https://thedailydragon.com/2016/11/08/to...-forwards/

Again, appreciate your work. Just going to point out some numbers:

Per 100 Possessions:

McCree 12.8 reb, 2.2 ast, 1.1 stl, 0.9 blk, 27.9 points 103.9 ORtg, 98.4 DRtg
Lee 14.3 reb, 2.5 ast, 1.1 stl, 4.5 blk, 17 points, 110.1 ORtg, 94.6 DRtg
Cokley 16.9 reb, 3.7 ast, 2.3 stl, 1.8 blk, 34.3 points, 125.2 ORtg, 96.9 DRtg
Upshaw 15.8 reb, 4.0 asst, 2.7 stl, 1.5 blk, 25.5 points, 110.2 ORtg, 95.7 DRtg
Combs 18.4 reb, 1.4 ast, 2.4 stl, 1.3 blk, 26.1 points, 117.7 ORtg, 103.7 DRtg
Johnson 15.9 reb, 2.8 ast, 0.9 stl, 1.1, 29.9 points, 125.1 ORtg, 108.6 DRtg
Stith 22.7 reb, 0.9 ast, 1.5 stl, 4.7 blk, 24.3 points, 112.7 ORtg, 90.5 DRtg


There are some outstanding forwards in the conference, but I have a hard time believing Stith is the 7th best with a 24/23 line per 100 possession and a net 22.2 rating. I think you could probably argue he played much of the year on a bad knee as well.

I think a strong case could be made (just based on last year) that Cokley and Stith are the best 2 forwards in the conference.

If you are going strictly off the exhibition games. Justin Johnson will have a Manu Ginobili type role for WKU in being the first to come off the bench but playing more minutes then the 2 starters down low.

Our starting line-up in the exhibition games was Lomomba, Pancake, "Que" Johnson, Carmichael, and Lawson. With Justin Johnson the first off the bench.

(11-08-2016 04:01 PM)Rojogrande Wrote:  If you are going strictly off the exhibition games. Justin Johnson will have a Manu Ginobili type role for WKU in being the first to come off the bench but playing more minutes then the 2 starters down low.

Our starting line-up in the exhibition games was Lomomba, Pancake, "Que" Johnson, Carmichael, and Lawson. With Justin Johnson the first off the bench.

I have a hard time believing Ben starts over Justin. Justin can defend most 5's. But, I see what you're saying about being first off the bench and playing starter minutes. Cokley and Lee both did this for us last season.

(11-08-2016 03:17 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Again, appreciate your work. Just going to point out some numbers:

Per 100 Possessions:

McCree 12.8 reb, 2.2 ast, 1.1 stl, 0.9 blk, 27.9 points 103.9 ORtg, 98.4 DRtg
Lee 14.3 reb, 2.5 ast, 1.1 stl, 4.5 blk, 17 points, 110.1 ORtg, 94.6 DRtg
Cokley 16.9 reb, 3.7 ast, 2.3 stl, 1.8 blk, 34.3 points, 125.2 ORtg, 96.9 DRtg
Upshaw 15.8 reb, 4.0 asst, 2.7 stl, 1.5 blk, 25.5 points, 110.2 ORtg, 95.7 DRtg
Combs 18.4 reb, 1.4 ast, 2.4 stl, 1.3 blk, 26.1 points, 117.7 ORtg, 103.7 DRtg
Johnson 15.9 reb, 2.8 ast, 0.9 stl, 1.1, 29.9 points, 125.1 ORtg, 108.6 DRtg
Stith 22.7 reb, 0.9 ast, 1.5 stl, 4.7 blk, 24.3 points, 112.7 ORtg, 90.5 DRtg


There are some outstanding forwards in the conference, but I have a hard time believing Stith is the 7th best with a 24/23 line per 100 possession and a net 22.2 rating. I think you could probably argue he played much of the year on a bad knee as well.

I think a strong case could be made (just based on last year) that Cokley and Stith are the best 2 forwards in the conference.

This is where the subjective aspect of the ranking comes in to play. I considered not only the player's skill set and stats but what they mean to the team's success and how they'll be depended on.

(11-08-2016 04:13 PM)BlazerGold09 Wrote:  

(11-08-2016 04:01 PM)Rojogrande Wrote:  If you are going strictly off the exhibition games. Justin Johnson will have a Manu Ginobili type role for WKU in being the first to come off the bench but playing more minutes then the 2 starters down low.

Our starting line-up in the exhibition games was Lomomba, Pancake, "Que" Johnson, Carmichael, and Lawson. With Justin Johnson the first off the bench.

I have a hard time believing Ben starts over Justin. Justin can defend most 5's. But, I see what you're saying about being first off the bench and playing starter minutes. Cokley and Lee both did this for us last season.

