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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #61
RE: What are the odds
(11-14-2016 08:47 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I agree. However that supposition relies on the hope that head coach snuffy and the B-Listers he brought in to work under him have adequately identified and acquired young talent the last 4 signing days. I have my questions at several positions regarding that hope.

Agree. The most glaring IMO is QB. It doesn't matter if we bring in Nick Saban*, we will still be looking at a team with Hayden Moore and Ross Trail at QB.

* sarcasm alert for those who can't detect it.

I have my concerns at other positions as well.
 
11-14-2016 08:58 AM
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richardk Offline
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Post: #62
RE: What are the odds
(11-14-2016 08:19 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  The only scary thing about the 2004-2006 time range and the Tuberville era is that we now have clear evidence that UC without the power five label isn't very good. Kelly and Jones were in the Big East and never had to coach or recruit to UC outside of the power structure.

I'm not, and don't think anyone else is either, looking for them to recruit so we can compete against Alabama. How about just getting the talent level to put us at/near the top of the conference we are actually in? We should have a coaching staff and talent level so that we are positioned to have a reasonable chance to win our conference most, if not every, year. That would also mean we should/would be highly competitive against lower level P-5 teams and other G-5's in our non-conference games. The last half dozen games this season are not only not acceptable, but have been a compete and total embarrassment! So, is it that we can't/haven't recruited even to the level of USF/UCF/Temple, etc., or the coaching staff can't coach against that level of competition, or some combination thereof? We're not on the field against the Crimson Tide, we're on the field against against the Owls & the Huskies. Never mind the P-5, if we can't recruit/coach against them what a waste of $75-85 million.
 
11-14-2016 10:30 AM
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QSECOFR Offline
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Post: #63
RE: What are the odds
I gave up on predicting things completely after I thought -- and said -- that Hillary had it all sewed up. Seems as though I didn't inherit any predictor genes.
 
11-14-2016 10:37 AM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #64
RE: What are the odds
(11-14-2016 08:19 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Most people regard Mark Dantonio as part of the process that made UC but in reality his resume here was a lot worse than Tuberville. It took Kelly to put those pieces in the right spot before the winning really started. I think UC is in the same place right now as they were in 2004 through 2006.

Under Dantonio (18-17) here are all of the losses.
2004: 27-6 Ohio State, 19-7 Syracuse, 30-27 UAB, 48-29 Army (broke Army's long losing streak), 70-7 Louisville
2005: 42-24 Penn State, 44-16 Miami Ohio. 38-20 Pitt, 46-22 Louisville, 38-0 WVU, 31-16 USF, 44-9 Rutgers (Can't forget that 28-26 win EMU or 7-3 win over Western Carolina)
2006: 33-15 Pitt, 37-7 Ohio State, 29-13 Virginia Tech, 24-17 Louisville, 42-24 WVU

It wasn't until the middle of 2006 before the program started to show signs of life. The losses outside of a close game at Louisville in 2006 were really ugly. Those teams were very young on both sides of the ball. The offense in 2005 was awful and the 2006 version was slightly better.

I have hope that a new staff would have a quick turnaround where UC is in the hunt for a conference championship each year.. Heck I actually believe the current staff could turn this around to 7 wins next year if UC gets lucky.

The only scary thing about the 2004-2006 time range and the Tuberville era is that we now have clear evidence that UC without the power five label isn't very good. Kelly and Jones were in the Big East and never had to coach or recruit to UC outside of the power structure.

This is sort of a ridiculous post with little context.

Dantonio's first year Minter left him a pretty loaded senior class but absolutely nothing else. I thought he underachieved that season but it was his first year as a head coach and transitions aren't always easy. I think the next two classes were Minter's worst his entire time here and everyone knew the program was in rough shape. That doesn't even factor in that year 2 was UC's first year in a BCS conference.... that was pretty much the worst possible scenario and there was little value in taking anything out of year 2.

