean to hit you head-on and kill you, but they get convicted of vehicular homicide.
That's my point. They're convicted of homicide NOT murder. In the justice system there is a huge difference. Deters would have had his conviction had he not charged murder. Murder has to have a premeditated intent.
Only 4 jurors voted guilty to murder.
The other 8 voted guilty to homicide.
Its my understanding 4 jurors voted for aquital. Those were 2 separate votes. Murder vote 4 guilty 8 innocent, homicide vote 8 guilty 4 innocent.
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11-12-2016 08:15 PM |
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CliftonAve
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
(11-12-2016 08:03 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: tensing was overcharged. he is possibly guilty of reckless and/or negligent homocide, but not the charges he was brought up on. For clarification here is how these crimes are defined by the Ohio Revised Codes:
2903.02 Murder.
(A) No person shall purposely cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy.
2903.03 Voluntary manslaughter.
(A) No person, while under the influence of sudden passion or in a sudden fit of rage, either of which is brought on by serious provocation occasioned by the victim that is reasonably sufficient to incite the person into using deadly force, shall knowingly cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy.
The first charge is a huge stretch. He did not purposely kill Dubose, he screwed up. The second charge could have flown if the State put in evidence Tensing acted out of a fit of rage, but the testimony that he acted because he feared for his life gave reasonable doubt (which the State has a burden to overcome).
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11-12-2016 08:22 PM |
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Bearhawkeye
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
(11-12-2016 08:15 PM)Intimidate Dominate Celebrate Wrote: (11-12-2016 07:28 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote: (11-12-2016 06:15 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote: (11-12-2016 06:09 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote: (11-12-2016 05:28 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: It's just so hard to convict an officer is anything. Certain People just accept whatever they say as fact.
Actually not entirely true in this case. All 12 voted to convict, they just couldn't agree on the charge. From what they've shown the public I can't blame them. He's guilty, but murder? That's a high bar.
The video shows his life was not in danger, he shot the guy in the head, and then lied about it. I'm sure drunks don't mean to hit you head-on and kill you, but they get convicted of vehicular homicide.
That's my point. They're convicted of homicide NOT murder. In the justice system there is a huge difference. Deters would have had his conviction had he not charged murder. Murder has to have a premeditated intent.
Only 4 jurors voted guilty to murder.
The other 8 voted guilty to homicide.
Its my understanding 4 jurors voted for aquital. Those were 2 separate votes. Murder vote 4 guilty 8 innocent, homicide vote 8 guilty 4 innocent.
hopefully this helps clarify:
Quote:Deters’ options include re-trying Tensing on the same murder and voluntary manslaughter charges. He also could take the case to another grand jury and seek lesser charges, such as reckless homicide or negligent homicide. Or he could drop the case entirely.
After a two-week trial in Hamilton County Common Pleas Court, including more than 25 hours of deliberations, jurors voted eight to four in favor of a voluntary manslaughter conviction, Deters said.
At least three jurors were willing to find Tensing, a white man, guilty of the murder in the killing of DuBose, a black motorist.
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11-12-2016 08:30 PM |
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Billy_Bearcat
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
Thanks for the clarification Hawk. WLW's initial report was obviously either mistaken or poorly worded.
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11-12-2016 08:51 PM |
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BeerCat
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
The dumb **** was wearing a t shirt with a conferderate flag on it under his uniform. This guy is a first class moron.
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11-12-2016 11:15 PM |
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dave108
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
(11-12-2016 08:51 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote: Thanks for the clarification Hawk. WLW's initial report was obviously either mistaken or poorly worded.
2 things: 1) Deters did overcharge, in an attempt to pander to the left - my thought is that he's too arrogant to admit it and drop the murder charge next time 2) WLW misreporting something? huh, never heard of that happening (sarcasm towards the big juan)
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2016 06:56 AM by dave108.)
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11-13-2016 06:56 AM |
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doss2
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
Charging murder in this case was simply pandering to the BLM crowd or an incredibly poor strategy.
A reasonable lone charge of voluntary manslaughter would have allowed Deters to argue over reaction or emotional excitement.
In Ohio, the difference between murder and voluntary manslaughter is simple. Both involve purposefully killing someone. However, it is voluntary manslaughter when the killer's thinking was disturbed by emotional excitement to the point that a reasonable person might have acted on impulse without thinking twice. The killing itself must be the result of the emotional excitement.
This typically happens when a person is acting in self-defense, but overreacts and kills another person. The person technically acted with the intent to kill, but the self defense was "in the heat of passion" so the court will likely find the person guilty of voluntary manslaughter.
The reaction to kill has to happen instantaneously. If the person has had any time to "cool off" before they go perform the killing, it becomes a murder
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11-13-2016 08:18 AM |
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TubaCat
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
Regarding safety for the game tonight and games in the future, Chris Smitherman was just on 700 WLW talking about the case. He encouraged people to not protest downtown, and to instead protest at UC.