I have a hard time believing Lawson won't start. Stanz is demanding a lot out of Lawson this season and is trying to keep his confidence up. If Justin does get moved into the starting line-up it will likely be for Carmichael. With Willie then becoming the energy guy off the bench. Because he is all energy all the time.

It isn't about who starts it is about who finishes though. And Justin will be on the floor at the end of the game.

As always great read BG09

I agree with the top 5 picks, McCree is a complete player and could possibly avg 20/10, James Kelley and McCree were the only two players in the conference top 10 in scoring and rebounding last year.
Cokley and Lee are going to be tough for any team to handle, And Upshaw is solid all-around player.

(11-08-2016 04:20 PM)Rojogrande Wrote:  

(11-08-2016 04:13 PM)BlazerGold09 Wrote:  

(11-08-2016 04:01 PM)Rojogrande Wrote:  If you are going strictly off the exhibition games. Justin Johnson will have a Manu Ginobili type role for WKU in being the first to come off the bench but playing more minutes then the 2 starters down low.

Our starting line-up in the exhibition games was Lomomba, Pancake, "Que" Johnson, Carmichael, and Lawson. With Justin Johnson the first off the bench.

I have a hard time believing Ben starts over Justin. Justin can defend most 5's. But, I see what you're saying about being first off the bench and playing starter minutes. Cokley and Lee both did this for us last season.

I have a hard time believing Lawson won't start. Stanz is demanding a lot out of Lawson this season and is trying to keep his confidence up. If Justin does get moved into the starting line-up it will likely be for Carmichael. With Willie then becoming the energy guy off the bench. Because he is all energy all the time.

It isn't about who starts it is about who finishes though. And Justin will be on the floor at the end of the game.

I'm glad you're telling me this because I would have assumed Ben would fall to the wayside such based on watching his play last season. C-USA is a conference you can be successful in with 6-8 players and smaller. As you said it's really irrelevant if Justin starts or not.

(11-08-2016 04:27 PM)Dawgxas Wrote:  As always great read BG09

I agree with the top 5 picks, McCree is a complete player and could possibly avg 20/10, James Kelley and McCree were the only two players in the conference top 10 in scoring and rebounding last year.
Cokley and Lee are going to be tough for any team to handle, And Upshaw is solid all-around player.

One of my goals with all this conference pre-season coverage was to paint the picture that C-USA should be improved this season. Most teams have 2-3 solid players and the coaching is solid more the majority of the teams.

Nice work again homie.

I appreciate it and read it.

(11-08-2016 04:14 PM)BlazerGold09 Wrote:  

(11-08-2016 03:17 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Again, appreciate your work. Just going to point out some numbers:

Per 100 Possessions:

McCree 12.8 reb, 2.2 ast, 1.1 stl, 0.9 blk, 27.9 points 103.9 ORtg, 98.4 DRtg
Lee 14.3 reb, 2.5 ast, 1.1 stl, 4.5 blk, 17 points, 110.1 ORtg, 94.6 DRtg
Cokley 16.9 reb, 3.7 ast, 2.3 stl, 1.8 blk, 34.3 points, 125.2 ORtg, 96.9 DRtg
Upshaw 15.8 reb, 4.0 asst, 2.7 stl, 1.5 blk, 25.5 points, 110.2 ORtg, 95.7 DRtg
Combs 18.4 reb, 1.4 ast, 2.4 stl, 1.3 blk, 26.1 points, 117.7 ORtg, 103.7 DRtg
Johnson 15.9 reb, 2.8 ast, 0.9 stl, 1.1, 29.9 points, 125.1 ORtg, 108.6 DRtg
Stith 22.7 reb, 0.9 ast, 1.5 stl, 4.7 blk, 24.3 points, 112.7 ORtg, 90.5 DRtg


There are some outstanding forwards in the conference, but I have a hard time believing Stith is the 7th best with a 24/23 line per 100 possession and a net 22.2 rating. I think you could probably argue he played much of the year on a bad knee as well.

I think a strong case could be made (just based on last year) that Cokley and Stith are the best 2 forwards in the conference.

This is where the subjective aspect of the ranking comes in to play. I considered not only the player's skill set and stats but what they mean to the team's success and how they'll be depended on.

Ten years ago (or so), Major League Baseball attempted to measure subjectivity by inventing a stat: the "game-winning r.b.i.". One of you baseball wonks will need to tell me if that stat is still being measured, but I don't hear much about it anymore.

If there was a comparable measure for the most reliable CUSA big men in the clutch, I have to say that McCree and Upshaw are the two who most tormented ODU in our games.

Just my subjective opinion.