Given all of that, I think what Dantonio accomplished in year 3 was incredibly impressive. That was still an incredibly young team, playing one of the most brutal schedules in the country. The Big East was loaded that year and UC had OSU / VT in the nonconference. They were far more competitive in all those games than the scores indicated. They ran out of gas against OSU and really suffered a couple brutal calls against VT (where they held a 4th quarter lead). It all came together for that special night at Nippert knocking off unbeaten Rutgers. 2006 I had no idea what to expect, but after watching the 2006 season I absolutely believed UC was going to be competing for Big East titles the next few years. That 2006 team was so young and you could just see the players would be ready to make a leap.

Tuberville inherited a program riding high and has slowly decimated it against weaker competition. He had every advantage over the rest of the league and squandered it.
 
11-14-2016 10:38 AM
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OKIcat Offline
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Post: #65
RE: What are the odds
To me, consistently poor execution on special teams, year after year, is very telling in terms of coaching performance. And if that's just a talent issue who else is to blame but a fourth year head coach? As stated here previously, we don't need to beat Alabama or OSU to have some success in the G5; just UCF, UCONN, etc.

We have no choice but to wait 23 more days. Frankly, the only part of the program that energizes me right now is the anticipation of a new head coach. That and the belief that a new broom sweeps clean; inept performances by this entire staff are soon to be swept away.
 
11-14-2016 10:46 AM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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RE: What are the odds
I will only believe it when Bohn says, "We have decided that it is in the mutual best interest of both parties that Coach Tuberville's employment at the University of Cincinnati be discontinued."

Until I hear those, or similar, words come out of the AD's mouth, I believe that there's no chance of Tuberville being "fired." And given my dismal outlook on the Administration mind-set of UC, I think I'm going to be waiting a while to hear those words.

I'm more prepared to hear Tommy say, "Well, I've had a good run here at Cin-cin-nat-uh, and I think the program's in better shape than when I got here, so I'm retiring. Thank y'all." at the end of the 2017 season.
 
11-14-2016 11:47 AM
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Marcus Offline
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Post: #67
RE: What are the odds
There is absolutely no chance he is back. None. Be patient. The University, not just the athletic department, will be a complete laughing stock all throughout the country if he's not fired.
 
11-14-2016 02:09 PM
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Marcus Offline
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Post: #68
RE: What are the odds
(11-14-2016 07:49 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  We need a young hungry coach who is willing to do burn the midnight oil to win and get promoted to the P5. We also need one who hires coaches with Ohio recruiting ties and works it.

Agree completely. I'm honestly surprised Mel Tucker's name has not been thrown around.
 
11-14-2016 02:10 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: What are the odds
(11-14-2016 02:09 PM)Marcus Wrote:  There is absolutely no chance he is back. None. Be patient. The University, not just the athletic department, will be a complete laughing stock all throughout the country if he's not fired.

I agree but I'll believe it when I see it. People need to remember that Tubby has not made his career based on being a very good X and O guy. When he was successful it's been because he's had all stars as assistants and coordinators. He's also exceptionally good at schmoozing the power brokers. Dude is a snake oil salesman. You better believe he's in full court press mode when it comes to buttering up the folks that can impact this decision.
 
11-14-2016 02:27 PM
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Marcus Offline
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Post: #70
RE: What are the odds
(11-14-2016 02:27 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  
(11-14-2016 02:09 PM)Marcus Wrote:  There is absolutely no chance he is back. None. Be patient. The University, not just the athletic department, will be a complete laughing stock all throughout the country if he's not fired.

I agree but I'll believe it when I see it. People need to remember that Tubby has not made his career based on being a very good X and O guy. When he was successful it's been because he's had all stars as assistants and coordinators. He's also exceptionally good at schmoozing the power brokers. Dude is a snake oil salesman. You better believe he's in full court press mode when it comes to buttering up the folks that can impact this decision.

All of this is very true!
 
11-14-2016 02:40 PM
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rosewater Offline
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RE: What are the odds
Talent passes the eye test. We are stocked at defensive back, we are strong at line backer, we are adequate at d-line. We are ok at rb, we are strong at wr and we are abysmal on the ol and qb. These last two groups need a major upgrade.
 
11-14-2016 03:16 PM
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Marcus Offline
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RE: What are the odds
(11-14-2016 03:16 PM)rosewater Wrote:  Talent passes the eye test. We are stocked at defensive back, we are strong at line backer, we are adequate at d-line. We are ok at rb, we are strong at wr and we are abysmal on the ol and qb. These last two groups need a major upgrade.