What a tool. I would expect no less from an O$U grad.
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11-14-2016 02:07 PM |
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bearcatfan
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
Right. Because UC chose the jurors and supplied the prosecutor.
Didn't UC already offer to provide the family free education and also a large sum of money? I thought Ono handled this as well as he could have under the circumstances.
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2016 02:15 PM by bearcatfan.)
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11-14-2016 02:14 PM |
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doss2
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
(11-14-2016 02:14 PM)bearcatfan Wrote: Right. Because UC chose the jurors and supplied the prosecutor.
Didn't UC already offer to provide the family free education and also a large sum of money? I thought Ono handled this as well as he could have under the circumstances.
I hope some of them take advantage of a free education but I suspect it will cost UC little. The worst part was putting up a memorial. Really a memorial to a serial law breaker, a serial spermer and drug dealer?
Regret all loss of life but he contributed substantially. If stopped this works:
1. Say yes and no. Comply with requests.
2. Produce DL, Registration and Proof of Insurance
3. Don't be carrying drugs or open containers
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11-14-2016 02:41 PM |
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TubaCat
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
(11-14-2016 02:41 PM)doss2 Wrote: (11-14-2016 02:14 PM)bearcatfan Wrote: Right. Because UC chose the jurors and supplied the prosecutor.
Didn't UC already offer to provide the family free education and also a large sum of money? I thought Ono handled this as well as he could have under the circumstances.
I hope some of them take advantage of a free education but I suspect it will cost UC little. The worst part was putting up a memorial. Really a memorial to a serial law breaker, a serial spermer and drug dealer?
Regret all loss of life but he contributed substantially. If stopped this works:
1. Say yes and no. Comply with requests.
2. Produce DL, Registration and Proof of Insurance
3. Don't be carrying drugs or open containers
My biggest takeaway from that comment is the term "serial spermer."
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11-14-2016 03:08 PM |
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doss2
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
Normally get off I75 at Mitchell then south on Vine through the hood. Friday going the safe way via Hopple exit to University Ave. to Vine then south to Corry Garage
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11-15-2016 05:03 PM |
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Ragpicker
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
(11-15-2016 05:03 PM)doss2 Wrote: Normally get off I75 at Mitchell then south on Vine through the hood. Friday going the safe way via Hopple exit to University Ave. to Vine then south to Corry Garage
Same exit but head west on Mitchell. Turn left at first light just past Ford dealer and in front of McDonald's. Go past Krogers and turn left at next light. Straight up the hill towards Clifton Gaslight and you'll pass all the big money homes, Skyline, and straight past Burnett Woods.
Only scary moment you will have is going by all the liberal political signs posted in Gaslight.
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11-15-2016 05:35 PM |
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Captain Bearcat
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
(11-12-2016 11:15 PM)BeerCat Wrote: The dumb **** was wearing a t shirt with a conferderate flag on it under his uniform. This guy is a first class moron.
The only detail that I read was that a confederate flag was on the shirt. That doesn't necessarily mean it was a red-and-blue stars and bars t-shirt. It could have just been a Civil War t-shirt from Gettysburg National Park for all we know.
Of course since they didn't give any more details then we're left to speculate.
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11-15-2016 07:47 PM |
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CliftonAve
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
(11-15-2016 07:47 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: (11-12-2016 11:15 PM)BeerCat Wrote: The dumb **** was wearing a t shirt with a conferderate flag on it under his uniform. This guy is a first class moron.
The only detail that I read was that a confederate flag was on the shirt. That doesn't necessarily mean it was a red-and-blue stars and bars t-shirt. It could have just been a Civil War t-shirt from Gettysburg National Park for all we know.
Of course since they didn't give any more details then we're left to speculate.
This is the t-shirt in question. Tensing testified he is required to wear a black t-shirt under his uniform. He got this shirt while on a trip to Gatlinburg. It was simply next up in the rotation in his t-shirt drawer.
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11-15-2016 08:11 PM |
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doss2
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RE: Is it safe to go the game tonight?
(11-15-2016 05:35 PM)Ragpicker Wrote: (11-15-2016 05:03 PM)doss2 Wrote: Normally get off I75 at Mitchell then south on Vine through the hood. Friday going the safe way via Hopple exit to University Ave. to Vine then south to Corry Garage
Same exit but head west on Mitchell. Turn left at first light just past Ford dealer and in front of McDonald's. Go past Krogers and turn left at next light. Straight up the hill towards Clifton Gaslight and you'll pass all the big money homes, Skyline, and straight past Burnett Woods.
Only scary moment you will have is going by all the liberal political signs posted in Gaslight.
My rich HS friends lived in those houses. I was poor and lived in south Corryville.
(This post was last modified: 11-15-2016 10:24 PM by doss2.)
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11-15-2016 10:23 PM |
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