(11-08-2016 09:10 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-08-2016 04:14 PM)BlazerGold09 Wrote:  

(11-08-2016 03:17 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Again, appreciate your work. Just going to point out some numbers:

Per 100 Possessions:

McCree 12.8 reb, 2.2 ast, 1.1 stl, 0.9 blk, 27.9 points 103.9 ORtg, 98.4 DRtg
Lee 14.3 reb, 2.5 ast, 1.1 stl, 4.5 blk, 17 points, 110.1 ORtg, 94.6 DRtg
Cokley 16.9 reb, 3.7 ast, 2.3 stl, 1.8 blk, 34.3 points, 125.2 ORtg, 96.9 DRtg
Upshaw 15.8 reb, 4.0 asst, 2.7 stl, 1.5 blk, 25.5 points, 110.2 ORtg, 95.7 DRtg
Combs 18.4 reb, 1.4 ast, 2.4 stl, 1.3 blk, 26.1 points, 117.7 ORtg, 103.7 DRtg
Johnson 15.9 reb, 2.8 ast, 0.9 stl, 1.1, 29.9 points, 125.1 ORtg, 108.6 DRtg
Stith 22.7 reb, 0.9 ast, 1.5 stl, 4.7 blk, 24.3 points, 112.7 ORtg, 90.5 DRtg


There are some outstanding forwards in the conference, but I have a hard time believing Stith is the 7th best with a 24/23 line per 100 possession and a net 22.2 rating. I think you could probably argue he played much of the year on a bad knee as well.

I think a strong case could be made (just based on last year) that Cokley and Stith are the best 2 forwards in the conference.

This is where the subjective aspect of the ranking comes in to play. I considered not only the player's skill set and stats but what they mean to the team's success and how they'll be depended on.

Ten years ago (or so), Major League Baseball attempted to measure subjectivity by inventing a stat: the "game-winning r.b.i.". One of you baseball wonks will need to tell me if that stat is still being measured, but I don't hear much about it anymore.

If there was a comparable measure for the most reliable CUSA big men in the clutch, I have to say that McCree and Upshaw are the two who most tormented ODU in our games.

Just my subjective opinion.

I'd have to give my vote for that to Lee and Upshaw. Hard to give it to McCree when I don't think LA Tech has ever defeated ODU while he was on the team. Also, both Lee (at ODU last year) and Upshaw (in the C-USA final last year) hit huge shots in the closing moments of the game that helped their team get the win over ODU.

(11-09-2016 02:22 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(11-08-2016 09:10 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-08-2016 04:14 PM)BlazerGold09 Wrote:  

(11-08-2016 03:17 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Again, appreciate your work. Just going to point out some numbers:

Per 100 Possessions:

McCree 12.8 reb, 2.2 ast, 1.1 stl, 0.9 blk, 27.9 points 103.9 ORtg, 98.4 DRtg
Lee 14.3 reb, 2.5 ast, 1.1 stl, 4.5 blk, 17 points, 110.1 ORtg, 94.6 DRtg
Cokley 16.9 reb, 3.7 ast, 2.3 stl, 1.8 blk, 34.3 points, 125.2 ORtg, 96.9 DRtg
Upshaw 15.8 reb, 4.0 asst, 2.7 stl, 1.5 blk, 25.5 points, 110.2 ORtg, 95.7 DRtg
Combs 18.4 reb, 1.4 ast, 2.4 stl, 1.3 blk, 26.1 points, 117.7 ORtg, 103.7 DRtg
Johnson 15.9 reb, 2.8 ast, 0.9 stl, 1.1, 29.9 points, 125.1 ORtg, 108.6 DRtg
Stith 22.7 reb, 0.9 ast, 1.5 stl, 4.7 blk, 24.3 points, 112.7 ORtg, 90.5 DRtg


There are some outstanding forwards in the conference, but I have a hard time believing Stith is the 7th best with a 24/23 line per 100 possession and a net 22.2 rating. I think you could probably argue he played much of the year on a bad knee as well.

I think a strong case could be made (just based on last year) that Cokley and Stith are the best 2 forwards in the conference.

This is where the subjective aspect of the ranking comes in to play. I considered not only the player's skill set and stats but what they mean to the team's success and how they'll be depended on.

Ten years ago (or so), Major League Baseball attempted to measure subjectivity by inventing a stat: the "game-winning r.b.i.". One of you baseball wonks will need to tell me if that stat is still being measured, but I don't hear much about it anymore.

If there was a comparable measure for the most reliable CUSA big men in the clutch, I have to say that McCree and Upshaw are the two who most tormented ODU in our games.

Just my subjective opinion.

I'd have to give my vote for that to Lee and Upshaw. Hard to give it to McCree when I don't think LA Tech has ever defeated ODU while he was on the team. Also, both Lee (at ODU last year) and Upshaw (in the C-USA final last year) hit huge shots in the closing moments of the game that helped their team get the win over ODU.