I think we'd be better than 4-6 considering we have an incredibly weak schedule if our only two weak positions were QB and OL. Granted our OL recruiting under this staff has probably been the worst in all of college football over the last 3-4 years. Our talent at WR has fallen off a cliff compared to what the previous two staff's brought in. And I still think we are average across the board on defense. We've improved this year, but it's really nothing special. We are going to be incredibly weak at LB after this season. The cupboard looks bare there IMO. Coaching is no doubt an "F" and recruiting, which goes right along with that, has also plummeted rather significantly.
 
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2016 03:36 PM by Marcus.)
11-14-2016 03:27 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #73
RE: What are the odds
(11-14-2016 03:16 PM)rosewater Wrote:  Talent passes the eye test. We are stocked at defensive back, we are strong at line backer, we are adequate at d-line. We are ok at rb, we are strong at wr and we are abysmal on the ol and qb. These last two groups need a major upgrade.

I have more concerns about the roster than you. At linebacker, we lose the entire starting unit this season (Wilson, Kinnard and Tyson). The loss of Wilson and Kinnard are huge. Aside for Bryce Jenkinson (who will be coming off injury) the rest of the unit is unproven for the most part.

As to the d-line, we'll have to see if it is scheme or talent but we haven't been able to put any pressure on an opposing QB in years.

As to the receivers, aside from Khalil Lewis nobody else has impressed me. The 4 star transfers (Johnson, Kumara) have been not lived up to their ranking. Tshumbi Johnson hasn't had a season yet where he has not suffered injury. Jarron Rollins and Thomas Geddis have a long way to go to being serviceable. Do we have any tight ends on this roster (yes, I have heard Bruno Labell is a star in the making but I want to see him play before I buy into that salesmanship).

The RB situation bothers me as well. Before he got hurt Mike Boone had a whopping 400 yards on the ground. We haven't been able to run the ball at all and Taylor Boose and Joshuwa Hollowman haven't been able to garner any playing time. Maybe that is on the coaches, but I have to think if they were tearing it up they would have seen some action before now (by the way those guys need to play the last two games).

I agree with your sentiments about OL and QB.
 
11-14-2016 03:31 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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RE: What are the odds
I'm with Clifton. I see a lot of filler.
 
11-14-2016 03:47 PM
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daap_bearcat97 Offline
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RE: What are the odds
I truly believe that it is going to have to come from above Bohn's pay grade to can Fluberville. I have said before that Bohn won't do it and I agree with the snake oil salesman comment about Tuberville. Bohn and company will want to give him a hall pass, stating that is one bad season considering they went to a bowl game just last year. To these people it seems to not be about real results or competition, but rather Tommy says we went to a bowl game, aka bowlcation, and the the fact that we were physically there proves that we did in fact "go to a bowl game" regardless of the result. It is obvious that Bohn may be clueless and is drinking Tommy's kool-aid. Someone stated that at the town hall meetings Bohn was seemingly blaming the fans more than Tommy. I believe that the train has left the tracks and Kragthorpe looks to be driving.

Long story short, I give it a 10% chance that Tuberville is fired. With that said I would pay extra for my season tickets next year to not have TT on the sidelines. If he is still here, I am done.
 
11-14-2016 05:31 PM
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rosewater Offline
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Post: #76
RE: What are the odds
(11-14-2016 03:31 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(11-14-2016 03:16 PM)rosewater Wrote:  Talent passes the eye test. We are stocked at defensive back, we are strong at line backer, we are adequate at d-line. We are ok at rb, we are strong at wr and we are abysmal on the ol and qb. These last two groups need a major upgrade.

I have more concerns about the roster than you. At linebacker, we lose the entire starting unit this season (Wilson, Kinnard and Tyson). The loss of Wilson and Kinnard are huge. Aside for Bryce Jenkinson (who will be coming off injury) the rest of the unit is unproven for the most part.

As to the d-line, we'll have to see if it is scheme or talent but we haven't been able to put any pressure on an opposing QB in years.