You're obviously up late watching election returns.

You're right, Lee also belongs in that group. But McCree is scary good. I'm leaving him on my personal list.

(11-09-2016 07:43 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-09-2016 02:22 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(11-08-2016 09:10 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-08-2016 04:14 PM)BlazerGold09 Wrote:  

(11-08-2016 03:17 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Again, appreciate your work. Just going to point out some numbers:

Per 100 Possessions:

McCree 12.8 reb, 2.2 ast, 1.1 stl, 0.9 blk, 27.9 points 103.9 ORtg, 98.4 DRtg
Lee 14.3 reb, 2.5 ast, 1.1 stl, 4.5 blk, 17 points, 110.1 ORtg, 94.6 DRtg
Cokley 16.9 reb, 3.7 ast, 2.3 stl, 1.8 blk, 34.3 points, 125.2 ORtg, 96.9 DRtg
Upshaw 15.8 reb, 4.0 asst, 2.7 stl, 1.5 blk, 25.5 points, 110.2 ORtg, 95.7 DRtg
Combs 18.4 reb, 1.4 ast, 2.4 stl, 1.3 blk, 26.1 points, 117.7 ORtg, 103.7 DRtg
Johnson 15.9 reb, 2.8 ast, 0.9 stl, 1.1, 29.9 points, 125.1 ORtg, 108.6 DRtg
Stith 22.7 reb, 0.9 ast, 1.5 stl, 4.7 blk, 24.3 points, 112.7 ORtg, 90.5 DRtg


There are some outstanding forwards in the conference, but I have a hard time believing Stith is the 7th best with a 24/23 line per 100 possession and a net 22.2 rating. I think you could probably argue he played much of the year on a bad knee as well.

I think a strong case could be made (just based on last year) that Cokley and Stith are the best 2 forwards in the conference.

This is where the subjective aspect of the ranking comes in to play. I considered not only the player's skill set and stats but what they mean to the team's success and how they'll be depended on.

Ten years ago (or so), Major League Baseball attempted to measure subjectivity by inventing a stat: the "game-winning r.b.i.". One of you baseball wonks will need to tell me if that stat is still being measured, but I don't hear much about it anymore.

If there was a comparable measure for the most reliable CUSA big men in the clutch, I have to say that McCree and Upshaw are the two who most tormented ODU in our games.

Just my subjective opinion.

I'd have to give my vote for that to Lee and Upshaw. Hard to give it to McCree when I don't think LA Tech has ever defeated ODU while he was on the team. Also, both Lee (at ODU last year) and Upshaw (in the C-USA final last year) hit huge shots in the closing moments of the game that helped their team get the win over ODU.

You're obviously up late watching election returns.

You're right, Lee also belongs in that group. But McCree is scary good. I'm leaving him on my personal list.

It's interesting to see how Old Dominion fans think of William Lee. I assume it's because of his performance in Norfolk last season. That was his best game in a UAB uniform by far.

I don't often think of him being "clutch" but I suppose he sort of is. The last two minutes of the Iowa State tournament win was when I became a believe in his abilities.

Really enjoying these writeups! MLE for Rice was just held out as a precaution (as was Corey Douglas). Coach said both would've played if it was a real game.

I think people talk up McCree too much. I would take Cokley if I had to pick any forwards in the conference. Lee and Stith would be up there as well.

(11-09-2016 09:44 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  I think people talk up McCree too much. I would take Cokley if I had to pick any forwards in the conference. Lee and Stith would be up there as well.

IMO Cokley's back to the basket game has the edge but McCree has an outside shot. Lee is a different animal all together. While Cokley and McCree are sort of at their ceilings now Lee is still developing his skill sets.

(11-09-2016 09:22 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  Really enjoying these writeups! MLE for Rice was just held out as a precaution (as was Corey Douglas). Coach said both would've played if it was a real game.

That's great to hear. The James Madison game is extremely important for C-USA and Rice. Road games against similarly ranked foes have to be won if the conference is to move forward.

(11-09-2016 11:03 AM)BlazerGold09 Wrote:  

(11-09-2016 09:44 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  I think people talk up McCree too much. I would take Cokley if I had to pick any forwards in the conference. Lee and Stith would be up there as well.

IMO Cokley's back to the basket game has the edge but McCree has an outside shot. Lee is a different animal all together. While Cokley and McCree are sort of at their ceilings now Lee is still developing his skill sets.

Cokley is a better defender as well.

(11-09-2016 09:01 AM)BlazerGold09 Wrote:  I don't often think of him being "clutch" but I suppose he sort of is. The last two minutes of the Iowa State tournament win was when I became a believe in his abilities.

Lee has been clutch since high school...