As to the receivers, aside from Khalil Lewis nobody else has impressed me. The 4 star transfers (Johnson, Kumara) have been not lived up to their ranking. Tshumbi Johnson hasn't had a season yet where he has not suffered injury. Jarron Rollins and Thomas Geddis have a long way to go to being serviceable. Do we have any tight ends on this roster (yes, I have heard Bruno Labell is a star in the making but I want to see him play before I buy into that salesmanship).

The RB situation bothers me as well. Before he got hurt Mike Boone had a whopping 400 yards on the ground. We haven't been able to run the ball at all and Taylor Boose and Joshuwa Hollowman haven't been able to garner any playing time. Maybe that is on the coaches, but I have to think if they were tearing it up they would have seen some action before now (by the way those guys need to play the last two games).

I agree with your sentiments about OL and QB.

At linebacker, I have been impressed with Perry Young. We also have strathairn and Dublanski along with the kid from kings coming in next year. I am going strictly eye test with these three. Strathairn did not get a lot of reps in the scrimmage and I do not think that Dublanski played at all. Dublanski looks like a monster on the sideline. on the dl, Broughton is just a sophomore as well as 44. We still have Wright/Mouhon and 55 at De. Although his name excapes me, I have been very impressed with 55. he ran down Tshumbi in the spring scrimmage last year. This year, he has got a push especially when coaches have him stunt. Cannot remember the late addition wr from UCF but he passes the eye test. We also have Gray, Rollins and Geddis. Remember how bad Lewis was last year. I could see our freshmaen making a similar jump. At rb, we have Doaks from Indy as a potential playmaker to go along with Boone. not sure how Holiman and Boose will work out. I do not want to run anyone down, but there is one olineman that really concerns me in the two deep. It makes me wonder about the overall health at this position. And the quarterbacks geesh. It will be a rebuilding year, but 500 is achievable with some coaching.
 
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2016 05:36 PM by rosewater.)
11-14-2016 05:32 PM
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bearcatmark Offline
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RE: What are the odds
Broughton is a stud. Been do impressed with him all year
 
11-14-2016 06:01 PM
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marcuscan Offline
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RE: What are the odds
(11-13-2016 06:19 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(11-13-2016 06:15 PM)marcuscan Wrote:  90% he's gone.

The buyout is nothing. They'll wait until it drops, buy him out, and move on.

It's clear he's losing fans, and admin support. However, i have frat brothers on the team. He has NOT lost the players. Nevertheless, he's outta here


mc

Marcus, who do think will be the coach next year?

Good question, however to this i have no good answer. Your guess is as good as mine at this point. If/ when it happens I could try to dig around more.



mc
 
11-14-2016 10:14 PM
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marcuscan Offline
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RE: What are the odds
(11-13-2016 09:03 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(11-13-2016 06:15 PM)marcuscan Wrote:  90% he's gone.

The buyout is nothing. They'll wait until it drops, buy him out, and move on.

It's clear he's losing fans, and admin support. However, i have frat brothers on the team. He has NOT lost the players. Nevertheless, he's outta here


mc

Curious if they have any more insight that you'd be able/willing to share without getting anyone in trouble?

Without getting too specific - just an overriding feeling that they feel like it's hard to blame the guy when it's the players out there on the field getting it/ NOT getting it done.

Either way....not getting the vibe AT ALL that the team has turned their back on him.

Now, how some in the administration feel...? that's a different question. Ultimately, they'll be the deciders.


mc
 
11-14-2016 10:16 PM
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ohio1317 Offline
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RE: What are the odds
I think it is close to 100%. He's lost the fanbase and their doesn't seem to be any positive momentum to build on that he created this year.

You are not going to see the AD's office give any public statement making it sound like he will be gone at the end of the year. If they did that a) it becomes a distraction to the team and b) it possibly opens you up to a lawsuit (Tubberville might be able to say he is basically already fired and should get the full amount of buyout from this point rather than the end of the year payout).

I think it will playout something like this:
1. November 2nd: Season Ends.
2. November 2nd or 3rd: Bohn announces he is going to start a review of the football program (or could announce this earlier, but says it will start at season end).
3. Tubberville fired the day of/one day after the buyout drops.
 
11-15-2016 01:26 AM
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